Pushing the envelope a little... (Prostitution)

Victimless crime, I think not

I think you are loosing the point here.

Laws are saying it is a crime. It is a crime.
I see the majority of you are for it? Am I reading
this correct?

Quite a bit of inslaved and bonded people are forced
in to doing it.

I am not so sure when society say's they don't want it
how just because someone wants to do it, it should be ok.

It would be nice if it was as simple as you all seem to think.
Pretty complex situation. The way it is in America it
seems the way society wants it.

Hustler mag has tried for years to say it is ok. ABC laws are
pretty strict is some states still.

I think it is better not to have red light districts and such.

And yes prostitution is not all females.

My thoughts,
Harley
 
Victimless Crime. Period. Just like drugs, which has enabled our correctional system to become a business, as a large percentage of inmates are doing time for drug-related offenses. Society obviously does want it, otherwise there would be no customers. It ain't the world's oldest profession because nobody wants it. Why can't we take a lesson from the Euros for once, and just realize it's not going away, so let's regulate it. It works. The same would work for drugs. The benefit is the money we save in tax dollars from prosecuting these cases as well as the expense we incur as citizens to house and care for these inmates and their cable t.v.
 
Pax,

The graphics on the phone poles and fences aren't so bad but it's really tacky when they try to hand you that crap when you're walking down the street with your spouse!
 
I see the majority of you are for it right?
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I am not for prostitution.

I am for freedom.

I think prostitution is ugly, degrading, and depressing, a cheap waste of what is supposed to be one of the most valuable and meaningful of human experiences. From the seller's end, it's the last refuge of desperation; from the buyer's end, it's lonely and ultimately empty.

Nevertheless, I absolutely believe that human beings have a fundamental right to do what they wish to do with their own bodies. If a woman wants to sell sex, and a man is willing to pay for it -- and both are willing to use each other in that way -- I don't believe it's my business or yours to tell them they may not. I don't think it's the business of the state, or of society, or of the next door neighbors. As long as they are harming no one else, it isn't the business of anyone else.

Quite a bit of slavery and bonded people are doing it.
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Yes. And that slavery is far, far more likely to happen when prostitution is illegal. When it's illegal, but it's the only way a desperate woman* who has no job skills can make money, she is very much at the mercy of the first manipulative sleazeball who comes around. If he uses her and steals her income, what is she going to do, call the police?

When prostitution is legal, she can do just that -- call the police when she is abused. She is no longer sneaking around the fringes of society, hiding in back alleys to ply her trade. She can operate out of a safe location, rather than walking the streets and risking assault from every stranger that comes along. She doesn't have to get into anyone's car. Her earnings are more likely to be her own.
I am not so sure when society say's they don't want it how just because someone wants to do it it should be ok.
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That's how tyranny begins -- by one person believing he has a right to tell others what to do, even if they aren't harming him.

And that's why I'm for freedom even when people are using freedom to do stuff I think is immoral and stupid.

pax

* or man, but I'm going to use female because the vast majority of prostitutes are female, and because it makes the pronouns less confusing!

The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant. -– John Stuart Mill
 
+1 Pax -- awesome post! Very thought-provoking and well thought out.


Quite a bit of inslaved and bonded people are forced
in to doing it.
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Um, quite a bit of enslaved and bonded people are forced to mine diamonds. Should the diamond industry be ground to an utter halt, too, after being made illegal?


I'm sure that there have historically been slaves who were forced to pick cotton, too. Does that mean cotton harvesting should be forbidden even to those who WISH to pick cotton for a living?!

I mean, where is the logic in saying that just because SOME people have been forced into sex-slavery, that those who CHOOSE to engage in that business should not be allowed to?

-blackmind
 
All vices..........prostitution, gambling, drugs...........your choice are all victimless. Banning them has only created a blackmarket and has done nothing to stop it. It didn't work for booze, it's not working for other vices. A far better policy would legalization regulating and taxing the activity. It seems to work in Europe and the far east. No reason it can't work here except for the crowd wanting to turn us into a southern baptist theocracy would whine louder.
 
In a nut shell it is religion that causes the legislation of morality. There are great voting blocs of religious people who want to save other people from themselves. These well intentioned people (and they do mean well), are causing vastly greater harm; yet they are saving no one at all.

Imagine the difference between:

Scenario One: The way most prostitutes live now, under the rule of organized criminals, generally hooked on drugs to keep her amenable to pressure, exposed to violence and diseases, her earnings mostly taken from her, and thrown away when she gets too old to be marketable, if she lives to be old enough to be unmarketable.

Scenario Two: Or a prostitute that works in a legal brothel, under the protection of the legal system, generally clean of drugs, protected from violence, protected from diseases, keeps most of her earnings (as much as any of us does), and has 401K to rely on when she does get too old to work.

Why would anyone knowingly wish that first scenario onto anyone else? There are plenty of real life examples of these two scenarios, it isn't theoretical at all.
 
Granted we as a society have made it this way

How many of you have been in other countries and seen this wonderful scenerio?

I believe if that is the prime mover for you. And you believe in what you are saying then you should give up the mask, go out and expose yourselves to the real world of prostitution.

I wish it were as simple as you state. Yes, religion is the prime mover for the way we run this and any other country. Unfortunatly we are becoming more
inclined to go to that side of the coin (religion).

As we call it 'Victimless' in reality it is a terrible way to live. As others have pointed out.
But this country is not going to go for it. I will bet the ones who want guns to be OK, any kind. Would vote for the party who wants guns.

That same party is the one who is against prostitution. And the party that wants more freedom is the one that wants to take away the guns. Like I say very complex, this thing we call freedom. :confused:

With freedom comes responsibility, more responsible more freedom, hiding behind a phony name and spouting freedom is not what freedom is all about.
The more I read these threads the more I wonder why? Sad.
Harley
 
How many of you have been in other countries and seen this wonderful scenerio?
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I have. Unregulated prostitution is a stew of human abuse. Some of the most devout Catholics I have ever known were entertainers in the Philipines. Different cultures have different mores.

With freedom comes responsibility, more responsible more freedom, hiding behind a phony name and spouting freedom is not what freedom is all about.
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Harley. Really. Do you expect anyone here to believe your driver's license says Harley Quinn? :rolleyes: It's OK to have a screen name, it does not affect the legitimacy of your statements. Only those who search for bogus reasons to discredit another person's posts uses a screen name as an indicator of content validity.
BTW my driver's license does not say Xavier Breath, but I approved this message. ;)
 
+1 459

I concur with everyone here that says it's a "victimless crime" and therefore should not be illegal. Consenting adults should be able to buy sex, like anything else. Paying cash is no different than taking a woman on a date, buying dinner, drinks, and then having sex.

I agree that it would generally make it less visible, safer for all parties, less drug use, more STD testing, and less violent culture, and it could be taxed (while I'm against taxes, it seems only fair since MY income is taxed).


Sax: It is illegal to sell your organs.
 
Good post guys and I don't believe my Lic

Has that name on it. LOL But let me think, HMMM better check. LOL

I agree on some of the reasoning. I wish it could be more educated and less politics and stuff. But it will never be. Sad. Religions are for the religious.
Once they show that position I am going to be polite :eek: (take it with a grain of salt)...Willie and Waylon...

I was naive and posted my real name what I did and all that stuff, After getting ripped up on the threads by personal attacks, I prefer not to devulge and I don't blame others. Unless of course I am trying to preserve my position.
:D :D :D :eek: I am suprised I said that... :)

Lead and others who have various opinions that differ. I believe we are more similar than different. But when it comes to name calling I try not to.

XXXOOOO
Harley
 
It is not a victimless crime, but alchohol isn't victimless either, neither are cars! Both are legal, regulated and make profit for the government, why shouldn't prostitution?

In fact alchohol was at one point illegal, so theres hope yet for prostitutes.
 
A "victimless" crime is one in which the victim is someone you don't care about. When a prostitute is killed by one of Jack the Ripper's descendants it's like a gangland killing, or someone being killed by doing something illegal or foolish or stupid. It was their decison to engage in those actions, they alone must take the risks and pay the price. Thus, as someone who is totally against recreational drugs, when I learn of someone dying from taking controlled substances, I have no sympathy. In the case of gambling, I don't
gamble because 1. I am cheap. 2. I think it's rigged. 3. The odds against winning are astronomical. As one business man said to me "They don't build
those casinos with winners." I read a True Crime book entitled "Contract Killer"
by Donald "The Greek" Frankos-he claims to have been in the killing of Jimmy Hoffa-where he says he ran a couple of gambling dens for the Genovese crime family. He says his games weren't rigged due astronomical odds, on the off chance there was a big winner, he had thugs lying in wait to relieve the winner of his earnings. Even in countries where licensing and inspection laws
exist, a lot of prostitutes ignore them, and you have a problem with STDs.
Not to mention a lot of "working girls" aren't real girls.
And government licensing and regulation to control or discourage an activity-where have we heard that before?
 
It's just another way the religious right wants to control morality. Nothing more nothing less. Saying that drugs and nasty hookers will flood the streets if it was legal is like saying that 'assault weapons' will be everywhere and blood will run in the streets. Nonsensical arguments based on fear and bias. In fact where it is legal is it much cleaner and less visible than it is on a US street where it has to be forced underground.
 
Sig:

A "victimless" crime is one in which the victim is someone you don't care about.
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Actually, when someone says something is a "victimless crime" they are referring to the fact that the alleged "crime" is just an activity between two consenting adults that is not intended to harm either and is not wrong in any absolute terms, but only wrong based on the whims of legal legislature. Examples are gambling, prostitution, drugs... There is a 'gray' area in all of these. Sometimes it's legal to game and sometimes it's not. Same is true for the others. So, it's not a question of something that all cultures feel is wrong (for instance, theft or murder), but instead imposed morality.
 
In my country prostitution is legal on a national level, as is (since a few years) brothelkeeping. This doesn't stop the municipalities chasing off the streetwalkers and trying to stop brothels with zoning regulations. On the other side there are trade associations for prostitutes (who work as freelancers) and brothelkeepers. It does also seem (to me) to make the industry healthier and safer.

It does make for some interesting situations though.

I read about some prostitutes winning a court case against a large bank. The bank had denied the prostitutes requests to open business accounts and the prostitutes weren't amused.

Then there was the time that a massage parlour put in a request to the job center. Some women were offered jobs there by the center. I don't know if there were any takers.

About a year ago, it came out that police officers working illegal immigration (IIRC) had been calling call-girls to hotel rooms and checking their immigration status, safety and health. The kicker (or so some people thought) was that the police had been paying the prostitutes for their time. After it came out that the officers had stayed within their brief and the prostitutes were paid only for services rendered (a conversation) things quieted down. The officers had been prudent enough to tape everything.

IIRC pimping is still illegal here. Forcing or coercing someone into prostitution is also frowned on.

Cheers,
ErikM :D
 
Well, the way that I look at things, like drugs and prostitution is that we know that making it illegal isn't working, and I still don't see how making something "more illegal" is going to solve the problem either.

So I say that we try the other way, legalize it, regulate it, and tax it (even through I don't like regulations or taxes) and see what happens.

Like I said, I think that the act of prostitution is immoral in MY beliefs (not others) and that drugs are for losers, but again, those are just my opinions and beliefs.

But in NO way do I have the right or the place to shove my beliefs or opinions upon anyone else.

Wayne
 
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