Public displays of open carry

One can both be polite, answer smaller questions, and still protect one's constitutional rights. Its not that hard. Be polite, courteous etc. If it gets more serious, remain polite and courteous, but politely assert your rights. It won't stop an arrest, but it will preserve your rights under a bad search/arrest.
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Key words are "be polite, courteous, etc". Totally agree, and that is also the opinion of legal experts, but legal experts do not suggest that you "answer smaller questions, and they will not agree that "It's not that hard". Anything you say can hurt you, nothing you say can actually help you. Watch the video.

Immediately freaking out is not going to be helpful. Pragmatically ticking off the cop is going to make things go bad. legally, dpeending on your behavior it may start the fun chain of reasonable suspicion and again everything can go down hill.
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The easiest thing to rember, which will help you from freaking out, is to remain polite, but insist a lawyer or your lawyer be present before you answer any questions. Cops understand that, and if they are questioning you, they are trying to establish a reasonable suspicion (they don't have it yet). Talking to them about circumstances that you are sure can't encriminate you in some way, may incriminate you in some way. Ask any lawyer!!!
 
It may seem that I am against OC, I'm certainly not, and I find myself doing it on occasion. What I'm against is the political statements, and how some go about doing it. Guns are a very polarizing topics. Going around with an AR slung across your back (or walking around with a camera with the sole purpose of getting LE interaction) to make a statement does three things:

1. Pro Gun rights people feel warm and fuzzy, and it strengthens their convictions on gun rights.
2. Pro Gun Control people feel that these types of actions confirm their beliefs (whether they are right or wrong) about "gun nuts" and it strengthens their convictions on gun control.
3. People who don't care, continue on not caring, except some of them question why someone needs to carry a deadly weapon out in public, and may start thinking that particular trend needs to stop. They're ok if it's hidden, you know, out of sight, out of mind, but God forbid people can see it!!

Doing stuff like this will rarely sway people to our side, though I'm sure there are some examples of it.

Having said that, there are a bunch of legitimate reasons to open carry. Most have been mentioned in this thread. 95% of the time, I'm CC. But if I'm headed to the range, even if I have stops going there or coming back, I'll usually be OC. I OC a lot in my house as it's more comfortable, and if I have to run to the store or something, I usually won't take the time to swap out holsters just for that. There's other reasons too. I just think using it as a political statement isn't a terribly great idea...I'll invoke the California open carriers again for this one...
 
One can both be polite, answer smaller questions, and still protect one's constitutional rights. Its not that hard. Be polite, courteous etc. If it gets more serious, remain polite and courteous, but politely assert your rights. It won't stop an arrest, but it will preserve your rights under a bad search/arrest.
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Yes I can't stress this enough. I am not LE, but I have lots of family who are. Answering simple questions can avoid misunderstandings about who I am... most importantly, I am not whoever it is they are looking for. If they happen to be looking for someone who matches my description, and I am rude, evasive, or refuse to speak with them, I might find myself taken to the police station. In the end, I am sure it will all get sorted out, but now I am paying my attorney $1000, I have ruined my entire day, and I have endured uneeded stress... for what?

Proponents of OC will say things like "A right unused is a right that will get taken away." But the truth is, this is a fallacy.
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Yes, totally agree. Guess what, we all have the right to make gay p 0 r n... who wants to exercise that right? Volunteers please... better hurry, before they take it away !
 
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+1 to noelf2 for linking that video. Very informative! I'm gathering from this
forum & others that if someone breaks into my home & I defend myself by shooting that person, I will most likely be arrested? I'm in Oklahoma, if that
makes any difference.:confused:
 
A right you are afraid to exercise isn't much of a right ...
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I totally agree! Obviously I don't walk around in T-shirts during the winter. In the summer I open carry more times than not. I've had some very good discussions with people curious about open carry and firearms in general.
I have never had a negative reaction or comment from anyone. {includung police}
No one has ever run out of a store screaming, ''he's got a gun, run for your lives''!
Further, OCing isn't always even that noticeable. Most folks never even notice my weapon, since i keep it in a pancake holster close to my body. Some people do, but many don't. I don't walk around with a sandwich board advertising a CZ-75 on my hip, any more than you do.
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This has been my experience most of the time. Most people are to wrapped up in their Iphones and daily lives to even notice I carring a gun anyway.

I have the right to OC in Pa, case closed.
 
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ClydeFrog, a concealed carrier who deliberately reveals his weapon where it is not legal to openly carry is not "Open Carrying," at least not legally.

People who deliberately seek confrontations while otherwise lawfully open carrying are a very specific subset.

A lot of people open carry, and don't make the news. In some areas, it is no big deal. And, as with any number of other things, how one behaves often makes more of an impression than what one actually does.
 
True but....

I agree but to be a gun owner in today's USA, you should be a mature, responsible ADULT.
I think a lot of people latch on to the 2A issue or OC to make a political point or to feed their warped feelings/ego.

OC laws or ordinances are not wrong but firearms are not props or toys.
Reckless or immature behavior could quickly turn a lot of people against gun owners in volatile places where gun laws could go either way.

I would agree though that in areas with clear OC laws, the "hey, your scaring everyone with your exposed gun" LE excuse is lame.
 
It is legal to open carry in the great state of Virginia but I don't see anyone doing it too often. I was in a restaurant eating breakfast about 3 weeks ago and a young man and his two daughters walked in and sat two tables over from me. He was carrying a revolver on his hip and no one payed much attention to it. I've been out and about in stores/shops and people come in with their guns on their hips and I just haven't noticed much of a reaction by anyone around. I'm ok with it.
 
As a kid it was common to see someone during hunting season stop at a country place and walk in with a sidearm. No one thought anything, plus you usually knew the person.
 
Open carry is not prohibited here in Pa. There are quite a few who open carry handguns regularly. I prefer CC for carry.

There is a Pa Forum where the OC people post stories while carrying. Most are uneventful. Only a few have incidents where they are contacted by LE.
 
Ship Ahoy said:
Open carry is not prohibited here in Pa. There are quite a few who open carry handguns regularly. I prefer CC for carry.

There is a Pa Forum where the OC people post stories while carrying. Most are uneventful. Only a few have incidents where they are contacted by LE.
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I am on a Indiana Gun Owners forum, and members post OC stories on a regular basis. Most are largely uneventful.
 
I watched that farce of a video Noelf2. A law professor, really? That is your source of all great knowledge. A video posted on youtube by a law professor, unnamed, unknown. Some jerk in a tie behind a podium in a classroom. There must be 100 thousand of these guys in the country so what makes this guy stand out.

What is it about this video that makes his statements credible at all?
 
I watched that farce of a video Noelf2. A law professor, really? That is your source of all great knowledge. A video posted on youtube by a law professor, unnamed, unknown. Some jerk in a tie behind a podium in a classroom. There must be 100 thousand of these guys in the country so what makes this guy stand out.

What is it about this video that makes his statements credible at all?
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Your funny... Here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Duane_(professor)

You would probably associate with other non-law assessments like the "Weekly Standard" rebuttal of Professor Duane's "jerk in a tie behind a podium" lecture, so I'll link it here too. In my opinion, they're not understanding what the professor is talking about:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/08/white_lawyer_says_dont_talk_to.asp

James Duane isn't saying "don't help solve crimes", he's just saying "don't talk to the police". Cops on the scene are note takers, and they can (and do) get things wrong. You can still be called as a witness / credible source with the guidance of your lawyer. You simply say that you will cooperate, but you need legal guidance first. Much different than Rev. Sharpton's "Don't Snitch" idiocy.

Did you listen to the Police Officer affirming the professors message? Last half of the youtube video?
 
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If it's legal to OC in your state, I believe in 'picking the time & place' to do so.

OC is legal in Georgia. I OC around the house and in town which are in rural N. Georgia. But if I'm going down to the Atlanta area, I CC to avoid any potential problems with the local cops.

It works for me but to each his own.
 
If it's legal to OC in your state, I believe in 'picking the time & place' to do so.
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Absolutely. That's an idividual choice, sometimes. In Virginia, you can't apply for a CHP until you are 21, but you can own and carry a gun at age 18. That means that open carry is the only option between 18 and 21, wherever you are. I don't see a lot of open carry in my area, but when I do, I support and respect the carrier. I am definitely a fan of video capturing police officers performing their duty. Not keen on people picking a video fight with the police, but police should be well versed on how to handle such encounters. If an encounter goes bad, I blame the cop more than the idiot.
 
I am confused now noelf2, which Police Mans do I not trust, the one in the video or the ones from my home town, that I see at the High School football games, and at the table next to mine at the pizza parlor, or the ones who graduated from school with my daughters?

I am so confused :rolleyes:
 
lcpiper:
I am so confused
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Finally we agree on something. Anyway, you should do what works for you. Just don't assume the same is best for everyone. I prefer legal advice over bubba law, and posted what I thought might benefit others that don't know your local law enforcers.
 
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I OC maybe 50% of the time. Grocery store or restaurant - no. Walking the dog, hiking - yes. I guess I kind of look at it like - If I were a black belt in karate, I wouldn't wear my Gi and belt everywhere I went. In bigger picture mode, I'm in favor of bad guys never really knowing WHO might be armed. Might be that old guy with the moustache, might be that young soccer mom with kids in tow, might be both the husband and wife going to Costco for the free samples. And of course, I'm in Arizona. In some places, guns in the open are not well tolerated.

As far as group demonstrations, I definitely do NOT participate in any of those, gun related or otherwise. Big crowds with an agenda are not what I consider a safe place to be. Even if that doesn't get out of hand, there's always a bunch of 'other' agenda participants - the John 3:16 guys, the abortion/stem cell/federal budget/impeach the pope/you name the topic, guys.

As far as LEOs go, they aren't out to "get you" if you're law abiding. LEOs would LOVE to catch crooks all day long. But they spend most of their shifts keeping the peace between domestic disputes, neighbors with loud stereos and cars, and occasionally people who see "a guy with a gun". Their job is to go find that guy with the gun, verify that he's not a gangster, then go back to that original complainant and explain how they've interviewed you and they're convinced you're safe, not a crook. If you care to be the adversary and treat the cop like he has no business asking you to simply demonstrate that you're not a bad guy, then you're highly suspect. You don't set a very good example as a law abiding gun toting citizen. When those anti-gun people see you arguing with the cop, they naturally think "See, those gun nuts will even argue with the cops". That doesn't help a thing. What do you think the cop can/will tell the complainant if all you want to do is fight?

Relax. Demonstrate to the cop's satisfaction that you're the RIGHT kind of person to be carrying a gun. Then let him get back to work keeping the Jones' marrige together.


Sgt Lumpy - n0eq
 
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