Range Rental Suicides

Deaf Smith,I wish having a range officer with someone at all times who rented a gun was possible but it simply is'nt.

With ten stalls or more,the one guy out of twenty thousand that wanted to kill himself would simply wait until the range officer walked to another stall.

Suicide is a very sad thing and the people that become driven to do it often find a way to do regardless of the safeguards put in place.
 
The owners have every right to decide against renting guns.

That said, after personally witnessing one such range suicide, I'd use something much less violent than a gun.
 
The name of the Range is Shoot Straight. they have 2 locations around Orlando, one with a range, the other just the gun store.

There is a giant picture window that most anyone in the store can see into the range (+/- 6 lanes). While there is not an RO in the same room, they can see anything that goes on there. If the store gets busy, their attention may be distracted.

2 suicides in 30 days is more than enough to end range gun rentals. Put yourself in their shoes. Would you want to have to continue to deal with the aftermath of a suicide, both the physical mess, but also the emotional mess?
 
Actually, the suicide at my range did move to the end stall. He had been shooting near the middle, he shot a couple of boxes, then moved to the far left stall. The bullet exited his head and hit the soundproofing wall, no one else was endangered. It was still a mess and we had to replace the soundproofing foam, but there's no doubt in my mind he moved to that location on purpose.

link to short story about it
 
There isn't a range officer on the planet who can prevent a range suicide. That's just not gonna happen.
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Really? Why are there so many incidents of crime at a convenience store for example, yet so few at a gun show?

Do you really think a range officer would be able to prevent a murder/suicide ... let alone actually stop one in progress?
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Yes, I do...just like any other person lawfully carrying a firearm when a crime happens that involves him or the innocent nearby. If you think it would NEVER prevent an issue from worsening, then I wouldn't want to know what your thoughts are on personal carry.

Deaf Smith said:
No, but I would have a range officer in the actual shooting range with anyone who rents a gun, just at the minimum to help them in case the gun jams or an accident.
The presence of a range officer just might keep someone on the edge from actually committing suicide.
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You provided my entire point, Smith. I'm not saying an RO is the end-all be-all answer to preventing suicides/murders. However, the ROs at the shooting range I frequent keep a watchful eye on us. That incident in Florida where the mother shot her son and herself was an example if an RO was presently supervising the line, he/she might have picked up on the body language and fishy positioning. She was further back from the actual firing line when she drew the gun on her son. The RO could have had the chance to see this from the beginning and may have stopped the incident from happening. If you look at the video closely, you can see the subtle hints she was trying to make sure everything was clear and no one was going to interfere before shooting her son. IIRC, she even made sure the guy in the right lane wasn't tipped off. If a RO was there, chances are he/she could have been reading her body language like a store manager does with a shoplifter and prevented it.

I'm not saying a RO will always prevent someone from shooting oneself or another person. But to think they wouldn't be a deterrent is an extremely arrogant statement, IMO.
 
What the range is talking about doing is bringing a note from your spouse/family member that states you are NOT mentally ill. This would require the other person to come in, sign the form and provide a photo ID for copying to go along with all this.........

As to a range officer - if someone is truly bent on killing themselves, they would just wait for that one second where the RO is looking at someone else.......
 
lol. i guess we should resort to how carnivals do it. chain the gun to the bench/lane in such a way you cant turn it around and use it on yourself, and the only way you could kill yourself, is to walk around all the benches, or crawl under to the other side where the gun is pointed

and if someone saw that, they could have enough time to stop them
 
What is a range officer going to do if your going to kill yourself? I've watched that video of that lady shooting her son. She killed him and herself is about a second and a half. The guy is the booth next to him didn't evan know it happen until the end. So a range officer is in contol of six + booths and could stop that. No, don't think so.

Being from Illinois, we have to have a FOID card. This is a ID a person has to have to own or possesse a firearm. To get a FOID card you have to go though a background check through the State of Illinois. This would help with a mental illness thing. (At least every 5 years) Also you can't rent a gun without a FOID card. Out of every one of Illinois's dumb gun laws, 5 bucks every 10 years isn't that bad and will weed out some of the bad weeds.
 
I realize many shooting ranges can't hire a full time RO to babysit everyone there.

But if you think about it, since suicides usually try to be alone, them maybe if just one person comes in, that's the on to keep an eye on unless the management knows the person.

That might be the best that can be done.
 
Around here the indoor range policies are that you can only rent a gun if 1) you are with one or more other people. 2.) You have already brought a working gun to the range. 3) or if you are a member. In all cases all shooters must have ID and be legal age.

tipoc
 
What is a range officer going to do if your going to kill yourself?
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Ask a well TRAINED RO.

I've watched that video of that lady shooting her son. She killed him and herself is about a second and a half. The guy is the booth next to him didn't evan know it happen until the end.
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Doesn't have anything to do with the person in the next lane.

So a range officer is in contol of six + booths and could stop that. No, don't think so.
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If the RO happened to be in the immediate area since it would be one of the lanes he/she is supervising I would say, yes, I DO think so.

Being from Illinois, we have to have a FOID card. This is a ID a person has to have to own or possesse a firearm. To get a FOID card you have to go though a background check through the State of Illinois. This would help with a mental illness thing. (At least every 5 years) Also you can't rent a gun without a FOID card. Out of every one of Illinois's dumb gun laws, 5 bucks every 10 years isn't that bad and will weed out some of the bad weeds.
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Relying on the government (Illinois, no less) to provide effective means to keep one with metal illness from possessing a handgun to commit suicide is pretty scary if you ask me. I'd rather lean towards having a private company with hired help to provide immediate supervision for the safety of others rather than a state that violates their citzens' 2A rights with some idiotic FOID card.

Your statement of not being able to rent makes me take pause. I have to look into this because I don't know if this is true.
 
Tuttle, I see you're on the staff here, and I should probably show more deference, but...that's just crazy talk. It takes less than a second to stick the barrel of a handgun under your chin or in your mouth and pull the trigger. If someone is determined to make that happen, neither you nor any RO on the planet can stop it.
 
Tuttle, I see you're on the staff here, and I should probably show more deference, but...that's just crazy talk. It takes less than a second to stick the barrel of a handgun under your chin or in your mouth and pull the trigger. If someone is determined to make that happen, neither you nor any RO on the planet can stop it.
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Just because I'm a Staff member does not give me a shield for one to attack/challenge my statements.

Yes, attempted suicides like that usually do happen in quick fashion. Like I stated before and I'll say it again, I'm NOT saying it will always prevent a suicide. I'm not even saying the odds are high an RO will prevent the incident from happening. What I AM saying is an authoritive presence CAN deter the situation from escalating to someone taking a life or another. What other point you're missing is SOME would-be suicidal individuals display body language that tip them off.

The stance that no RO present isn't any better than having one present is, in my humble opinion, obtuse.
 
Your statement of not being able to rent makes me take pause. I have to look into this because I don't know if this is true.
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its true, the ranges i go to they keep your FOID at the gun rental counter while your in the indoor range, in fact when i rented a USP they also took my Drivers Licence
 
A lady rented a gun and intentionally shot herself in the head at a local range I frequent with a few months ago. She died later that day. It didn't seem to effect things much. They were closed for a couple of days, then it was business as usual. If people are gonna off themselves, they'll do it one way or another. There's no need to change store policies for that. I think it's incosiderate of a person to commit suicide in a public place. If you must do it at least choose a private place so you only inconvenience your family instead of random people in the general public.
 
What the H#LL happened to taking a handful of pills and dying peacefully, seems today people have to involve others and make a reality show out of it. I feel bad for someone who feels they have to do this, but why traumatize or endanger others?

I do not blame them for closing the range, you can only take so much and guilt starts to set in regardless of it not being your fault. One starts thinking is there something i missed, could I have prevented it, am I going to lose my business in a lawsuit?

Sadly all tihs does is hurt innocent people who just want to have fun shooting and makes guns look EVIL in the eyes of anti's and those who don't understand.
 
Here's a novel idea...how about a Range Officer?
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There isn't a range officer on the planet who can prevent a range suicide. That's just not gonna happen.
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Really? Why are there so many incidents of crime at a convenience store for example, yet so few at a gun show?
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What do robberies have to do with suicides? Nothing.
What is a range officer going to do if your going to kill yourself?
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Ask a well TRAINED RO.
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If the RO happened to be in the immediate area since it would be one of the lanes he/she is supervising I would say, yes, I DO think so.
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Gee, I seriously doubt it. If well trained Secret Service and the police can't keep guys and gals with pistols from walking up close range to Presidents and Presidential candidates and getting off shots (many of which do make contact), something they are trained specifically to be watching out for, then I don't have high hopes for the RO
 
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I agree with Boat, have a plastic lined booth complete with pressure washer set up at the far end of the range- preferrably with a pile of dirt separating it from the rest, as suicidal people are notoriously inconsiderate of pass thru's. Of course have a range officer, he could yell "stop shooting yourself or I'll shoot"!:) Better yet pass a law that if you commit suicide you get hard time in county jail, that'll teach 'em.
 
Show pictures of botched firearm suicides...

... THAT might get their attention.

I know a guy in PNW area who unsuccessfully attempted suicide by 12 gauge. Lost his jaw, nose, upper front palate. Not sure how the reconstruction ultimately fared.

People might think twice if they realized they could actually survive, and then have to live with horrific physical and mental trauma.

However, since I doubt any range is likely to do that, I still think it behooves us as private citizens and voters to get our elected officials to pass legislation protecting businesses from liability so long as they operate in accordance with state law.
 
You can't stop people from killing themselves. If you figure out a way to keep them from doing it with a rental gun what will stop someone from buying a magazine and a box of ammo, going in a gun shop, "looking" at a gun, loading it and doing the deed. Or try to take a LEO's gun. If you get it you kill yourself, if not the LEO kills you. Suicide by cop.
 
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