Range Rental Suicides

Rent one bring one isn't a good idea. It would put too high of a burden on people trying to get into shooting sports.
I know that most people here, advise posters looking to buy their first gun to go to a range and rent a variety of guns. We shouldn't want to take that option away from them.

The 1/2 hour safety session for first time renters or having the range officer spend time in the booth with a first time renter seems like a more workable solution.
 
Gee, I seriously doubt it. If well trained Secret Service and the police can't keep guys and gals with pistols from walking up close range to Presidents and Presidential candidates and getting off shots (many of which do make contact), something they are trained specifically to be watching out for, then I don't have high hopes for the RO
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You're absolutely right, Double Naught Spy. I spoke with a "well trained" Range Officer and he advised that if someone came to his range hell-bent on committing suicide the only thing that he could do that fellow shooters couldn't do was to get to the phone faster to notify the police/coroner of the poor wretch's untimely demise.
 
There is a fair chance if you try to intervene - you get shot. If you've ever talked to a suicidal person with a weapon, it is an interesting experience.
 
I know of a guy who committed suicide with a 2" .38 back in the 70's. As he lay dying, a female passer-by came to his aid, and he shot her. She died right away, and he died later in the hospital.

I don't see an R/O preventing anything that an alert person working the counter couldn't.

When I was 'smithing, my boss kept suggesting that the owner of the local range install a shower stall on lane #1....
 
I see no difference in gun rental or car rental. A person can commit suicide or homicide with a car just as easily as he can with a gun.

My thought on this is have designated lanes for "suicides only".

The real reason for all of these suicides is the recession, loss of life's savings, and high unemployment. We need to ban Obama, not gun rentals.
 
There is a fair chance if you try to intervene - you get shot.
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I would agree. That is way beyond the duty of the RO and could place his or her life in jeopardy. I’m familiar with all of the (three) ranges in the central Florida area that have experienced recent suicidal shooters. Most of the folks that rent guns (that I talk with) do not own a firearm therefore I don’t believe the Seattle approach would be very workable.
 
Had a guy try to commit suicide three stalls over from me earlier this year. Used a rental M&P. Didn't know anything was going on until he started to fall over. There is nothing bystanders can do to prevent this.
 
" If well trained Secret Service and the police can't keep guys and gals with pistols from walking up close range to Presidents and Presidential candidates and getting off shots (many of which do make contact), something they are trained specifically to be watching out for, then I don't have high hopes for the RO "

When is the last time you saw ONE Secret Service or police officer with the President. You will find dozens of officers and agents there with radios. I don't think this part of your post as anything to do with the subject. A range officer will not be able to contol 6-8 people. There is no way.
 
We had a suicide at a local range recently. The guy was a member who brought his own gun. Obviously he wanted to make it public.

Just a couple weeks later there was another suicide at a local gunshop a couple miles from the same range. He was an employee at the shop and he shot himself in a rear room during business hours. I "knew" the guy as in he was the one who always helped me whenever I went there. As much as it makes me mad that people commit suicide in public I feel for him since I "knew him". He seemed like a nice guy but of course you never know what's going on in their lives.

What is going on? Is it really the economy? :(

I think having an RO is a good thing. For general safety sake. I know I feel better when I see a RO walking back and forth keeping an eye on newbies and wannabe gangsters sweeping their muzzles everywhere.
 
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I think the rule (bring a gun to rent a gun) is a great idea! That seems like a good way to shut this nonsense down.
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Agreed. While some people will still want to make a scene of their actions, it's a way for the range to protect themselves and hopefully give the would-be deceased time to reconsider.
 
The other day, I saw what I thought was an unbelievable statistic: roughly half of all gunshot related deaths in America are attributed to suicide. I had no idea.
 
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give the would-be deceased time to reconsider.

Anticonn, I don’t think time will help. I work part time in a gun store in Indiana and we also have an indoor range. A number of years ago a man came in and rented a gun.
He stayed in the range for over an hour, and then killed himself. The reason he was there so long is that when he came in there were 3 police officers using our range and were in uniform. He waited until they left, which left the range he was in at the time empty, he then shot him self.
The officers didn’t have time to leave the parking lot.
Suicide is a sad terrible act, for the families that were left behind.
Luckily I was not there to see it. The range was closed down for several days for cleanup.
We don’t rent guns anymore.
 
The other day, I saw what I thought was an unblievable statistic: roughly half of all gunshot related deaths in America are attributed to suicide. I had no idea.
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Half? Possible since the range the shot is fired is pretty close to zero distance.

Now what that stat should also consider is the number of suicides by other methods and how many of them in percentage are fatal. Like how many who hang themselves? Or jump off bridges. Or jump off buildings for that matter. And how many try suicide by cop?

It’s sad that in these hard economic times people feel the need to kill themselves. But I doubt if a gun was not available these people would not resort to other ways that are just as effective and actually harder to pinpoint if it was an accident or a suicide (like one car collisions with trees.)

Oh, and have you googled how many other countries have a MUCH higher rate of suicides, yet few guns? Canada, Japan, Germany, Cuba, and lots of other countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

It's not the method, it's the deed we should be worried about.
 
Tuttle8, I have 20 yrs in as a Peace officer, and have worked with a lot of mentally ill/ suicidal individuals, including a off duty Peace officer I knew that was having trouble with his wife,and I went by his house to calm things down and he tryed (with no warning )to take my weapon while we were sitting in my patrol car....I knew this guy,and worked with him and never suspected he would do something like that,(or involve me in it) we ended up having a heck of a fight in that patrol car, and I ended up having to handcuff and take him in on an application for detention. I have had 3 other co workers kill themselves over the years.
There was'nt any indication of that kind of depression on the day they killed themselves. In fact they were in great moods....I guess because they had figured out how they were going to fix thier problems once and for all.
There is no easy fix to prevent suicide, because the ones that have decided
they are really going to, often give no "crying out for help" indicators.
Also, oddly enough suicidal people seem to not want to be alone when they die...hense the public place(I worked one in the women's restroom at the county hospital...nobody even heard the shot from the J frame S&W .38)

A armed range officer may find himself being forced to shoot someone, as some suicidal people would rather you do it for them...(commonly known as Blue suicide) and they are not above shooting you a couple of times to get you to do it.(go figure) I fully support legistation to protect range owners from liability, as its simply going to continue to happen. Nothing is going to
completely fix this situation, as the hardest thing to do is save some one from themself....the killer has access to the victim and all the time in the world.
 
The other day, I saw what I thought was an unblievable statistic: roughly half of all gunshot related deaths in America are attributed to suicide. I had no idea.
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I was about to question that stat till I googled this.
Suicide is still the leading cause of firearm death in the U.S., representing 55% of total 2005 gun deaths nationwide. In 2005, the U.S. firearm suicide total was 17,002, a 1.5% INCREASE from 2004 suicide deaths.
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It was the first hit.
http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm

And more than half of all suicides are by forearm.
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/359/10/989
In 2005, an average of 46 Americans per day committed suicide with a firearm, accounting for 53% of all completed suicides.
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It's not the method, it's the deed we should be worried about.
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I didn't quote the statistic to argue that firearms cause people to take their own lives; only to make the point that if half of all gun-related deaths are directly related to suicide (and, yes, if you mean to end your life with your own hands, a person can find many other methods to accomplish the deed) then the total firearms-related death rate is not a result of accidents, homicide or any other "preventable" cause.

Japan is a good example of a "gun-free" country where the suicide rate is one of the highest in the world (23.8 per 100,000-significantly higher than that of the U.S., where the rate is 11 per 100,000). According to TIME magazine, from January through April of this year alone, 11,236 people in Japan have killed themselves and that each year over the past decade, more than 30,000 Japanese men and women have committed suicide.
 
Buzzcook,

Careful with the stats. As dgludwig points out, Japan pretty much don't have any firearms, yet the off them selves very very often. Far more than here in the U.S.

Like I said, it's not the method, it's the deed we should be worried about.
 
DNS said:
What do robberies have to do with suicides? Nothing. Gee, I seriously doubt it. If well trained Secret Service and the police can't keep guys and gals with pistols from walking up close range to Presidents and Presidential candidates and getting off shots (many of which do make contact), something they are trained specifically to be watching out for, then I don't have high hopes for the RO
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Nothing? Maybe you're not seeing the analagy. And your example does? Attempted murder?

Look, folks. Read my last post again. Range officer PRESENCE COULD, NOT WILL, deter an attempted suicide. I'm not asserting an RO should physically put himself in harm's way to stop it.

Tell me this, Double Naught Spy. You think the incidents would NOT increase if there was NO Secret Service present? Didn't think so. Your example only proves my point.
 
give the would-be deceased time to reconsider.

Anticonn, I don’t think time will help. I work part time in a gun store in Indiana and we also have an indoor range. A number of years ago a man came in and rented a gun.
He stayed in the range for over an hour, and then killed himself. The reason he was there so long is that when he came in there were 3 police officers using our range and were in uniform. He waited until they left, which left the range he was in at the time empty, he then shot him self.
The officers didn’t have time to leave the parking lot.
Suicide is a sad terrible act, for the families that were left behind.
Luckily I was not there to see it. The range was closed down for several days for cleanup.
We don’t rent guns anymore.
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I don't necessarily disagree with you, but if the individual comes to the range with the intent of killing himself, and is denied a rental because he doesn't have his own gun, he then has to make it least back outside to find another means. In denying him one tool, he's forced to search for another. With any luck at all, he may reconsider. Not saying he will, but it at least buys time, and protects the range, its occupants, and management.

Of course if he's really intent on it, he'll be dead on the nearest highway offramp. This policy isn't a solution, but a deterrent.
 
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