Query about Cowboy Action Shooting and Caliber?

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Prof Young

New member
Cowboy Shooters:

As I look at my collection it occurs to me that I have two of the guns one might use for Cowboy Action shooting. A single action six gun and a lever action rifle. BUT they are both in 22 LR.

How goes it in the world of Cowboy Action shooting? Are there rules about caliber? Is there a "purest" ethic that it all must be authentic?

Talk to me?

Live well, be safe
Prof Young
 
I have the same guns as you do , it is cheaper for me to go shooting with the .22 but i ask the same question you did ??
 
Mr. Haggen is correct, again.

SASS rules mandate that revolvers and rifles be chambered in pistol calibers between .32 and .45. The most popular chambering is .38 Special, with .45 Colt in second place.

From time to time someone will suggest that local clubs create a special category in which people can shoot .22 caliber rifles and pistols. I have heard that some clubs have done so. Frankly I doubt that it would increase participation.

If you came to my club and wanted to shoot but lacked the proper hardware I expect that someone would offer to share their guns with you so that you can play along.

I can load .38 Special ammo for about the same or less as I would pay for .22 LR ammo, WHEN I can find any.
 
Go ahead and show up at some matches, they'll welcome you to at least be a spectator, and maybe even loan you some guns so you can sample the sport.

After seeing some matches, you'll see skills you might be able to practice on your own until you can get properly equipped.
 
What I thought!

Thanks for the info. That's kind of what I thought. I do have a lever action rifle in 45 colt. It's a henry with the octagonal barrel and may be a touch heavy for action shooting.

Will have to explore this "sport" a bit further.

Live well, be safe
Prof Young
 
You may not know it, but you've hit on a very touchy subject. Last summer I shot a Steel Challenge match where I entered both a centerfire pistol and a rimfire pistol. Steel Challenge bends over backwards to accommodate shooters. If you're a SASS shooter, you can shoot your revolvers and they follow all the SASS rules with regard to gun specifications. It's a lot of fun.

I drove across the shooting complex to watch the cowboys. Many of them were shooting very downloaded .38's so I asked about the possibility of using some single action rimfire revolvers and a rimfire lever gun along with a 12 gauge.

WOW! The people I were talking to went from very friendly to fairly cold. One guy was downright rude. It was a very odd situation. When I got home I found the SASS on-line forum and asked the same question. I chose each word very carefully. The response was downright rude. There were a small number of people that tried to explain things to me, but the rest were just plain nasty.

SASS has a NASCAR feel to it. It's a commercial organization owned by people out to turn a buck which is fair enough, but holy moly, don't even ask or wonder out loud about changes to what they are doing!

I would guess that a large percentage of those .38 shooters would trade their centerfires for rimfires if the change was allowed and that doesn't seem to sit well with some.
 
WOW! The people I were talking to went from very friendly to fairly cold. One guy was downright rude.
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SB, I think you could have gotten more positive reaction if you mentioned you have no interest in shooting Hi-Vel .22 LR but would only want to compete with CB caps.

CB action is in desperate need of a power factor and a minor/major thingy, but that's just me.
 
From the Shooter's Handbook:

REVOLVER CALIBERS

Must be centerfire calibers of at least .32 caliber and no larger than .45 caliber or percussion calibers of at least .36 caliber and no larger than .45 caliber.

Must be in a caliber commonly available in revolvers. Examples include, but are not limited to, .32-20, .32 Magnum, .357 Magnum, .38 Special, .44 Magnum, .44-40, and .45 Colt.

Standard velocity .22 caliber rimfire ammunition is allowed within the Buckaroo Category only.

Although the .32 caliber revolvers and .36 caliber cap and ball revolvers are legal, they may not be powerful enough to handle all reactive targets.

RIFLE CALIBERS

Must be centerfire of at least .32 caliber and not larger than .45 caliber.

Must be in a caliber commonly available in revolvers. Examples include, but are not limited to, .32-20, .32 Magnum, .357 Magnum, .38 Special, .38-40, 44-40, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, and .45 Colt. The only allowed exceptions are the .25-20 and .56-50. No rifle calibers such as .30-30 or .38-55 are allowed.

Buckaroo/Buckarette Category competitors choosing to utilize .22 caliber firearms must use standard velocity .22 caliber rimfire ammunition only.

A power factor has been in force for a few years now:

The minimum standard for center-fire ammunition used in all smokeless categories in all SASS matches State, Regional, National, International, and World Championship Competitions is not less than a minimum power factor of 60 and no velocity may be less than 400 fps. The maximum velocity standard for revolvers is 1000 fps. The maximum velocity standard for rifles is 1400 fps. Pocket pistols, derringers, and long-range rifles are exempt from the power factor and velocity requirements.

One thing that makes CAS shooters get a bit hot under the collar is folks wanting to join and change the rules right away, or change the rules without joining at all. All shooting games have rules. You can't show up at a SASS match and shoot your S&W Model 10. Don't have centerfire guns? If you want to play, you must shoot centerfire. That's in the rules, and believe me, it has been debated over and over again for years.

I would guess that a large percentage of those .38 shooters would trade their centerfires for rimfires if the change was allowed and that doesn't seem to sit well with some.
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That's your opinion. I have been shooting CAS for over ten years now, and I have never heard anyone say that. And some of us elect to fire large calibers loaded to the gills with Black Powder, just because we can.
 
From viewing videos on youtube, I'm the perfect candidate for hangin with the cowboys. I'm old, fat and would dress up like Howdy Doody if none of my friends saw me...wait a minute, I don't have friends. My only objection would be shooting next to someone with a .32 cal. @ 550fps. My hat is off to the C&B shooters, the guys shooting full loads of BP or smokeless and if they needed something for the girlies, I don't mean the women, then have a separate class.

I'm not interested in changing any rules, even tho I own a Colt and Uberti SAAs an Uberti 73 copy half dozen C&B revolvers, a '92 copy, trapdoor and other period shooters, my interest in CB shooting disappeared years ago, but along with other things, everyone has an opinion.
 
I shoot classic cowboy class, requires more "cowboy outfit" & larger bore guns ( I use 45 Colt, loaded to mid power level ) I have a pair of Rugers, a lever action rifle ( not a carbine ) a shorter barreled double barrel 12 ga shotgun ( but longer than a standard coach gun ) by choice...

I just keep a spread sheet to see that my times are improving, I try to shoot "clean" which slows me down a little, & pay attention to the tips other faster shooters offer on how to shoot my equipment faster... I'm not concerned with the gamers, shooting light 32 loads, putting short stroke kits in their carbines, or slicking up an proper pump action shotgun & working on the ammo handling technique needed to shoot one at race pace, I guess I refuse to get sucked into "the dark side" of the game...

I've set MRS up to shoot as well... was going to start her on 32's for the revolvers ( I have a pair of 32 Single Sixes ) but was able to trade for a pair of 357 Vaqueros, the lever gun I have for her is a 357 / 38, ( she shoots mid level loads of 38 Special in all her guns ) & it's lots easier to just have one ammo to deal with... both of our gun sets are set up to shoot the same ammo for both the revolvers & the lever guns... just for ease... I used to shoot against a gal, who was using 2 different calibers in her revolvers, because that's what her husband had for her to use... it's legal... just more hassle to carry an extra ammo box to the stage area... ( plus shooting 2 different calibers in un-matching guns must have been more challenging for her with different weights, barrel lengths & recoils, between her revolvers )

BTW... just because you are lacking in gear, that doesn't mean you can't play along at home, with what ever you own... I suggest going to a couple matches at your local club, & copy what they are doing the best you can, at home, to practice... pay attention to details like patterns shot, target positions & distances from the shooter, etc.... I have my own steel targets, same size & design as the local club uses... I bought my own Pact shot timer... now MRS can practice at home, to get a lot of those newbie jitters out of the way at home... a couple safety warnings ... lighter loads of cast bullets should only be used, as they are safer than jacketed bullets when shooting steel ( even though my targets are AR-500, they are designated "lead use" only... targets should not be cratered, & should be angled down, to safely shoot at the close ranges used at a CAS match... at home, I use a big tin can set in a painted square rather than knock down targets, for the shotgun... I don't like getting hit by all the shot bounced up when using a knock down target ( I think the local club should consider something similar, as a lot of people complain about getting hit with bouncing shot ) always wear eye protection with side covers if possible, like a regular pair of safety glasses, & wear your hearing protection, & over all, be safe...

It's amazing how much your speed will improve with both home practice, & going to matches... the 1st year I shot, my times at the end of the season were literally 1/2 what they were when I started
 
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there's two ways to look atthis.
#1 CAS was set-up to be as realistic as possible. The way it was with real full size gear and guns. Calibers as they exhisted back when...
#2 The rules of CAS are set-up tokeep guys in Leviss with Ball caps, and Single Sixes out of the game. It's a self appreciaton society. The realism they try to upholdmeans shooters must look and live the part. Sure there were .22's back then but the guys who wrote the rules decided that if you want toply, you;re gonna pay. It keeps the dreges of the shooting world OUT of the game.
Frankilly, I thnk there ought to be two games to play. One, a full blown. 45 totin boot wearin crowd dedicated torealism and the old west wa of life.Secondly, the rimfire group should be able to wear straw hats, shoot rimfiresandholdcosts to a minimum while still upholding the flavor of the old west.
The problem is that it will never happen! The realists will shun the low cost crowd, say they're mesing the targets up etc.since the sport involves real firearms, I am sure that in at least one circumstance a fight will happenand gunplayculd happen.
There is no middle road. You can dress cowboy and just go tothe range and go shooting, and then you could gofull house and become someone from the past!
Actually I have watched this debate and friction develope within my ownSportsmans Club. We have a VERY NICE, dedicated Western town for CAS and noone except members who are also CASmembers and participants may use the town and ranges. Yea the double members did a lot of work putting the town together andactiong their own CASpersonalitys out. Heck I see the most friendlyguys become real asses when they dawn their cowwboy outfits!
If you read the rules, you are supposed to become your alternate personality! In some cases I have seen some real bad desprados!
It's alla game but heck, they are paying top dollar to play, so they want it their way!
Too bad for working stiffs like me whoonly have one Vaquero, because you HAVE to have two to play...
Got it?
I honestly think CAS will kill itself off and 3 gun competitions willreplace CA. Three gun only requires one handgun, one rifle and One shotgun. You may dress in shorts or Levis and wearing tennis shoes.
It's modern, real world gufighting, the type yoy may run into on todays streets.
There is rules but they are more reasonable.
Within 10 years noone will even remember CAS! They aredoing it to themselves but they want the most REALISM and if you don't play the game this way, you don't have REALISM!
In my Club I see acertain number of dedicated players, not many new members, and shooters joining thetrap groupandmaybe someday we;ll have 3 gun events.
good luck guys
ZVP
 
CAS has been around since 1981 and I don't see it going away any time soon. There are tons more CAS clubs than 3 gun. Heck there's not a 3 gun match within 500 miles of me and I doubt I'd be interested if there was.
 
ZVP said:
there's two ways to look atthis.
#1 CAS was set-up to be as realistic as possible. The way it was with real full size gear and guns. Calibers as they exhisted back when...
9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 acp are legal cartridges in most categories.
#2 The rules of CAS are set-up tokeep guys in Leviss with Ball caps, and Single Sixes out of the game.
Single Sixes are perfectly legal in all categories except Classic Cowboy and Frontiersman. Levis are legal in all categories.
It's a self appreciaton society. The realism they try to upholdmeans shooters must look and live the part. Sure there were .22's back then but the guys who wrote the rules decided that if you want toply, you;re gonna pay. It keeps the dreges of the shooting world OUT of the game.
It may have existed, but there weren't any western cowpokes who carried such a thing. Because the Borchardt C93 came out in 1893, should Glocks, Sigs, et al be allowed too?
Frankilly, I thnk there ought to be two games to play. One, a full blown. 45 totin boot wearin crowd dedicated torealism and the old west wa of life.
That would be NCOWS.
Secondly, the rimfire group should be able to wear straw hats, shoot rimfiresandholdcosts to a minimum while still upholding the flavor of the old west.
Straw hats are allowed in every category except Classic Cowboy and B Western. Many clubs allowed rimfires after the ammo and reloading component supply dried up... then .22's disappeared. If .22's were allowed as main match guns, the more competitive shooters in the game would still not switch to them, simply because mainstream rimfire ammo isn't all that reliable.
The problem is that it will never happen! The realists will shun the low cost crowd, say they're mesing the targets up etc.since the sport involves real firearms, I am sure that in at least one circumstance a fight will happenand gunplayculd happen.
There is no middle road. You can dress cowboy and just go tothe range and go shooting, and then you could gofull house and become someone from the past!
Actually I have watched this debate and friction develope within my ownSportsmans Club. We have a VERY NICE, dedicated Western town for CAS and noone except members who are also CASmembers and participants may use the town and ranges.
Members of shared ranges tend to much less careful with props and targets from other disciplines. "Hey, let's set these nice steel cowboy silhouettes up at 50 yards and unload a few mags of .223 on 'em."
Yea the double members did a lot of work putting the town together andactiong their own CASpersonalitys out. Heck I see the most friendlyguys become real asses when they dawn their cowwboy outfits!
I've shot CAS for a couple decades in several states, and I've never, ever witnessed this.
If you read the rules, you are supposed to become your alternate personality!
What?? This is right out of the book: Each participant is required to adopt a shooting alias appropriate to a character or profession of the late 19th century, or a Hollywood western star, and develop a costume accordingly. This is such a broad description that it defies definition. "Character" doesn't mean someone who actually existed; it just has to be appropriate to someone who would have fit into the times.
In some cases I have seen some real bad desprados!
It's alla game but heck, they are paying top dollar to play, so they want it their way!
I can put together a set of four NEW, SASS legal guns that will come in under $850. Pietta 1851's are currently on sale at Cabela's for $149.99. An NEF Pardner 12 ga can be had for under $150.00. A Rossi 1892 can be had for under $400 - I just bought a .44 mag, new in box, for $397 including shipping. That comes to $846.98.
Too bad for working stiffs like me whoonly have one Vaquero, because you HAVE to have two to play... Got it?
All games have rules - you don't play hockey with golf clubs because you don't have a hockey stick. You don't go bowling with a basketball because you don't have a bowling ball. Many clubs offer a "Working Cowboy" category where only one revolver is required. I'm also pretty sure the only category that may actually require two revolvers is Gunfighter. A shooter can have only one revolver and take five misses on each stage or reload the single revolver on the clock. From the book: No more than two main match revolvers may be carried to the firing line. Nowhere does it state that two revolvers are required. Also from the book relating to B Western: All of the revolver(s) must be carried below the top of the gun belt. The s being in parentheses certainly implies one revolver is legal for the category. For that matter, even gunfighter doesn't specifically say two revolvers, but it DOES say two holsters. Double duelist style shooting is legal in gunfighter, so shoot the revolver empty with your left hand, reload it, and shoot it empty with the right hand.
I honestly think CAS will kill itself off and 3 gun competitions willreplace CA. Three gun only requires one handgun, one rifle and One shotgun.
CAS is way, way bigger than Western 3 Gun or NCOWS
You may dress in shorts or Levis and wearing tennis shoes.
Levis or denim pants are perfectly legal, and lace up boots such as Ariats are legal in most categories.
It's modern, real world gufighting, the type yoy may run into on todays streets.
There is rules but they are more reasonable.
Within 10 years noone will even remember CAS! They aredoing it to themselves but they want the most REALISM and if you don't play the game this way, you don't have REALISM!
CAS is bigger now than it has ever been.
In my Club I see acertain number of dedicated players, not many new members, and shooters joining thetrap groupandmaybe someday we;ll have 3 gun events.
good luck guys
ZVP
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Cowboy Action Shooting is as much about the genre and romance of the old west as it is about shooting. Although there will always be competitive people in any sport, it tends to be a much less competitive shooting sport and clothing & accouterments are a big part of the game. It tends to be more of a social event than a competition; an alternative to playing golf on the weekends or Bingo at the Legion Hall. There are other shooting disciplines where shooters can use one revolver, such as Western 3 Gun, and there are other sports where shooters can use semi-auto pistols and shotguns. If Cowboy Action isn't your thing, then find the game that is instead of trying to change it to your own liking. I've heard people say, "I'd shoot CAS if I didn't have to wear the goofy clothes." (Levis and a western style shirt are perfectly legal in most categories.) or "... if I could shoot .22's."... or "... if I could shoot my SP101." In other words, "I'd come and shoot the game if it wasn't Cowboy Action Shooting".
 
A very small percentage of shooters are comfortable getting out and competing in front of other shooters. Thus, it is easy to find something they don't like about any of the competitions so that they can avoid the comparison to other shooters. Then, to top it off they feel free to criticize those who do compete, downplaying their abilities. Mark
 
9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 acp are legal cartridges in most categories.
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You gonna have to 'splain that one to me Jbar. To say those are "in a caliber commonly available in revolvers" is really stretching the definition of "commonly available."

Single Sixes are perfectly legal in all categories except Classic Cowboy and Frontiersman.
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The large majority of Single Sixes are .22s, which is not approved for anybody but Buckaroos (children.) The few .32 Single Sixes are hotly pursued by the recoil averse. I did meet one guy who delighted in loading .32s to the absolute maximum, he tried for 999 fps in revolver, 1399 in carbine.
 
I should sell my matching pair of polished white grip stainless 32 Mag Single Sixes... as I don't shoot them often enough to keep them from getting dusty... but so far I haven't been able to part with them... ( keep thinking I'll find an old Marlin in 32 Mag for a reasonable price, while I have a fist full of dollars ) :rolleyes:
 
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