Question about handgun hunting

How do you harvest ???

In my opinion you should use the best firearm to do the job as humanely as possible. A handgun is definitely not the best choice of firearm to do that.
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First off you qualify your reply as an "Opinion" which is well and good. Then you list another as a fact which has been debated and by my measure, false. .. :rolleyes:
It's a fact that the death of any animal, may be swift but seldom without pain and some degree of suffering. That is what I believe and teach. What I would ask you to comment on, is;

Is it ethical to shoot a deer with "any" rifle?
Is it ethical to shoot a deer with "any" handgun?
It is ethical to shoot a deer with "any" Bow?

Our state has defined the usage of all three and as long as it's legal by their qualification, it's ethical, in my book.

I would also ask if you are against killing animals or just the means? .... :confused:
Do you harvest your protein in the field or SuperMarket? .... ;)

Be Safe !!!
 
.....Sever the spinal cord or make a brain shot..... The lungs are the largest target and most humane way to kill something......
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Then it seems a shot to the lungs or head are the ideal with the former being the easier to achieve.

My position has consistently been to make those types of shots to minimise suffering and as part of that avoid picking a weapon one is insufficiently competent with.

Ultimately, it is the hunter who has to decide if they are sufficiently competent and so I hope each is realistic, mature and honest enough with themselves to make the right choice based on their actual abilities and a respect for their quarry.
 
I would also ask if you are against killing animals or just the means? ....
Do you harvest your protein in the field or SuperMarket? ....
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I am not against killing animals for food, or if a fox was eating my chickens etc.

Is it ethical to shoot a deer with "any" rifle?
Is it ethical to shoot a deer with "any" handgun?
It is ethical to shoot a deer with "any" Bow?
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Yes it is ethical to shoot deer, but not with any rifle one that has the muzzle energy to do the job as humanely as possible.

I wouldent choose a handgun. For the reasons, a rifle is more accurate and has more muzzle enegery than most handguns.

The only time I would regard a bow as a suitable tool is in a situation that firearms were not avaible.
 
I'm arguing it's not stupid, it's just another method of hunting,
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.....but it may be stupid for him. Does not make it stupid for the rest of us. This is where you win the argument. There are many folks out there that do not have the skills or patience to successfully hunt with a handgun. This is where it's probably a foolish idea for them to enter the field with only a handgun as their primary weapon. Many folks do not yet have enough kills under their belt to really appreciate the challenge of hunting deer with a handgun only. Thus again, handgun hunting would be a foolish proposition for them.

Hunting and the pleasure derived from it, is as individual as we all are. While to some hunting over bait or with the use of dogs is stupid, to others it is tradition and a big part of the hunt. As long as one hunts legally, ethically and humanely, there is no argument as to which is superior or which is stupid.
 
Just because an animal can be killed with something doesn't mean its the best tool for the job. How quick can you get a second shot in with a bow compared to a firearm. Can the animal not move on hearing the arrow being released. It wont hear a high velocity bullet coming. What advantage does a bow have over a firearm, apart from being quieter.
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The statement had nothing to do with "best"

Quote:
Archery can kill animals every bit as quickly and humanely as rifles.
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I'm not going to play 20 questions with you just because you don't know much about archery.

I'll just say I've killed deer with muzzleloaders, rifles, handguns, shotguns, and arrows, and they all performed equally
 
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Snyper is right on. doesn't matter what you use as long as you are proficient
with your weapon.I'm good using a 357 mag and also a bow/arrow. Just depend on where/what and when. All the rest is babble IMHO.
 
Your "friend" apparently is convinced of his categorical opinion. Since this is a belief, and seemingly impervious to alternative arguments - e.g., bowhunters & muzzle loaders routinely and humanely take game, some older hunting cartridges used for generations are less powerful than many modern handgun cartridges, etc., etc. I would assume he is also opposed to using rifles with iron sights, if he is consistent.
Don't bother with arguing; you will never convince him he might be wrong. Everyone is entitled to have foolish opinions
 
I just got out of an argument with a friend of mine over handgun hunting, he's taking the stance that it's "stupid" based around arguments like "better tools for the job", his rather intense hatred of "machismo", and some political gun control nonsense.

I'm arguing it's not stupid, it's just another method of hunting, but conceding to the fact that there are superior choices for hunting; but I find that ultimately irrelevant in this day and age. Killing is killing whether it's from 25 yards with a pistol or from 400 yards with a high powered rifle, a dead deer is a dead deer.

I don't get this kind of hard headed stance. I'd be more inclined to agree if hunting were a necessity in a person's life. But hunting has pretty much become more of a leisure activity than a necessity or way of life for the majority of society.

But even then, if a person is successful with a handgun as a hunter, what exactly about that makes it "stupid"?

Thoughts?
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My take is that by your questions, neither you nor your friend have much of an undertstanding about hunting, and why we enjoy doing it, and seem be focused on the false presumption that its all about killing a deer.

That it is any more or less humane than other weapons is silly. It's about knowing and staying within the effective range of the weapon, and the effective range of the shooter with that weapon. There are lots of 500 yard rifles out there being carried around by 100 yard shooters.

The typical handgun hunter prefers the added challenge of having to be a better hunter to get the closer shot, and the better shooter to extend his capabilities. Yes, there are better "tools" for the "job" if you think of hunting as a job that requires tools. To the handgun hunter, it's a combination of the love of pistol shooting, and the desire to be a part of nature and matching woodsman skills with the other creatures that call it home. For me its the personal challenge of using all of my natural instincts and skills to get close enough for the clean kill shot. A 250 yard shot across a field with a scoped rifle on a padded rest from the back yard will put meat in the freezer, and some might even consider it a great hunting experience, which I am not knocking, but it doesn't fulfill MY desires for an enjoyable, sporting, and challenging hunt.
 
Ding, ding, ding!!!!! = TimSr you are the man!

My take is that by your questions, neither you nor your friend have much of an understanding about hunting, and why we enjoy doing it, and seem to be focused on the false presumption that its all about killing a deer.

That it is any more or less humane than other weapons is silly. It's about knowing and staying within the effective range of the weapon, and the effective range of the shooter with that weapon. There are lots of 500 yard rifles out there being carried around by 100 yard shooters.

The typical handgun hunter prefers the added challenge of having to be a better hunter to get the closer shot, and the better shooter to extend his capabilities. Yes, there are better "tools" for the "job" if you think of hunting as a job that requires tools. To the handgun hunter, it's a combination of the love of pistol shooting, and the desire to be a part of nature and matching woodsman skills with the other creatures that call it home. For me its the personal challenge of using all of my natural instincts and skills to get close enough for the clean kill shot. A 250 yard shot across a field with a scoped rifle on a padded rest from the back yard will put meat in the freezer, and some might even consider it a great hunting experience, which I am not knocking, but it doesn't fulfill MY desires for an enjoyable, sporting, and challenging hunt.
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I could not have summed it up any better!
 
Good post TimSr. That sums it up for me as well.

Why handguns for hunting deer? Sport, challenge, greater feeling of achievement with successful hunt, gives a reason for putting all those big bore rounds down range, no particular thrill for me any more shooting a deer at 100 or 200 yds with a scoped rifle.... Success is measured for me by the enjoyment of the hunt not the kill.

But, some can do it with a handgun at those ranges and it is nothing like laying a rifle down on a rest and putting the cross hairs on the front shoulders of a deer and pulling the trigger.... nothing like that at all as even from a good rest with a handgun, the handgun is seldom motionless. Takes skill to make a shot like that with a handgun. Wish I had that skill.
 
Whats all this talk about muzzle energy???

It doesn't take metric tons of energy to effectively put a bullet/arrow/bolt through the boiler room of pretty much any of 4-legged herbivores inhabiting this continent.

In NY, the only restriction on white tail is that you cannot use rimfire or shotguns/rifles with barrel length of less than 18". (no mares legs or sawed of shotguns boys). So yes, a 22-250 is legal in NY to hunt big game with. A 243 is legal. Any centerfire is legal all the way up to 50 BMG (if you are that hell-bent on killing a deer with one).

It's no secret that 22 LR is often the weapon of choice for night-time spotlighting poachers, at least in my area. But wait!!! 22 LR doesn't have enough energy to kill a deer, does it??!!

All of this talk about muzzle energy and yadda yadda yadda is boloney. I am not a bow hunter, it's not my thing. But I don't go around urinating in the cornflakes of every bow hunter I come across because there are "better tools for the job" than their bow.

The only thing that matters is if the user takes an ethical shot and can put that shot through the boiler room. And a shot that may be ethical for one person may not be for the next. "Ethical" varies from one person to the next based on the skill set of the individual and the weapon he uses. Heck, if I am sneaky enough, I can make an ethical kill with a baseball bat.

I don't even know why you waste your time admiring someone who thinks handguns are inherently bad because they were designed "specifically to kill people"... Ask him when he plans to move in with Diane Franken-Feinstein.
 
In my opinion you should use the best firearm to do the job as humanely as possible. A handgun is definitely not the best choice of firearm to do that.
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In my opinion, one should strive to kill as humanely as possible with the weapon chosen. It might be a bow, muzzleloader, rifle, shotgun or handgun. Each weapon has its limitations and each hunter has his or her limitations. The ethical hunter knows the limitations and strives for as humane as possible kill given those limitations. A hunter that only takes twenty yard shots on deer with with her handgun because she knows that is her range limit for accurate shots is more ethical than the fellow who lobs rifle rounds four hundred yards at deer when he can't keep two out of three shots in ten inches at one hundred yards.
 
I think one thing our friends across the ocean might not realize is the big bore pistol cartridges developed specifically for hunting big game here in the US. The My .454 Casull has more energy than many of the rifles you use, and does not require bullet expansion to make the same size pass through hole. Within my range of proficiency, (100yards) it is more effective than a .308 rifle. I double shoulered (also doubled lunged) a 300 lb black bear at 75 yards that dropped, and was not breathing by the time I walked to it. When first introduced the .454 was used to take cape buffalo, and even elephant in Africa. Thompson has made handguns for years that shoot rifle rounds. Now we had a 460 (stepped up 454) 480, 500, all up to par with .308, 30-06 or better rifles.

I'm cutting you all a lot of slack for cultural differences, and a lack of understanding of what might seem odd since you don't experience it as much where you are, but I think if you had the opportunity to go out with some experienced handgunning hunters, and witnessed their effectiveness first hand, you would have a different opinion. Believe me, some of your practices seem "foreign" to us also. :D
 
It's about knowing and staying within the effective range of the weapon, and the effective range of the shooter with that weapon. There are lots of 500 yard rifles out there being carried around by 100 yard shooters.
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In my opinion, one should strive to kill as humanely as possible with the weapon chosen. It might be a bow, muzzleloader, rifle, shotgun or handgun. Each weapon has its limitations and each hunter has his or her limitations. The ethical hunter knows the limitations and strives for as humane as possible kill given those limitations
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An ongoing discussion I had for many years with a local outdoors writer, Hunter Education program director, and Department of Conservation investigator. The base of said discussion was the modern in-line, inclosed primer fired, powder pellet fed scope mounted, saboted bullet firing 200 yard "muzzle loader".
His contention was that he was using the most effective firearm for a clean, and humane kill.
My contention was that I do. With an exposed hammer, percussion cap fired loose black powder fed rifle firing a patched round ball. But I did it at a distance under 100 yards where I had confidence in it's performance, and my ability. Not trying to extend a muzzle loader to ranges similar to modern centerfire rifles.
As it turns out, now it is a mute point because the Department of Conservation has evidently observed the demise of real muzzled loader hunting by the modern hi tech equipment, and replaced it with an alternative methods season where not only muzzle loaders, but cartridge firing hand guns can be used. So now if I want to I can use the same TC Contender, Ruger Super Blackhawk, or Glock G20 I sometime use during the regular firearms season.
 
I know what you mean Cheapshooter.

Back in the mid 90's when my father and I first got into muzzleloading here in NY, it was round ball and patch only, no optics of any kind.

The second year in, they allowed the use of projectiles other than round ball. And then a short while after that, optics were allowed..

Muzzloading sure is a different sport now it seems. But they still do not allow any cartridges of any kind... Heck, they still go so far as to prohibit the carrying of any modern handgun, even for protection..unless it's a single shot muzzle loading pistol... No cap and ball 6-guns allowed even..

I have stuck with my old TC Renegade. I get funny looks when I ask for loose powder around here and even funnier looks when I tell them why... Reason being that I cannot use pellets or wedges that in-lines do...
 
@TimSr: I'll be the first to admit I'm not a hunter, I've been hunting only a few times in my life and the only time I've killed a deer is when I hit one with my car. But I fully understand why people hunt, I don't think hunting is one of those things that you have be be into to understand the why of it.

Personally I just like handguns more so than I do rifles. And if I were to ever take the notion to go hunting I like the idea of just taking something I have, and I'm familiar with the operation and limitations there of; rather than going to a pawnshop or gunshop and putting down $300 - $500 for a "proper" (sarcasm) hunting rifle, plus ammo and getting it sighted in.

But, that's just me. I don't really have the hunting spirit, but I understand it.
 
No you don't. Without the spirit, there can't be understanding. Knowledge and acceptance do NOT equal understanding.
 
JSAW,

About this "better tools for the job" thing.

Well there is bow season and muzzle loader season were they allow weapons that have been eclipsed by the rifle. And so the handgun. Why?

Hunting is more than just killing. Part of it is enjoying the woods, part of it is the challenge of taking the game, and part of it is collecting the food.

It's the challenge we are interested in here. A handgun, especially a iron sighed weapon, is a challenge compared to a rifle. You have to get closer and be more skilled.

And that is the challenge.

So he is wrong. It's not the tool, it's the hunter and his skill being pitted against the game.

The gun below is my hunting arm. I rarely use my rifle now days.

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Yes I pass up shots. Yes I have to practice more. But yes, it is a challenge, a challenge to kill the game quickly without undue suffering.

Deaf
 
The only thing stupid about handgun hunting, in my opinion, is stretching the distance beyond your own accuracy. For me, in actual hunting field positions, that's about 60 yards, and I limit my gun choice to .41 or .44 Special or Magnum. Gotta say it, we owe our quarry a killing shot, and a quick, merciful death. Wounding is not and never should be an acceptable choice, no matter what. Rod
 
The only thing stupid about handgun hunting, in my opinion, is stretching the distance beyond your own accuracy. For me, in actual hunting field positions, that's about 60 yards, and I limit my gun choice to .41 or .44 Special or Magnum. Gotta say it, we owe our quarry a killing shot, and a quick, merciful death. Wounding is not and never should be an acceptable choice, no matter what. Rod
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And that applies to any weapon. There are people who take rifle shots that are just to long or running shots they are not equipped to take.

Bow hunters that take shots way past their skill level. Same for muzzle loaders. Same for duct hunters.

Keep inside your skill level and you will be fine.

Deaf
 
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