After reading everything that you all had to say about R.I.P. ammo I decided to just buy some hollow points. I looked at a few different brands I was going to go with the speer gold dots as one of you suggested but I don't think anyone close to me sells those. I also looked at the Sig sauer elite performance ammo but I couldn't find that in the grain I wanted. I was in bass pro shops yesterday and finally decided to just pick up something so I went with hornady custom 180 gr XTP.
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r.i.p. ammo
- Thread starter coyotewsm
- Start date
marine6680
New member
I hear the Sig stuff is not consistent.
Hornady XTP doesn't get mentioned much, but it is a good performer.
Some others to look at.
Federal HST is arguably the best hollowpoints available right now.
Hornady Critical defense/duty are both good performers.
Winchester PDX1 or the ranger line
Gold Dots are a proven design... the new G2 line is not as good as the regular, from the tests I seen.
Remington golden saber
Hornady XTP doesn't get mentioned much, but it is a good performer.
Some others to look at.
Federal HST is arguably the best hollowpoints available right now.
Hornady Critical defense/duty are both good performers.
Winchester PDX1 or the ranger line
Gold Dots are a proven design... the new G2 line is not as good as the regular, from the tests I seen.
Remington golden saber
I didn't really do any research just got tired of thinking about it. I was at the bass pro had a good bit of points on my reward card and saw the hornadys. I knew they were good so I picked them up. Hopefully I'll never have to find out how good they are. But hey I had the cops looking for a man just a half mile from my house friday. They said he was to be considered armed and dangerous so you never know.
I'm sure this is a stupid question but I've seen more than one person talk about this. What does the name of the ammo have anything to do with going to court?
I think any potential jury would have that same question.
That sort of insurance exists, but I'd search for the details rather than take his wordDoes anyone know if this is true?
marine6680
New member
Always shoot a box or two of the ammo to make sure it works well in your gun...
Sometimes you pick up some hollow points, and try shooting them and find your pistol malfunctions... It happens. If it does, you try a different type of hollow points.
Sometimes a pistol just doesn't like a certain type of hollow point. Your buddy with the same gun may find his shoots the same stuff fine.
Sometimes you pick up some hollow points, and try shooting them and find your pistol malfunctions... It happens. If it does, you try a different type of hollow points.
Sometimes a pistol just doesn't like a certain type of hollow point. Your buddy with the same gun may find his shoots the same stuff fine.
Curious, makes a shallow wound? does not penetrate? why wouldn't it make a separate wound channel for each fragment of the bullet. why would the base of the bullet stop on contact and not penetrate? I've always wondered that, especially since the same BS was said about the Glaser and was proven wrong? Each pellet of a Glaser makes a separate wound channel up to 9-10 deep. Why would not the petals of the RIP not do the same? Can anyone show definite proof of such a thing ? or is it a case of " this is what I think, so it must be true"?
wojtekimbier
New member
marine6680 mentioned most, if not nearly all, good SD ammo to take a look at.
OP decided not to buy R.I.P.
Let's just end the thread here, shall we?
OP decided not to buy R.I.P.
Let's just end the thread here, shall we?
Marine. I hadn't even thought about doing that. What would you suggest shoot a couple of 3 or 5 shot groups and see how they group and make sure they don't jam?
RJay. They did do a study I just looked at it today www.thetruthaboutguns.com it was done on the with G2 ammo research R.I.P vs a hornady hollow point bullit. The study showed that the accrual bullit slug performed well under all conditions the petals did very little.
RJay. They did do a study I just looked at it today www.thetruthaboutguns.com it was done on the with G2 ammo research R.I.P vs a hornady hollow point bullit. The study showed that the accrual bullit slug performed well under all conditions the petals did very little.
marine6680
New member
Yes, shoot a few groups at common defense ranges, 5yds, 7yds, and a few at 10yds too. This will teach you how it shoots relative to point of aim at those ranges. Most likely there will not be a huge difference at those ranges.
While you are doing this, you are also evaluating how the ammo functions in your pistol... If it jams or otherwise acts oddly.
On the subject of frangible rounds.
As far as penetration... The RIP rounds have shown in many tests, that the petals do not penetrate more than about 3 inches. They have been tested against simulated ribs as well, and the petals do not penetrate them. The remaining slug does not penetrate well enough either, around 10in at best.
Glasers can perform decently, and have many small wound channels out to 6-7in, and one longer channel out to about 12-13 inches. The problem is they are not consistent... For every decent performance, there is several mediocre ones. If the problems they are designed to prevent worry you, then they are better than most other frangible options.
Another frangible that performs well is the DRT... they perform pretty consistently, more so than the glasers, with decent penetration of the rear of the slug out to 12-13in, and a wide wound track out to about 6-7in.
I recommend standard hollow points whenever you can use them.
While you are doing this, you are also evaluating how the ammo functions in your pistol... If it jams or otherwise acts oddly.
On the subject of frangible rounds.
As far as penetration... The RIP rounds have shown in many tests, that the petals do not penetrate more than about 3 inches. They have been tested against simulated ribs as well, and the petals do not penetrate them. The remaining slug does not penetrate well enough either, around 10in at best.
Glasers can perform decently, and have many small wound channels out to 6-7in, and one longer channel out to about 12-13 inches. The problem is they are not consistent... For every decent performance, there is several mediocre ones. If the problems they are designed to prevent worry you, then they are better than most other frangible options.
Another frangible that performs well is the DRT... they perform pretty consistently, more so than the glasers, with decent penetration of the rear of the slug out to 12-13in, and a wide wound track out to about 6-7in.
I recommend standard hollow points whenever you can use them.
It never hurts to practice at longer ranges, but typical defense use will be less than 10 ydsIs 5 to 10 yards typical of self defense ranges? Should I pratice for longer distances?
marine6680
New member
As distance increases... the claim of the need to use deadly force as the only option... gets less and less believable.
Shooting longer distances is a good exercise in marksmanship though.
Many defensive pistol instructors teach "effective" hits quickly at ranges from contact to 10 yards. Effective being center mass in about 10 inch groups... Speed tends to be considered the most important thing so long as you can make the "effective" hits.
Shooting for groups is also good to do, as it teaches and reinforces fundamentals, which helps develop the skills to be automatic.
Train how you feel works best for you... read and learn.
Shooting longer distances is a good exercise in marksmanship though.
Many defensive pistol instructors teach "effective" hits quickly at ranges from contact to 10 yards. Effective being center mass in about 10 inch groups... Speed tends to be considered the most important thing so long as you can make the "effective" hits.
Shooting for groups is also good to do, as it teaches and reinforces fundamentals, which helps develop the skills to be automatic.
Train how you feel works best for you... read and learn.
Theohazard
New member
Because when a handgun bullet fragments, the resulting fragments are much smaller than a normal bullet and therefore they usually don't have enough energy and momentum to reliably penetrate, whereas a bullet that stays mostly intact will penetrate much more reliably.RJay said:Curious, makes a shallow wound? does not penetrate? why wouldn't it make a separate wound channel for each fragment of the bullet[?]
Rifle rounds like a JHP .223, however, have a whole lot more velocity and energy, and therefore the fragments usually penetrate far enough to cause a massive wound channel and sufficient penetration.
No they don't, not reliably at least. They simply don't have enough energy to reliably penetrate that far in anything except for favorable ballistics gel tests. There's a reason why no major police department uses ammo like that.RJay said:I've always wondered that, especially since the same BS was said about the Glaser and was proven wrong? Each pellet of a Glaser makes a separate wound channel up to 9-10 deep.
For the same reason the Glasers didn't reliably penetrate: Each fragment lacks enough energy.RJay said:Why would not the petals of the RIP not do the same?
Nobody is saying that ammo like the RIP or Glaser never penetrates far enough, it's just that they don't do it reliably. There's a reason why no major law enforcement agency uses pre-fragmented ammo as a duty round.
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The hornadays that you went with are great rounds. The ones with the little flex tip are more consistent, but they all work great. The new Sig bullets are very disappointing, they almost always fail with denim tests, I thought Sig would try to put out a better bullet. Gold dots are nice, federal hst are amazing, rangers and golden sabers are also good contenders. I usually use hornadays for 9mm and gold dot or hornaday for 38/357 and have always been impressed with their consistent expansion
Its expensive but I'm going to try what marine 6680 suggested. Run some through and make sure their reliable. I've ran 130+ fmj rounds through it without failure but from what I've been reading jhp act differently. Going out shooting in a little bit may try to post some pics later. By the way in case anyone is wondering I don't think I've put on it here but I'm shooting a Ruger SR40.
marine6680
New member
Good plan... They do act differently.
And I understand the cost issue. It's why I recommend at least a box or two and not several hundred. I have heard of people who won't trust a pistol for defense use until it hits at least 1000 rounds... At least half of which is their chosen hollow point. Talk about expensive...
And I understand the cost issue. It's why I recommend at least a box or two and not several hundred. I have heard of people who won't trust a pistol for defense use until it hits at least 1000 rounds... At least half of which is their chosen hollow point. Talk about expensive...