Pushing the envelope a little... (Prostitution)

We have examples here in the USA. On cable not too long ago there was a show about the Mustang Ranch, and the girls that worked there. For the other side of the coin, watch the news.


Just how messed up are we with our legislating morality regards prostittution?

Any adult man that is caught having sex with a 14 year old girl (even consensual) is typically charged with child molestation. Right?

Unless she accepts money for the sex (sexual activity that she may be forced into by a pimp) in which case she typically gets charged with prostitution. Then she is dumped back out onto the street to be returned to the same pimps and more prostitution, instead of being taken off of the street and rehabilitated as any child should be. If the man is charged at all it wont be for child molesting.

There is so much wrong with this that it boggles the mind, yet it is quite common.
 
Butch

I find that pretty hard to believe. I am a Californian, I know Texas is much different in there laws. But that is very weird.

maybe Lead can clear this up he seems to be on top of the law.

Harley
 
Again, the laws vary by state.

Generally speaking, in the scenario where a 14 yr old girl is a hooker, and she is caught with a "john" the girl would likely be taken custody of by the state and placed in protective care, drug rehab, etc. whatever is appropriate for the situation. The "John" would also be arrested and cited for solicitation of sex or immoral acts, and also could be charged with sex with a minor which is generally termed statutory rape (b/c she is not old enough to legally consent; most state consent laws are around 15-18 years old, depending on the state). Statutory rape is a BIG deal. Because it's a strict liability crime, there is no defense. Either you did it and are guilty or you didn't do it and are not guilty.

+1 USP above, that's exactly, I mean exactly how I feel about it.
 
Child Predator Crackdown: City Goes After Johns Who Have Sex With Kids
by Alison Soltau, of The Examiner staff
Originally published by The San Francisco Examiner, July 14, 2003

Men who have sex with child prostitutes in San Francisco will be prosecuted as sex offenders in a landmark attempt to halt The City's growing problem of youth exploitation.

Cops have arrested one alleged john and say there are more to come.

The City has always had laws on the books to prosecute men who solicit child sex workers, but in the past they were never enacted because the men were hard to trace, and the children reluctant to testify because they were under their pimp's spell, said Insp. Ken Stocker.

For the full article:
http://www.vachss.com/help_text/a2/sf_pros_children.html
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One alleged john (in 2003 hopefully there are more by now) and how many child prostitutes (of either sex) in SF in 2003? And how about that euphemism "child sex workers"? Isn't that a lovely concept?
(NYC) Law enforcement officials have been frustrated by the juvenile code. Under the current statutes, a girl younger than 16 who's picked up for turning tricks can only be ticketed for "loitering for the purposes of prostitution." After a hearing, she can also be classified as a person in need of supervision, or PINS, the lowest level of youth offenders. Once a girl becomes a PINS case, she can be put with a relative or in a group home. The problem is that many girls run back to their pimps—and away from help—before a judge can consider their situation. http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0229,loinaz,36571,1.html
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I wasn't talking about Texas specifically. I had heard a couple of news stories coming out of NYC recently that mentioned that child prostitutes were being treated as prostitutes and not victims themselves. The NYC prosecuting attorney was on a campaign to get the laws tightened up and to set up a means of helping the children caught up in prostitution.

I also used the age 14 as an example, however child prostitues of 12 years old are apparently not uncommon in NYC, and in CA there does appear to be some magic to a girl turning 15, making prosecution for child molesting more difficult, yet how much more of an adult is a 15 year old over a 14 year old?

I imagine that any large city has the problem - pick up a hooker that looks 18 and how hard do they try to determine her real age? She may be 12 and look like 18. Pick up a john with an 18 year old looking prostitute and what happens?

My overall point remaining that if prostitution were legalized child prostitution would decrease.
 
As long as abortion and sodomy are considered legal due to "privacy" rights, it is my opinion that prostitution should also be legal. I've also wondered how pornography can be legal while prostitution is not. Are not the "actors" in these movies being paid to have sex?

On the other hand, if you took your video camera down to the red light district and offered someone $100 to appear in your "movie", can you be arrested for soliciting for prostitution? If Michael Moore can make movies, anyone can.
 
Politicians also practice prostitution, the 2 oldest professions are quite similiar. Sadly the oldest profession, prostitution, seems to be the more honest of the two. Sex and nudity are more open in Europe and since it isnt taboo as here in America I think it is less flaunted. As far as the legal side like most anything else it boils down to ones moral compass. Though not legal in the U.S. but in one area of nevada, there are escort services which from my limited Law Enforcement experience are protitution services. I also note that most law enforcement agencies do not pursue them like street hookers as these services seem to be discreet.

Though not legalized it would seem it is allowed or accepted in this format and a blind eye policy is applied. I think that the street hookers like drug dealers being in the open cause the public to apply pressure and in some cases assist law enforcement in removing them. Also law enforcement wishes to rid the streets of them as they breed crime and suffering. Citizens property value decreases and ones safety is at stake.

Some say it is a victimless crime, but when a person spends money that is taken from their family that is needed or one contracts a disease and spreads it, it is anything but victimless. There is an argument it would reduce rape but I have yet to see any evidence and would be curious if this is so in parts of europe where prostitution is legal.

As far as ones body being their own, then why shouldn't cocaine, pot, and heroin be legal, its the same philosophy? We have to draw the line somewhere and obviuosly as a society the line is each persons own moral opinion and the law steps in as the deciding medium. I think if one is willing to pay for sex they can find it in a discreet arena. Personnaly I am not sure how gratifying it would be to pay for sex with someone you dont have feelings for, being married almost 35 years I still enjoy and cherish the intimate relationship of my wife. I feel if one has the need to find it on the outside then the relationship is baseless and its time to move on.
 
Also law enforcement wishes to rid the streets of them as they breed crime and suffering. Citizens property value decreases and ones safety is at stake.
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The crimes and suffering were bred not by the prostitutes, but by the laws causing the prostitution to be illegal. That creates a black market (since making prostitution illegal has no impact on how much prostitution is engaged in) and that black market creates ancillary crime.

Some say it is a victimless crime, but when a person spends money that is taken from their family that is needed or one contracts a disease and spreads it, it is anything but victimless.
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By that logic I could argue that Bass Boats should be illegal - as the spending of money on a Bass Boat is taking money from the family for foolishness. Contracting diseases from a prostitute in a legal system is less likely (far less likely) than from a prostitute in an illegal system, so by that argument alone prostitution should be legalized to reduce victimization.

As far as ones body being their own, then why shouldn't cocaine, pot, and heroin be legal, its the same philosophy?
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Yes, they should be legal too, after all tobacco and alcolhol are and we all know how absolutely dangerous those are.

Personnaly I am not sure how gratifying it would be to pay for sex with someone you dont have feelings for, being married almost 35 years I still enjoy and cherish the intimate relationship of my wife. I feel if one has the need to find it on the outside then the relationship is baseless and its time to move on.
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BINGO! You have just stated the real reason for legislation of morality - The FEELING that the act is baseless. Have you considered that some people are not as lucky as you have been in your marital relationship? How about the guy out there that is say so ugly that the only sex he can have (without force) is through payment? Do you think that he has no need for that sex, or that it isn't gratifying sex to him? Or how about the woman who is so fat that the only sex she can get is by paying for it? Do you think that those moments of gratification are not of any value because they don't fit into your concept of what she should feel?

How about the double amputee that lost his legs in a war to serve the interests of our Country? Should he be allowed the pleasures of sex? What if the only sex he can obtain is by payment, should that be denied to him?

Forcing others to act in specific ways based upon how you (and I say you generically now) feel they should act causes massive human suffering, for no reason other than you feel good about forcing people to act the way you think they should in situations where no one is hurt and yet both people are adults, and both people are consenting voluntarily to the act, and the act is taking place in private, and without you even knowing about it.

The victims that you see, are in your mind only. These feelings of yours represent what has created millions of real victims that would not otherwise exist.
 
Butch,
You are making a lot of sense.
In regards to the statutory rape charges, do you not need a plaintiff willing to press charges? With no parent involved, and a young girl who just wants out of the grips of the police, I don't understand how charges can be pressed. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Xavier:

I don't know, I don't have any legal training in the criminal area. I always thought though that statutory rape can be prosecuted just like many crimes can be, by the prosecutor without having to wait for a parent or legal guardian to make a complaint. I always thought that statutory rape was applied where both parties were consenting, but one was under age and therefore the consent wasn't meaningful.

Maybe someone actually knows the law though and will set that straight.
 
Legislating morality has nothing to due with religion, your Socialist and
Combloc countries are even fiercer when it comes to enforcing moral codes
and conformity, especially since they don't bother will little niceties such as
due process of law and the rights of the accused.
 
Legislating morality has nothing to due with religion, your Socialist and Combloc countries are even fiercer when it comes to enforcing moral codesand conformity, especially since they don't bother will little niceties such as due process of law and the rights of the accused.
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I have no idea what motivates other countries, but here in the USA legislating morality stems from our strong traditional Christian ethos. In communist countries the laws are not necessarily a reflection of the populace at large, but more likely a reflection of the totalitarian govt.

Here in the USA the laws are a reflection of the voters both past and present. It is screwed up something fierce here though - imagine a State that allows adult consensual sex of any kind, and even allows same sex marriage ~ but prohibits consensual sex ONLY IF cash is involved? How weird yet real is that?
 
What am I doing here, an old geezer, happily married all these years, never messed around on wife?

As a youngster in West Texas I knew that many of the hotels and walk up hotels were in fact brothels. Once a year they would be raided, the women fined $250 bucks for prostitution and back at work the next day. Ditto the bootleggers. I have to assume that the law knowing human nature and knowing that the so called decent section of society wanted a cleanup did all this for show. Perhaps they were paid off.

Rapes, sexual crimes and preditors were rather scarce, Mexico was near and its prostution was known widely and youngsters burned the highways back and forth, VD was a factor in Mexico although the danger was ignored by all.
Sexual crimes and teen age American pregnacy were at a minimum.

Now in places like Dallas prostitutes walk along highways, herpes and aids are
always there, as well as dope by the women doing that to get more dope for doing what they do. Who says things are getting better?
 
To me, Prostitution is like Pornography to which is it is a sibling. Sounds
Great in Theory But Not In Practice. Over the years I have read numerous true crime books, a number of which deal with serial killers who often prey on
prostitutes because they are easy targets and generally not missed. About 95% of the photos of them show women who are so ugly they could make a
freight train take a dirt road, to use a phrase I heard years ago. Likewise a few years ago I saw a copy of Adult Video News, the trade publication of the
porno industry. Of all the women portrayed I saw maybe 5 who were attractive, the rest YUK!
 
I'll tell ya fellers; as to the police busting hookers, here's how that works: John Q. Public stops at a stop light, at which time Ms. Hooker walks up to the car window and says "Hey honey, looking for a good time?". John Q. gets upset (especially when Ms. Hooker looks like she'd been rode hard & put up wet) and calls his councilman and complains. Mr. Councilman brings it up in a council meeting and a memo is sent to the city manager, who sends a work order to the chief, who tells me to send out the troops & bust hookers. We snag 10 or 15 (usually released on recognizance due to lack of jail space), the newspapers make a big deal out of it, the hookers are back at it an hour later, and John Q. Citizen is happy... until the next time. Then the loop starts again. I don't consider it the most heinous crime of the century, but as it is now, it's not always a victimless crime either. Ours is not a big city, but we have more than our share of hookers. All would make a dog look attractive, and every one (literally) is hooked on crack, meth, heroin, and/or whatever. They are all users and desperate for money (more than a $25 trick). The result is that we have a LOT of John's robbed, with some shot or stabbed. The other thing is that, while the health dept. won't give us the actual figures, we are guessing that at least half are HIV, Hepatitis C, or both, positive, and that, they don't advertise to their customers. Bad for business. So while the world's oldest profession may or may not be OK, I don't think the "extras" that come with the basic job is. If you regulate the business, that will probably add a higher class act, with more expense, but it won't stop street hookers and the hazards that come with them.
 
This thread has been an interesting read. ;) I believe it started out on cops and their sting operations and has progressed from there to moral issues. :rolleyes: I won't address them all, because I can't remember them all, but I will make a few comments anyway.

First, when it comes to "sting" operations, it is my personal opinion that it is ENTRAPMENT and the last time I looked, entrapment was a violation of the Constitution. :mad:

Second, someone said the Mustang ranch was in Las Vegas. Nope. It was in I believe Nye County which is just south of Reno Nevada. FWIW, Prostitution is illegal in Washoe (Reno) and Clark (Las Vegas) Counties. This is because of pressure by the U.S. Air Force ( Stead A.F.B. Reno, which has been shut down for years, but the law remains.) and Nellis A.F.B. (Las Vegas) Prostitution is legal in all the other Nevada Counties.

Third, someone commented on whether legalized prostitution would cut down on the rape rate? I think it would. Case in point. One small Nevada town had five legal brothels going. A new rompin' stompin' holy roller type preacher came to town and started a campaign to close the cathouses down. he was successful. A town that had maybe one rape a year was now having several cases of rape a month. It took six month to get the houses open again and the rape rate dropped to virtually zero. That's a matter of recorded fact. Does one case such as this prove a point? Who knows?

Fourth. Why would a guy go to a prostitute? Well, maybe because after going out with some woman, spending a lot of money on a fancy date, he doesn't "get any". :( Now, I'm not saying that he should expect anything, but he apparently does. :rolleyes: So rather than go through a lot of rigamarole in order to get some, he goes to a hooker and knows he gets what he wants. maybe, it's a case where he wants certain acts that he can't get at home, like oral sex. Whether it's a case of he's too shy to ask his wife, or it's something she refuses to do, it is something he want and isn't getting. Enter the hooker.

In California, I understand that at one time, for forcible rape, it was a mandatory death sentence and mandatory life in prison for statutory rape. Things sure have changed. If a guy does an underage girl, he goes to jail, but if an adult woman does a 14 year old boy, it's OK. Their thinking is the girl can get pregnant but the boy can't. :barf: Oh well. What can one expect from the land of friuts, nuts and flakes?

I guess in Europe and the Orient, sex is considered a perfectly normal part of life, where in this country, a bunch of religious kooks have decided that not only is sex obscene, but the human body as well. Maybe they should consider that the obscentiy they abhor so much was also the means that brought them onto this earth in the first place. Maybe tyhey are the true obscenity.
Paul B.
 
It seems that as far as legality goes, prostitution is illegal due to the motivation behind the act, not the act itself.

Consider - two consenting adults can have sex legally, if no money is involved. If the motivations for both partners is love or lust or curiosity or what have you, it is legal. If the motivation is profit for just one of the partners, it is then illegal.

One or both partner can legally have any motivation that they want to have except profit. And this in a capitalist country - go figure.

Isn't it strange that we have laws against one specific motivation for the sex act, while the sex act itself is legal?
 
Isn't it strange that we have laws against one specific motivation for the sex act, while the sex act itself is legal?
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If money changes hands the government feels like it has carte blanche to do whatever it wants.
 
Rape is a crime of violence, prostitutes don't

get raped. They then get killed by the prep. Funny this business. If you confuse your facts and use them to confuse your story it makes for a good read.

Entrapment, is in the mind of the beholder.

1
Hi, honey looking for a good time(hooker)? Yes ma'am sure am.(john) Well I charge $100.00 for 2 hours of anything you want baby (hooker). Well I want ........(something sexual) No problem I give that first, we will use protection....Not Entrapment...

2
Hi, you sure are cute (hooker). Thank you, I am looking to get laid for $50.00 (john...cop)
Well baby, you came to the right place, because I'll do it in your car. (hooker)
Are you the police? (hooker) No, just looking to get laid for $50.00 (cop..john)
Entrapment.

Money for sex, it is who is telling/asking who. Fine line.

Pure and simple.

Harley
 
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