Public displays of open carry

zincwarrior said:
I don't know about all states, but I know here, failure to identify yourself will get you legally arrested, where they will sort out your identity. If they are lawful orders, they are lawful orders, and you will be arrested if you violate them.
Click to expand...

Really? I didn't realize that Texas had gotten so persnickity. I don't know of any jurisdiction where you're required to identify yourself until you're detained or arrested. The peace officers there should be very careful in asking people for ID if they don't have probable cause that would support and arrest.

I'm a cop in Louisiana, and Louisiana is an open carry state. We've been an open carry state for years. It's really not a problem in most jurisdictions, and where it is a problem, lawsuits generally educate the police. Nothing talks like money,and in this tight economy when you hit an agency for several hundred thousand dollars it hurts.
 
Does a pistol on my hip give LEO sufficient suspicion to ask for my permit to carry, or submit to a pat-down after I tell them who I am?
Click to expand...

Depends on your state. If you are not in an open carry state, then you are breaking the law and they can arrest you and ask you for ID, carry permit, just about anything. If you are in an open carry state, then no. You may have to tell them who you are, show them ID, or nothing depending on your state laws.
 
Two pictures. One is of a gun rights rally in Hartford Ct where many were openly carrying. The other is an occupy Wallstreet rally in Ca. Which one do you think feel more safe attending?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
 

Attachments

  • uploadfromtaptalk1360725612763.jpg
    uploadfromtaptalk1360725612763.jpg
    23.7 KB · Views: 42
  • uploadfromtaptalk1360725629984.jpg
    uploadfromtaptalk1360725629984.jpg
    56.2 KB · Views: 40
The longer we put off making a stand, the more difficult that stand will be. On the other hand, in any large group, there will inevitably be those with whom we do not wish to be identified. It can be a tricky compromise, but if there were a legal protest organized by a reputable group in my area, I believe I would attend.
 
Absolutely correct Zincwarrior.


Really? I didn't realize that Texas had gotten so persnickity. I don't know of any jurisdiction where you're required to identify yourself until you're detained or arrested. The peace officers there should be very careful in asking people for ID if they don't have probable cause that would support and arrest.
Click to expand...

But PAWPAW hits the real nail on the head. He is a cop himself and you will see this small little "if" in his statement.
if they don't have probable cause that would support and arrest.
Click to expand...

You might be OCing and not know that something has happened close by. You might not be aware the cops have a valid reason for looking for an armed bad guy. How are you going to know at that moment if they are just hassling you or are actually after a whole different thing and you are just getting caught in the net.

I have always cooperated fully and spoken respectfully with the cops and it hasn't gotten me out of many tickets, but I have never been arrested or even detained.

Anything a cop could have done wrong to one of these guys trying to "force the issue", he could have done wrong with a cooperating individual. You don't have to stand for being intimidated but you also don't have to go out and provoke an encounter.
 
Last edited:
On youtube there seems to be hundreds of videos of people open carrying their firearms. The recordings of their interactions with various law enforcement agencies are unimaginable.

Law enforcement personnel appear to know less about federal and state law than those they're questioning. It's obvious to me that some of the officials depicted don't like civilians carrying guns.

Don't see any OC here although it's legal. Most of the people I know have concealed carry.

The police can order you to stop if they reasonably suspect that you have committed or are about to commit a crime.

The police can also stop you if they have reasonable grounds to believe that you have committed a violation. Police may detain you until they establish your identity.

There is no obligation in our state to carry photo ID or give identity information to law enforcement when stopped and requested. Of course that doesn't mean that they won't detain you until ID is established.
 
I don't trust any of those videos when it's clear they have been edited and narrated. From the moment I see the video isn't raw footage straight from the cam it is suspect to me.

A cop who looks confused might be confused for several reasons. Maybe he is confused about the law, or his superior's instructions and how he should carry them out if the situation has turned out to be something other then initially expected. Or perhaps he is confused by what he should do if his personal beliefs really conflict with his duty.

There could be many reasons the cop could look or behave confused when someone goes out looking to ambush him with a camera.

Oh yes, then you have anger, is he angry that someone is open-carrying or angry he has to put up with some dude trying to make a political or whatever point. Again there could be many reasons a cop would look angry in a situation like some of these and it's all too easy to paint a sign saying why you think he is angry when that reason fits your purpose.

Don't take the yous and yours personally, they are not aimed at you guys.
 
I am a believer in both open and concealed carry. I believe there is a time each however I don't believe that just because there are many opposed to it we should stop open carrying. Same thing with everything else in life if you dont like it too bad. Atleast thats my opinion :D
 
I fully support open carry and I'm not afraid to do it myself. It's my right in my state and I believe strongly it should be my right as an American in all 50 states.
 
When a police officer approaches me, for any reason, and I haven't committed a crime or intend to, I could care less if he's confused, angry, hungry, constipated, etc... I will follow strong legal advice and never speak to a police officer under any circumstances. Anytime it comes down to the word of a cop against a citizen, the cop wins. I encourage everyone to view the link I posted earlier in this thread, and not follow the guidance of internet yayhoos, especially the kind that throw empty virtual threats of thumping heads, etc... Now I'm done, do as you will....
 
noelf2 you go ahead and hide behind the idea that a lawyer convinced you was a smart way to deal with cops. You can hope it protects you in court.

I'll stick by what I know has always worked for me in my life when dealing with them. My way has never got me arrested to begin with.

As for empty internet threats, I'll give that comment all the attention it deserves.
 
I have mixed feelings about this. We have a right to carry a gun. Open or otherwise. The only reason people perceive it to be unwise is because carrying a gun openly, if you aren't a LEO or some kind of security, is a social taboo. I don't open carry often (in certain situations, I will), and I certainly don't do it as a political statement.

Proponents of OC will say things like "A right unused is a right that will get taken away." But the truth is, this is a fallacy. You're bringing into the forefront something that most non-gun people think isn't legal, and they are going to think that only police should be able to do that.

One only needs to look at California. They used to allow open carry as long as the firearm was unloaded. There was a huge, politically motivated, open carry movement. Law makers and the new Governor saw this and all they saw was a loophole that needed to be closed.

Think about it this way. What if the Gay Rights movement (I'm not making a political statement about this movement...I'm simply using it as an example) started in the 50's? It would have gotten shut down quickly. Laws preventing that type of behavior would have been drawn up and passed so quickly. Now, things are going the other way. Why? Because society is ready for it. Society wasn't ready for it. Society still isn't ready to accept that regular citizens have a right to carry a gun with them. Things are getting better, but we need to be careful about how we go about it, or more things like California might happen.
 
noelf2 you go ahead and hide behind the idea that a lawyer convinced you was a smart way to deal with cops. You can hope it protects you in court.
Click to expand...

Thing is, my way, I'll never see a court. We had an expression in the Navy. "Loose lips sink ships". I was just trying to give others, if they cared, a free legal opinion on the issue (the earlier link). An opinion that was backed up by an experienced cop. It pays to understand what cops do and why they do it. I have nothing against cops, and I understand they're just doing their job, but I know that nothing I say to a cop can help me and anything I say can hurt me. You should really watch the video so you know what I'm talking about. Might help you some day. Besides, your credibility and experiences are pretty much moot after your "thump heads" diatribe.
 
a response to Kevin

KevinAustin said:
I just wrote a blog post about my views on open carry.

It can be read here: http://www.personalccw.com/blog/

Feel free to comment. Great thing about America is we can disagree.
Click to expand...

My comment?

I think you're off base here in a big way. If "intimidation" is the only conclusion you can come to as a reason for OC, then I must sincerely question your ability to draw conclusions.

I CC about 70% of the time, but when I OC, its not because I want to intimidate or because I feel like a bad@$$. I OC normally for a few simple reasons:

1) comfort- an owb holster on my belt is infinitely more comfortable to carry a weapon, especially heavier, full size pistols.
2) ease of access- if CC was a better way to carry a pistol, LEOs would carry concealed. Fact is, it is easier and faster to draw unconcealed than it is to draw from concealment.
3) attire- some parts of my attire don't lend themselves well to an IWB holster.

I live in a state that allows OC and CC. When I OC, I have had a number of responses- ranging from asking questions to support. I had a lady in the line at the grocery store say she felt SAFER knowing someone with a sidearm was nearby. She wasn't telling me- she was telling the person behind her. I have had people ask questions about why I carry a gun, asking if I feel threatened, etc. I take these opportunities to talk to people about guns, and inform them of their rights.

Further, OCing isn't always even that noticeable. Most folks never even notice my weapon, since i keep it in a pancake holster close to my body. Some people do, but many don't. I don't walk around with a sandwich board advertising a CZ-75 on my hip, any more than you do.

I browsed your website, and if I lived in your area, I might have considered you for further training, if not for this blog. Your post comes across as not a lack of understanding about open carrying, but a lack of attempting to understand open carrying. I can't say this is how you think and feel, but this is how it comes across.

There is a big difference between reccomending CC after debating the pros and cons and publishing a slanted post and encouraging people not to exercise their right to carry- either openly or under concealment.
 
I OC about 75% of the time. It isn't so much of a political statement as a necessity. I wear overalls much of the time and concealing is a difficult proposition, so I just use a Fobus paddle holster. In the winter of course it is covered by a jacket much of the time, but it's wide open in warmer weather.
 
I fully support open carry and I'm not afraid to do it myself. It's my right in my state and I believe strongly it should be my right as an American in all 50 states.
Click to expand...

Exactly, couldnt have said it better myself.
 
noelf2 you go ahead and hide behind the idea that a lawyer convinced you was a smart way to deal with cops. You can hope it protects you in court.

I'll stick by what I know has always worked for me in my life when dealing with them. My way has never got me arrested to begin with.

As for empty internet threats, I'll give that comment all the attention it deserves.
__________________
Click to expand...

One can both be polite, answer smaller questions, and still protect one's constitutional rights. Its not that hard. Be polite, courteous etc. If it gets more serious, remain polite and courteous, but politely assert your rights. It won't stop an arrest, but it will preserve your rights under a bad search/arrest.

Immediately freaking out is not going to be helpful. Pragmatically ticking off the cop is going to make things go bad. legally, dpeending on your behavior it may start the fun chain of reasonable suspicion and again everything can go down hill.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top