Quote of the Day...So now we can really Drop the Whole thing
- Thread starter Wildalaska
- Start date
Playboy, The Democratic party has been moving left of center for decades. Anyone can see this. The moveon.orgs and Michael Moore's have taken the party over. Most Democrats can be easily labeled as liberal (in todays definition). Proof of what Buzz and I are saying can be proven simply by remembering what professional political analysts unanimously declared after the recent election. They said that several of the house and senate races were won by moderate democrats. Democrats right of the rest.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Threegun,
I do not see that. I see lots of people trying to tell me that without any real proof. Where is proof of this?
Seems to me like most of the dems that just won are mods. I thought most dems were far lefties if you listen to people like Rush and other talkingheads. if most dems were far left why did they elect moderate dems. Dems make up the majority of the population so they could elect whoever they wanted.
I do not see that. I see lots of people trying to tell me that without any real proof. Where is proof of this?
Seems to me like most of the dems that just won are mods. I thought most dems were far lefties if you listen to people like Rush and other talkingheads. if most dems were far left why did they elect moderate dems. Dems make up the majority of the population so they could elect whoever they wanted.
Does your knowledge of elections begin with Nov. 7, 2006? The Dems won then because they switched from being liberal to being moderate, at least openly. The Democrats openly rejected the far left positions they'd long associated themselves with, even to the extent of having Pelosi cut back on her discussions of being an open socialist progressive.
In 1994, the Dems had the perfect storm of having openly declared war on firearms ownership, a rather blatant attempt at socializing medicine,and no Republican in the Oval Office upon whom to blame things. So, people decided to kick the liberals out.
Since that time, the Dems have relished their status as liberals. Gore was far from a centrist candidate, as was Kerry. They tried to talk the talk, but their history as limousine liberals was clear fro all to see. That's why the Dems didn't retake Congress in 2000 or 2004.
So, why was 2006 different? For the very reason you state: they went moderate. They rejected the positions that you seem determined to claim were nothing more than Republican propaganda, notwithstanding the fact that these were openly held and promoted by their leadership, party and general membership. They cut back on the class warfare rhetoric, they stopped talking about banning guns, they no longer required candidates to accept each and every principle of the platfrom no matter how liberal (what Schumer meant when he said there was no longer a litmus test for candidates),and they found conservatives.
With all that, their leadership consists of the most liberals members of the party: Pelosi, Schumer, Kennedy, Feinstein, Rangle. Reid and Hoyer are the only ones who might be considered moderate in the group, but only in the modern sense that the center has moved to the left.
Scott Conklin
New member
I read a thread like this and realize why I just don't bother anymore.
Let me tell you what happens from here: For two years the Dems struggle to keep the leftist leadership in line so they can win the White House and consolidate their House/Senate control on a facade of "moderatism". Then the gloves come off. Anyone who thinks gun control and the usual retinue of socialist corruption isn't right their on the scope for these extremists is a fool. About as big a fool as anyone who thinks this election was about Iraq, or was a "victory" for the Dems rather than merely a failure for the Repubs.
That anyone can try to SPIN this as anything other than potential disaster for this nation is the biggest fool of all.
Let me tell you what happens from here: For two years the Dems struggle to keep the leftist leadership in line so they can win the White House and consolidate their House/Senate control on a facade of "moderatism". Then the gloves come off. Anyone who thinks gun control and the usual retinue of socialist corruption isn't right their on the scope for these extremists is a fool. About as big a fool as anyone who thinks this election was about Iraq, or was a "victory" for the Dems rather than merely a failure for the Repubs.
That anyone can try to SPIN this as anything other than potential disaster for this nation is the biggest fool of all.
I guess I'll just have to be a "fool". 
When the President of the Brady Campaign gives up publicly on his own cause, that's a sure sign that there's no threat.
Rather than pulling a Chicken Little act over a non-existent short-term threat, you should be concentrating on defeating the very real long-term threat.
Here's a freebie: Name-calling isn't helpful.
When the President of the Brady Campaign gives up publicly on his own cause, that's a sure sign that there's no threat.Rather than pulling a Chicken Little act over a non-existent short-term threat, you should be concentrating on defeating the very real long-term threat.
Here's a freebie: Name-calling isn't helpful.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
buzz_knox,
I don't want to call your acount of previous elections into question, but do you really believe that dems got pushed out because of a "leftist agenda"??? You mention socialized medicine as one of the reasons but if I remember correctly polls showed that over 70% of Americans were in the pro catagory on that topic routinely.
And why shouldn't someone relish their status as a "liberal". That is like saying someone should not be proud of the fact that the are open minded and willing to see more than one side of an issue. You need to let go of your drilled in belief that liberal is a bad word and start realizing the difference between leftist and liberal.
it just irks me when people think you are bad if you believe in the populist ideas and believe that people can work together for positive change without being anti-gun. The far right finds it hard to sell "they are going to give you free health care, help provide higher education for your children, make it easier for you to make a livable wage, and then try to clean up the enviroment" so instead they have to try and focus you on "they are going to take your guns and allow gay people to get married".
I don't want to call your acount of previous elections into question, but do you really believe that dems got pushed out because of a "leftist agenda"??? You mention socialized medicine as one of the reasons but if I remember correctly polls showed that over 70% of Americans were in the pro catagory on that topic routinely.
And why shouldn't someone relish their status as a "liberal". That is like saying someone should not be proud of the fact that the are open minded and willing to see more than one side of an issue. You need to let go of your drilled in belief that liberal is a bad word and start realizing the difference between leftist and liberal.
it just irks me when people think you are bad if you believe in the populist ideas and believe that people can work together for positive change without being anti-gun. The far right finds it hard to sell "they are going to give you free health care, help provide higher education for your children, make it easier for you to make a livable wage, and then try to clean up the enviroment" so instead they have to try and focus you on "they are going to take your guns and allow gay people to get married".
Wildalaska
Moderator
Im just a fooo-oooo-lll..alalalalalalalala!
WildcroonerAlaska
WildcroonerAlaska
Yeah - I love all this "free" stuff - that WE have to pay for, that the government has to become ever more involved in, and that the people will have ever less self-control over. I love those who tell me THEY are smarter, and THEY know better on how to spend OUR money.
You continue to paint yourself as a wisened individual, with an open mind and a generous heart, studying all sides of the issues before making the ideal decisions. And YOU may be right - about YOU. Unfortunately - again that ideal is not the current widely held defintion of 'a Liberal'. Now MAYBE the ideas of "liberal" and "conservative" don't have much meat to them, and indeed they may not evoke specific issue positions or policy disagreements. But there HAS been an aligment. So whether the current view of 'liberals' comes from a general concensus developed when choosing sides, or from Rush and Hannity, or even from the GOP, it is what it is. You have to stop seeing your associated GROUP as the ideal bastion you visualize, and instead see it as it really is, what it really stands for, who it stands with, and who it gladly embraces to represent them. (Moore? Dean? Sharpton? Sheehan? Gore? Rosie? Pelosi? Kerry? Kennedy? Boxer?)
No matter how far the recognized leftists/progressives/liberals pretend to move to the right, no matter how they try to temporarily repaint themselves as "moderates", no matter how they agree to talk less of an unpopular issue just to win elections, they will NOT change their true nature, and so will remain more socailist, more selfish and more elitist.
AT the same time, there will always be those further on the right who also study the issues, who want to do good, who have open minds and open hearts, who don't forget or ignore history, who recall the benefits of self-responsibility, values, patriotism, capitalism, small government, strong military, faith, and all the other free ideas that have made this country great. Generally, they call themselves Conservatives.
You continue to paint yourself as a wisened individual, with an open mind and a generous heart, studying all sides of the issues before making the ideal decisions. And YOU may be right - about YOU. Unfortunately - again that ideal is not the current widely held defintion of 'a Liberal'. Now MAYBE the ideas of "liberal" and "conservative" don't have much meat to them, and indeed they may not evoke specific issue positions or policy disagreements. But there HAS been an aligment. So whether the current view of 'liberals' comes from a general concensus developed when choosing sides, or from Rush and Hannity, or even from the GOP, it is what it is. You have to stop seeing your associated GROUP as the ideal bastion you visualize, and instead see it as it really is, what it really stands for, who it stands with, and who it gladly embraces to represent them. (Moore? Dean? Sharpton? Sheehan? Gore? Rosie? Pelosi? Kerry? Kennedy? Boxer?)
No matter how far the recognized leftists/progressives/liberals pretend to move to the right, no matter how they try to temporarily repaint themselves as "moderates", no matter how they agree to talk less of an unpopular issue just to win elections, they will NOT change their true nature, and so will remain more socailist, more selfish and more elitist.
AT the same time, there will always be those further on the right who also study the issues, who want to do good, who have open minds and open hearts, who don't forget or ignore history, who recall the benefits of self-responsibility, values, patriotism, capitalism, small government, strong military, faith, and all the other free ideas that have made this country great. Generally, they call themselves Conservatives.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Once again, my response to a statement like this is...Prove it.
Back up what you are saying with real world examples. So far everything people have been saying in this vein is the same rhetoric that comes from talking heads on the radio daily with no real factual basis.
If someone asked me to prove why I feel that the republican party abandoned me and how they are only the shills for big oil and industrial interests and how they do not respect the rights of the average citizen I could come up with several examples.
And these example would not be citing the deeds of special interest groups or the statements of individuals or small contingents.
no matter how they agree to talk less of an unpopular issue just to win elections, they will NOT change their true nature, and so will remain more socailist, more selfish and more elitist.
Once again, my response to a statement like this is...Prove it.
_____________________________________________________________
No need to prove it; time will tell the tale.
John
Once again, my response to a statement like this is...Prove it.
_____________________________________________________________
No need to prove it; time will tell the tale.
John
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The article compares Dean to the more liberal Sharpton and Kucinich for their support of gay marriages and Kucinich's Department of Peace. "Maybe they'll stop writing that I'm too liberal to be elected,'' Dean said with a grin. "It's nice to be a centrist for a change.
Bill Press had a chance to sit down with Democratic frontrunner Howard Dean. Is he too liberal to lead the party?
My Senator and Me reeks of liberalism from its very first sentence: "If you want to serve your country, Washington, D.C., is a good place to be." That's especially true if you equate serving your country with expanding the size of government, violating the principles of federalism, destroying local control of public schools, preening for the liberal press and delivering sanctimonious speeches. Because that's what Kennedy has spent his time in Washington doing, and that's what this book is about.
House Democrats have stood fairly united since the 2004 election. But under the surface lie deep fissures between the caucus's liberal Pelosi faction and its moderate Hoyer faction
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Well known liberal Rosie O’Donnell used the shooting at an Amish school in Pennsylvania as a springboard to promote gun control.
Al Gore is quietly working to foster the creation of a liberal media empire, it was reported
Nationally, 42% of voters called Gore a liberal
Liberal Barbara Boxer now chairwoman of Senate environmental committee ...
"Bob Casey... almost as liberal as Barbara Boxer.
A very revealing look into the political motivations of ultra-liberal protester Cindy Sheehan as she calls terrorists “freedom fighters” while being interviewed by CBS
Kerry rated most liberal member of Senate
[Jesse Jacson’s] anti-corporate message captivated the very college-educated, left-leaning, white activists who this year flocked to Dean
Sharpton set out to define this year's Democratic race as Jackson defined the one in 1988: As a battle between liberal activists and Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) moderates
on gay marriage, both Kerry and Edwards are avoiding direct answers and will not distinguish between gay marriage and civil rights and why it is okay for states to decide gay marriage but the federal government decides civil rights
He refused to answer the question of who it hurts and what was wrong with it. This is a problem for Kerry because it underscores the underlying concern that he can be on all sides of an issue.
The article compares Dean to the more liberal Sharpton and Kucinich for their support of gay marriages and Kucinich's Department of Peace. "Maybe they'll stop writing that I'm too liberal to be elected,'' Dean said with a grin. "It's nice to be a centrist for a change.
Bill Press had a chance to sit down with Democratic frontrunner Howard Dean. Is he too liberal to lead the party?
My Senator and Me reeks of liberalism from its very first sentence: "If you want to serve your country, Washington, D.C., is a good place to be." That's especially true if you equate serving your country with expanding the size of government, violating the principles of federalism, destroying local control of public schools, preening for the liberal press and delivering sanctimonious speeches. Because that's what Kennedy has spent his time in Washington doing, and that's what this book is about.
House Democrats have stood fairly united since the 2004 election. But under the surface lie deep fissures between the caucus's liberal Pelosi faction and its moderate Hoyer faction
Democrat John Murtha's dramatic pre-Thanksgiving call for a rapid withdrawal from Iraq. Within days, Pelosi had endorsed Murtha's plan
Liberal donors on the fund-raising circuit constantly tell her that Democrats are timid on Iraq. "She's been catching a lot of heat on the road," says the senior House aide. Pelosi has even been taking flak in her district for her relatively low profile on Iraq. "Pelosi has played it safe, placing politics and fund-raising over policy and conscience,"
Well known liberal Rosie O’Donnell used the shooting at an Amish school in Pennsylvania as a springboard to promote gun control.
Al Gore is quietly working to foster the creation of a liberal media empire, it was reported
Nationally, 42% of voters called Gore a liberal
Liberal Barbara Boxer now chairwoman of Senate environmental committee ...
"Bob Casey... almost as liberal as Barbara Boxer.