Punishing felons for the rest of their lives

diana

Inactive
just found this website and was reading your posts of punishing felons for the rest of their lives and you hit the nail on the head. the same thoughts go thru my head that if my child did something when he was a kid, he gets punished for that and that's it. If he gets in trouble a year later, I don't remember back and then double his punishment based on what he did last year. that would be silly, right?

My husband was riding quads with friends last april. they were going across a creek and one of his friends asked if he would hold his gun in his pack so it wouldn't get wet. He did. big mistake. He had gotton a felony about 15 years ago for having marijuana. He did his time back then. He was just a dumb kid back then. He is now a respectable businessman, married with four children. In fact we just had our fourth baby when the judge sentenced him to 2 years in prison for this. I am completely appalled by this. you would think they would look at the situation and then decide on the punishment. It is not doing anyone any good to put this man behind bars, especially prison, where your life can change forever. It does however affect these young children and not in a good way. It doesn't seem right to punish someone for the rest of their life for a mistake when they were young and stupid. He would not be in any trouble at all if he didn't have a felony on his record. Especially if the crime has nothing to do with a gun. that I don't understand. we go camping a lot and it would be nice to be able to protect his family from wild animals or whatever. and why can't a felon vote forever? or receive a law license or what if they are trying to do good for themselves. we are just pushing these people down and not encouraging people to better themselves. no wonder why the prisons are overcrowded. because there is a lot of people there that shouldn't be there. something needs to change.
diana
 
Hi Diana - Welcome to The Firing Line! :)

I moved your post out of that three-year-old thread and made it a stand-alone thread.

I'm sorry about the problem with your husband. Seems to me that there must be something more to the story though. How can holding someone's gun out in the wilderness and then giving it right back send him back to prison for two years?

-Dave
 
Aside from the fsct that he would have had to come in contact with a LEO somehow for his felony to have been discovered.

I do agree that non violent felons should not be stigmatized for life ,as many here do.
 
Nearly every state has procedures for petitioning for restoration of civil rights. Your friend should waste no time in carrying out those procedures.
 
I thought as long as the owner was with him, the owner is still legally in posession of the firearm.

There are any cases like that. The first time I got into to trouble I got hammered with 68 days of jail and two years of probation for a misdemeanor. My father on the other hand has several felonies on his record with most of them violent and he's out running the streets hurting innocent people. If he doesn't run into me I hope he runs into someone with a gun and gets whats comming to him.
 
So in the time it took to cross this creek, they had an encounter with law enforcement?

Did he "just forget" that he had a firearm on his person [and having a felony record] after having it given to him by his Friend, and was stopped later?

Were they in violation of ordnances while riding? What was the reason for the discovery of the weapon? Is your husband known to law enforcement in the area he was riding in?

There must have been some mitigating circumstances for a judge to sentence him, if he has been clean for the last 15 years.

Bottom line for me, accepting responsibility for actions taken past or present.

12-34hom.
 
There are consequences to actions. There are repercussions to poor decisions. I would suggest you stop being an enabler and making excuses for your husband and help him to mature by making him do his time.

Responsibility is a bitch, isn't it.
 
I thought as long as the owner was with him, the owner is still legally in posession of the firearm.

That only applies to actors with felony & domestic violence convictions while on movie sets. For everyone else, you cannot be in possession of a firearm at any time.

There are consequences to actions.

Reminds me of the movie Judge Dredd. Sometimes there are justifiable reasons for the action. Not everything is black & white.
 
While you don't think it is right to punish a person for the rest of their life for committing a felony not involving a gun, your husband apparently committed a felony as an adult that you describe as young and stupid at the time. When he committed the felony the laws in place at the time include him retaining the felony status for the rest of his life. As with the prison time that is one aspect of the punishment process, the felony status and loss of rights is another aspect. Both are the rammifications that come with committing a felony, a felony he committed voluntarily. He may have been young and stupid as you said, by why should the courts give special consideration to young and stupid people? Being young and stupid are not grounds for expunging the felony record of adults. Depending on your state, it might have been possible to get some of your husband's rights back (as noted), but I am guessing that wasn't attempted. If your state allows for this, then why didn't your husband petition to get back his rights? If he did petition unsuccessfully, why was he rejected?

He would not be in trouble at all if he didn't have the felony on his record? Probably not, but he does have a felony on his record because he is a felon and felons are precluded from specific activities like handling firearms or voting. He originally broke the law voluntarily as an adult. For that, you called him young and stupid. Now, he voluntarily broke the law as a middle-aged adult. So I am guessing that makes him middle-aged and stupid as he has trouble with committing felonies.

You said y'all go camping a lot and it would be nice for your husband to be able to protect his family from wild animals or whatever. Well, either y'all need to be diligent in choosing camp locations that don't run the risk of dangers like wild animals, make use of alternative forms of protection such as pepper spray (which may be about the most powerful thing some parks will allow as some definitely don't allow guns for anyone other than LEOs), or not go camping.

Just curious, are you a felon as well? What precludes you from owning a firearm and providing camp defense against wild animals or whatever? Protection isn't just a man's job.

It is not doing anyone any good to put this man behind bars, especially prison, where your life can change forever. It does however affect these young children and not in a good way.

No doubt about it, being sent to prison is tough on people. No doubt that it is a darn shame that your 4 kids won't have a father around for the next two years and that isn't going to be beneficial to the kids at all. Sadly, your husband wasn't overly concerned with the rammifications of committing a felony when he was young and stupid and given that he is now a felon, knew he is a felon when handling the gun and knew it was illegal for him to do so, he apparently didn't seem overly concerned about the legal rammifications for breaking the law yet again.

You are right. It will be hard on the kids. It is a darned shame that your husband did not take his family into consideration before breaking the law. I just can't imagine having three kids, one on the way, and doing what he did. Why would he have put himself in a position by breaking the law that would negatively impact the childhood of his kids? It is not the fault of the courts that your husband was breaking the law that results in depriving his children of a father figure..

You know, there are two types of people who break the law. There are those who are dumb for breaking the law and those dumb enough to break the law and get caught. Following the query of TheBluesMan, something just isn't right with the story. The odds of getting caught would have to be astronomically in your husband's favor for not getting caught. Think about it. What are the odds that out in a remote area riding quadrunners in a creek that your husband held the friend's gun pack for a very short period of time while the guy road in the creek, that your husband was spotted by somebody in law enforcement while holding the gun and that the law enforcement officer recognized your husband as a person with a felony conviction from 15 years ago and hence was now breaking the law?

Something must have been done to draw attention of law enforcement to the location where they were riding. What was it? Are quad runners allowed where they were riding? Did they have a confrontation with other people who felt threatened enough to call the police? Were they shooting?

You are not giving us the whole story. There is just no way that your husband held a pack with a gun for a brief period of time in a place that usually would not have many people or cops, and was recognized as a felon with a gun and subsequently arrested, tried, and sentenced. Why were the authorities there and what was done that required the authorities to check IDs of the people present, thereby determining your husband was a felon?

Yep, it is a darned shame your husband engaged in illegal activities and now will be depriving you of a husband and your kids, all four of them, a father. Maybe after he gets out this time that he can remain law abiding long enough for the kids to get grown.

Funny thing I have noticed over the years. Few law abiding citizens commit time and effort to try to change the severity and rammifications of felony convictions or try to have felony laws reclassified as misdemeanors. They don't put forth time in such endeavors as most have little concern for the hardships of felons and while they may not completely support the law, they find the notion repulsive that as law abiding citizens that they would be working to grant freedoms to criminals, reduce punishments, etc. Instead, those most interested in fighting such matters are usually felons themselves, know or are related to felons, or are involved with some do-gooder organization like Amnesty International.

You did know your husband was a felon, right? So you married him and I am guessing you have been married to him for at least a few years. So tell me, diana, just how much time your husband spent in the last 15 years after his felony conviction fighting for criminal rights and how much time you spent after getting with your husband to fight for criminal rights? How much time in your adult life have you worked to change these unfair laws? The laws that you consider unfair have been around for a very long time and were in place when you became an adult. From your post, I am of the impression that you haven't done a darned thing, nor has your husband in fighting for criminal rights before now. If you had, then no doubt you would have posted information on the endeavors.

So why weren't you crusading for criminal rights before now? Probably because you really didn't think the issue was terribly important. It is only now terribly important because your husband broke the law again and his illegal act is resulting in a negative impact on you and your family.
 
Responsibility is a bitch, isn't it.
Yup, and it occurs to me that he faced his the first time around. I see no reason to deprive someone of the right to vote, hold office or own a gun because of a non-violent crime years previous. If he did his time and probation, his debt is paid and he should not be stripped of Any of his Inalienable Rights for life. I simply don't accept the notion that "part of the punishment is lifetime loss of rights"...that a Life Sentence of sorts.

Petition for Restoration?
It's expensive....kinda like the unConstitutional Poll Tax. Besides, why should he have to "petition" in a fair society? He erred. He paid. If he errs again, he pays again...with even harsher sentence.
Rich
 
Rich: Sounds like he re-erred.
No, it sounds like he may have run afoul of a Lifetime Sentence after paying his debt to society.

Does this make him a "victim"? Of course not, except in the sense that the law is morally poor and practically non-sensical. It "creates" criminals where no practical criminal activity exists.

Brady put thousands of citizens (and cops), guilty only of Mis-D Domestic "crimes", in the exact same position....retroactively. That's a "law", too. But it's equally bankrupt and nonsensical on moral, practical and freedom grounds.

People need to re-read Atlas Shrugged. The hallmark of decay in a "free society" are laws that turn non-criminals (according to common sense) into criminals (in the legal sense)....and a society that "tut-tut's" the new "criminal class" and stands by as they're jailed and their property confiscated.

The only thing that separates many of us from the same fate is time.
Rich
 
ps: Denny Hansen pointed something up to me a couple of days ago.

Anyone here ever pushed the speedometer past 80 in a 55? I'm willing to bet most of us have. Guess what...in AZ, that makes you a Felon. (CA and a few other states also have Felony Speeding Laws.)

Welcome to the New America. Keeping us safe, no matter what the cost. ;)
Personally, I'd prefer anyone who is guilty of such action, convicted or not, leave the Board right now. I don't associate with Felons like you. :rolleyes:
Rich
 
You're not a felon until they convict you.

As far at the Lifetime Sentence thing goes, I don't really think most people convicted of crimes deserve a Lifetime Sentence. OTOH, that's the way things stand and convicted felons need to tread lightly and behave accordingly.

Me too...Where'd the cop come from?

John
 
You're not a felon until they convict you.
Incorrect. You're a "convicted felon" only after conviction. But you're a "felon" the moment your speedo tops 80 in certain locales. According to some here, a felon is a felon is a felon. I'm simply trying to point up that this was only true in a time when a "felony" involved direct harm to others...not "risk" or "potential crime"....and certainly not the unused pistol in your backpack.

Anyone here ever carry a pistol under conditions where it was technically precluded by law? You're a Felon, too....just not a "convicted" one. Did you make that decision because you felt the Law was sound, but decided you'd break it, or for some other reason? Ever taken a friend's prescription medication into your own body...go from us now...you're one of those Felons. Ever taken your own prescription medication and put it into a different container for convenience....yup, you too are one of them thar Felons.
Rich
 
sorry to hear about that Diana, but how was LE involved in the wilderness?
Prohibition has resulted in many shattered lives. The simple fact is that your husband choose to enjoy some good bud instead of getting hammered and getting behind the wheel or going home to beat you, the American way. I don't believe in punishing someone for a victimless crime for the rest of their life. Unfortunately the law is the law and you can't afford to be stupid in this day and age. If you're going to smoke pot and push the limits of the law, then you have to be smart about it. Your husband must have been carrying over an ounce in public and doing something else against the law to be caught in the first place, or your house was raided, once again doing something to attract attention. I have a Mis. for possession. I blame noone but myself for sitting in a parking lot on break ( when i was a teen working at Mickey D's) enjoying some herb while being spied on instead of getting plastered at the local bar, which must be popular for my current co-workers.
I have a degree in engineering now and work for a telephony netwoking corp. My whole point is: BE SMART!!
 
Based solely on what has been reported to us... which is precious little...

This man should have been left alone...

It is up to the Prosecutors to decide if a case warrants adjudication...
They obviously had their reasons...

It is up to the Judge to consider the situation when sentencing...
The judge obviously had his reasons...

I think there is more to this than meets the eye...

A friend of mine broke his back in a motorcycle race... He is paraplegic and confined to a wheelchair... "for the rest of his life" and he KNOWS this is because of his CHOICE to race motorcycles.

"You can "repent" of the mistake... but it doesn't release you from the consequences."

That may be a hard fact... but it is a fact nevertheless. :(
 
Rich, as in every INTERNET saga - there's more to this story here than what's being told by the original poster.

More details would be in order, to make a balanced decision.

I would be intrested in hearing - if the female side of this is a convicted felon also.

There are alot of people in prisons who should not be there.
How true, just ask any inmate in one and they will tell you the same thing.

12-34hom.
 
There's three sides to every story. Not that it matters, but my take is that he knew the possible punishment for the pot, he knew he was a convicted felon when he took possesion of the pistol, he knew he wasn't supposed to have the firearm and knew the possible punishment for having it. If you don't want to do the time don't do the crime. I don't agree that all laws are good laws, but until they are changed good or bad they are what you have to work within.
 
Rich, as in every INTERNET saga - there's more to this story here than what's being told by the original poster.
Yes, but Rich isn't apologizing for Diana's husband; Rich isn't judging him "innocent".

All Rich is doing is pointing out that laws which allow for permanent loss of Inalienable Rights after one's sentence is completed are immoral and counterproductive; that with all the laws on the books today, "But for the Grace of God, There Go We". Anybody here arguing they've never committed a Felony under current law? Never exceeded the posted speed by 25 MPH? Never? Never carried in a situation, time or place where it was technically illegal? Never?

Our jails are full. We jail a higher percentage of our population than any nation currently on Amnesty International's Watch List. Ever wonder why? I mean really wonder, rather than assume all those countries simply execute their criminals?

Ever think about the shrinking tax base and increasing costs of maintaining the percentage in jail that we do? The lost productivity? The numbers there without benefit of charges or defense council, because it's a matter of "National Security"?

Look, I'm hardly a bleeding heart defender of people who commit crimes. But the lines between so many of "Them" and so many of "Us" are becoming increasingly blurred.....simply by the gradual change in how a "crime" is defined by The State. Are YOU a Felon? My money says, "Absolutely".
Rich
 
Back
Top