Quote of the Day...So now we can really Drop the Whole thing

"The Murtha thing was idiotic. She spent a lot of political capital on a losing proposition and she knew it from the beginning. It may be loyal but it was stoopid."--AirForceShooter

I still cannot for the life of me figure out why she did this. She had to know the vote count, and she had to know the whole thing was a loser with a large down-side for her "professionally" as the new Speaker. What in the world was she thinking?
(Asked, BTW, as a government teacher, NOT as a supporter of her anti-RKBA views.)
 
If they resist the leftist leadership, campaign support via endorsement appearances and war chest allocations might be hard to come by when it's time to run again.
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Could be, if that leftist leadership is suicidal. Which is quite possible, but I wouldn't count on it. Looking at it from another perspective, that leftist leadership has to weigh whether it is better to have a nominally conservative Democrat who caucuses with said same leftist leadership hold the office or a similarly conservative Republican in that office who does NOT caucus with said leftist leadership. One enables that leadership to operate from a majority status, the other does not. Hey, if they want to do an ideological purity purge right from the get-go, that's fine with me in the long run -- they are only cutting their own throats.

It wouldn't bother me at all if the freshmen Dems were to become one term wonders, as long as the Pubs in general have learned their lessons in the process. Besides that, it would be an opportunity to get some new blood into the Pubs, they need it. OTOH, the added presence of those nominally conservative Dems will, if they stick to their campaign promises, go a long way towards pulling the Dems back to the center, making them into something resembling a viable patriotic opposition party which is a good thing.
 
gb-
One of the best grounded, insightful, common sense statements I've seen since the Election. It may play out one way or t'other, as you point out, but one thing is for certain: the sky is definitely not, for certain, falling.

Thanks-
Rich
 
gb in ga,
Not really anything left to say except +1. We get the added bonus of the Republican purge, which IMO is long overdue.
Both parties will emerge from this better suited to represent the American people. That's definitely a good thing.
 
If any of you for one second believe that the Demoncrats will abandoned their antigun platform completely you are wrong. They despise the NRA and will not stop until all guns are gone. They might be slowed by those who remember the 2000 election but they will never stop. Once the taste of power becomes old they will get back to their core beliefs......banning guns. They will first get back at Bush for "stealing" the 2000 election with endless investigations. Then they will push for renewal of the Brady bill. They got it once and feel it will be accomplish-able. Only this time they will correct the loop holes.

I will be buying mags like crazy. When the ban hits you nay sayers can buy them at triple the price. If the ban never hits, when the republicans regain power, I can sell them to get my money back.
 
Nope, but we do know that they are not suicidal.
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One would think not, however, Charlie Rangel has announced he is going to introduce legislation to reinstate the draft.

With seven out of ten Americans being totally against it being reinstated, one would think Rangel would not have announced that.

But one can never underestimate the extremist the propensity of the extremists on either the left, or the right, for governing against the will of the People.
 
One would think not, however, Charlie Rangel has announced he is going to introduce legislation to reinstate the draft.
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A perfect example of how members of the CBC as committee chairmen will want to make everything all about race.
 
One would think not, however, Charlie Rangel has announced he is going to introduce legislation to reinstate the draft.
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I, for one, am not at all surprised that the "Lunatic Left" part of the Dems (including but not limited to Charlie Rangel, Jack Murtha and Nancy Pelosi) are doing what they are doing. I expected them to do this, and it plays right into the hands of the Pubs in the long term. The chances of what Rangel is proposing actually passing both houses and then getting signed into law are slim indeed. While at the same time, he is supplying copious sound bites for the Pubs to use in the '08 campaign. While I feel that he/they is/are obligated to make such outlandish proposals as meeting their own campaign promises, it is still just grandstanding. What I'm waiting for is for the "cooler heads" in the Dem party to start talking some sense to him/them. Eventually, even their own constituencies get tired of them, witness what has happened to Cynthia McKinney.

What is more important is what the incoming freshmen "Blue Dog" Dems do. Because for the most part they will determine what legislation actually passes (note -- not what is proposed, but what actually passes), they have the swing votes. They will either vote as they promised their constituents or they will kowtow to their leftist leadership. One path leads towards a centrist movement within the Dems (ultimately a good thing), the other leads towards leftist marginalization within the Dems which will ultimately doom them.
 
Yeah, right. Some folks just don't live in California.
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I have said for a long time that our only chance of success is not to make an "us vs. them" situation out of gun control. If we decide to just throw in with the republicans and have it be a single party issue we will fail.

The majority of the population or dems and we need to realize that. We need to work on making positive gun ownership a bipartisan issue. Too many people want to cling to conservatives even though they have really done little to help us. They had the house, senate, and executive branch for 6 years. What major anti-gun laws did they repeal?

We need to work harder on promoting a good image for gun owners across the board and be quick to step up and denounce bad gun owners. A 45 year old guy in another story chose to escelate a situation by following a 16 year old punk into a parking lot after the kid chalenged him at his place of employment instead of calling the cops like he should have done. This ended up in him shooting and killing the 16 year old punk. The thread immediately had people praising the 45 year old man's irresponsible behavior with statement like "taking out the trash" and him "standing up for himself". This makes all gun owners look bad and irresponsible when we fail to condemn this behavior.

California is an example of where improper gun use went to such an extreme that anti-gun laws were able to take hold because every punk was carrying a weapon and every day people where being shot in drive bys and on streets. Maybe if the NRA, GOA, etc had put more time and effort into trying to stop mass gun sales and illegal gun sales and made a point to be visiblly trying to help the problem instead of just freaking out every time someone mentioned a gun control bill and showing up with beer bellied, walrus mustached protestors people could have felt more comfortable that something was being done and not needed to go to the extremes they have gone. Instead they gave the appearance of not caring about the problems these people faced but instead only caring about their own desires. They won no sympathy from the common man.

The gun laws were put in place mainly to give LEOs a reason to arrest a gang banger or thug. If nothing else they could stop themm on suspicion of gun possesion and arrest them just for having them before they actually killed someone. If more of a bipartisan effort could have been put into ending the real problem maybe things would not be as bad as they are now and leftist metality would not be prevailing.
 
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We need to work harder on promoting a good image for gun owners across the board and be quick to step up and denounce bad gun owners.
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Amen to that. In terms of our own little world, this is the main reason why TFL Staff have a rep for being heavy handed. The goal of this site was never to be a ClubHowze for conspiracy nuts, Constitutional incompetents, Angry White Guys and armchair warriors. They do little to promote Responsible Firearms Ownership and, in fact, give the fence sitters something to be appalled and repelled by.

Rich
 
he goal of this site was never to be a ClubHowze for conspiracy nuts, Constitutional incompetents, Angry White Guys and armchair warriors. They do little to promote Responsible Firearms Ownership and, in fact, give the fence sitters something to be appalled and repelled by.
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Rich there are times that I just love you (in a decent, manly way of course)...

WildoforthewholeworldtobereasonableAlaska
 
California is an example of where improper gun use went to such an extreme that anti-gun laws were able to take hold because every punk was carrying a weapon and every day people where being shot in drive bys and on streets. Maybe if the NRA, GOA, etc had put more time and effort into trying to stop mass gun sales and illegal gun sales and made a point to be visiblly trying to help the problem instead of just freaking out every time someone mentioned a gun control bill and showing up with beer bellied, walrus mustached protestors people could have felt more comfortable that something was being done and not needed to go to the extremes they have gone. Instead they gave the appearance of not carrying about the problems these people faced but instead only caring about their own desires. They won no sympathy from the common man.
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BS dude. Illegal gun sales???? Improper gun use???? Both are illegal already. The NRA has been pushing for enforcement of existing gun laws for decades. What we do know is that Kalifornia in General is a liberal haven. Liberals refuse to punish law breakers or assign blame to individuals committing the crime. Kalifornia didn't go gun control crazy because of any individual gun owners looking weird nor did the NRA have anything to do with it. Refusal to punish law breakers by ignorant liberal politicians voted in by a high percentage of ignorant liberal voters is to blame.
 
What we do know is that Kalifornia in General is a liberal haven.
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The fact that you spelled california with a "k" gives me a good idea where you are coming from. There is a reason the leftists have been able to take control in some areas. You might want to think more about what I said and not be so reactionary.

PS: Calling people ignorant is a great step towards winning allies.
 
There is a reason the leftists have been able to take control in some areas.
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Yeah you said its illegal gun sales and criminal misuse of firearms. I disagree and listed why. Bottom line is that strict gun control exist only in highly liberal areas. Crime is everywhere. So maybe its the liberals as I pointed out

PS: Calling people ignorant is a great step towards winning allies.
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I have learned that liberals cannot be won. They can't be reasoned with. Anyone willing to pass a law banning guns, which the criminal by his very title will not follow, is either ignorant or desirous of banning weapons from law abiding citizens.



I use the K because Kalifornia is the closest thing to Russia in the United States. I make no attempt to hide my dislike for Kali.
 
What is more important is what the incoming freshmen "Blue Dog" Dems do.
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There aren't many. I see a number of references implying that there is this great new wave. I do know that there are 10 new pro-gun Democrats, based on ratings, not performance in Washington. That is a total of 26 pro-gun Dems in the House and only three in the Senate, all freshmen (Tester, Webb, and Casey).

There are other measures of conservatism. In fact there is a rating but it ignores the gun question, favorably rating for conservatism those rated F on guns.

So anyway, it would appear that Blue Dog hardly equals pro-gun. You may not have intended to imply that, but the context on a gun forum should be kept very clear.
 
Yeah you said its illegal gun sales and criminal misuse of firearms.
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If that is what you think I said then I suggest you re-read my post and think a little harder.

I have learned that liberals cannot be won. They can't be reasoned with
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I am starting to doubt you have never dealt with a liberal in your entire life if you really think this. Liberals by definition can be reasoned with and are easy to win over if you present a good argument. You might want to learn the difference between a leftist (or righty or any other extremist) and a liberal.
 
Playboy:

Amen on your third from last post.

I know this will sound like heresy, but just what if the system worked as it should this last election. The dems moved to the center and have to stay there and the pubs muzzle the fundies and neocons long enoug to get this country out of Iraq, regaining our world prestige and forcing Bush to start at least reading the Constitution of the United States.

Hey, it could happen.

Kowboy
 
I have learned that liberals cannot be won. They can't be reasoned with.
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Actually, I've learned otherwise. I've found that taking a liberal shooting can really change his/her attitude about firearms.
 
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