Protecting your property in TX
- Thread starter thatguyjosh
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losangeles
New member
If it was me, and I saw the hoods ripping something off my car, I pickup the phone and call the cops. If they then proceed to my premises and possibly endanger my life, I'd pop 'em. But not until then.
Trip, change it from an SD to any legally justifiable shooting.
I have this feeling, and it is just a feeling, that CCW folks (I am one) are being neuroticially spooked by shadows when it comes to this major fear of being sued in civil court following a legally justifiable shooting.
If anyone out there anywhere has objective data on how often it happens, please let me know.
Thanks
Butch
I have this feeling, and it is just a feeling, that CCW folks (I am one) are being neuroticially spooked by shadows when it comes to this major fear of being sued in civil court following a legally justifiable shooting.
If anyone out there anywhere has objective data on how often it happens, please let me know.
Thanks
Butch
I see your point - I don't doubt that at all. I mean, most (all?) classes you take to get CC permits, and other such handgun training classes, usually touch on the legal aspect of things in some capacity. Some courses spend an ample amount of time on this topic and it probably does spook people.
Assuming there is no real chance of a civil suit, it’s plausible that the family may retaliate in some fashion… especially if the apple didn’t fall far from the tree so-to-speak. This is something I'd worry about after the fact, anyway.
But, aside from the Legal aspect, however real or unreal it may be, it's still not a good idea to get into a shootout especially if you do not have to – aka the Safety aspect.
Yelling from your window that the police are on their way and that you are armed and will use deadly force if necessary will probably startle most car thieves anyhow. Hell, sneezing too loud will make most people run off (haha). Doing this may avoid a shoot out, save your vehicle from being stolen, save you from having any real chance of legal troubles, and save your life.
Why walk outside and confront a potentially armed person – now matter how much of a surprise factor you may think you have? It just doesn't sound like a smart thing to do in my opinion. I’ll leave the confronting and detaining to the professionals, but I'll leave saving my life to me.
Josh,
Do you have bad dreams or still have insecurity issues with the boogeyman? In my 11 yrs of LE- I've never actually seen "2 males dresses in black" breaking into anything. Maybe they do that in places, I don't know. But the thing is, you sound a little paranoid. Yes, I would call 911 and tell them of the situation and that you are the good guy and that you have a firearm. Yes, I would have firearm in hand. Yes, I would yell a warning from the porch (or wherever you can put the greatest distance beween you and your bad dudes). Yes, I would get as good of a description as posible of the bad dudes. No, I wouldn't try to detain more than one bad dude (if I get paid to do that at work, let some other guy get paid to do that while he's at work). Yes, I will yell commands to stop, run, turn, around, drop, whatever seems appropriate as loudly as I possibly can- this lets neighbors hear you (neighbors like to turn on lights, draw attention- and they also make good witnesses... "Yes, I heard Mr Goodguy yell 3 times not to come any closer.") Yes, as soon as the cops get there, if the badguy is still there and I still have a firearm in my hand, I will drop it really fast, hold my hands up, stand still, and proclaim with much sincerety "I'm the goodguy and they're the bad guys".
It's up to you Josh, as for myself, I have been through too much already to be just another victim. You got a computer, do some research on state laws, and remember- ignorance of the law is no defense.
Do you have bad dreams or still have insecurity issues with the boogeyman? In my 11 yrs of LE- I've never actually seen "2 males dresses in black" breaking into anything. Maybe they do that in places, I don't know. But the thing is, you sound a little paranoid. Yes, I would call 911 and tell them of the situation and that you are the good guy and that you have a firearm. Yes, I would have firearm in hand. Yes, I would yell a warning from the porch (or wherever you can put the greatest distance beween you and your bad dudes). Yes, I would get as good of a description as posible of the bad dudes. No, I wouldn't try to detain more than one bad dude (if I get paid to do that at work, let some other guy get paid to do that while he's at work). Yes, I will yell commands to stop, run, turn, around, drop, whatever seems appropriate as loudly as I possibly can- this lets neighbors hear you (neighbors like to turn on lights, draw attention- and they also make good witnesses... "Yes, I heard Mr Goodguy yell 3 times not to come any closer.") Yes, as soon as the cops get there, if the badguy is still there and I still have a firearm in my hand, I will drop it really fast, hold my hands up, stand still, and proclaim with much sincerety "I'm the goodguy and they're the bad guys".
It's up to you Josh, as for myself, I have been through too much already to be just another victim. You got a computer, do some research on state laws, and remember- ignorance of the law is no defense.
Butch,
Apology to all.
I was struck by "2 males dressed in black breaking into my car". Guess I over reacted, but it did seem odd that Josh would have such a vivid description of a hypothetical situation. Maybe in another part of the country, a person with a predisposal towrds these thoughts (not hinting at paranoia) would describe 2 hispanic males with blue bandanas tied around their heads? Who knows. Maybe I look into things just a little too deeply. But, lets say someone does commit to the unlawful act of breaking into his motor vehicle- if he is convinced before hand that males dressed in black break into cars- could he describe correctly to the police two asian females dressed in dark brown? Like I said- I apologize.
Apology to all.
I was struck by "2 males dressed in black breaking into my car". Guess I over reacted, but it did seem odd that Josh would have such a vivid description of a hypothetical situation. Maybe in another part of the country, a person with a predisposal towrds these thoughts (not hinting at paranoia) would describe 2 hispanic males with blue bandanas tied around their heads? Who knows. Maybe I look into things just a little too deeply. But, lets say someone does commit to the unlawful act of breaking into his motor vehicle- if he is convinced before hand that males dressed in black break into cars- could he describe correctly to the police two asian females dressed in dark brown? Like I said- I apologize.
Why do we feel we should wait for the police to arrive before confronting burglars? Why not take a stand and do exactly what they will do ... WHEN THEY ARRIVE?
Or you can look at it this way. By confronting these perpetrators
you may actually be saving their lives.
The act of confrontation and subsequent loss of freedom, may be all that is needed to sway these men from commiting a future crime and possible
confrontation with an intended victim who may not be as "REASONABLE" as you.
Or you can look at it this way. By confronting these perpetrators
you may actually be saving their lives.
The act of confrontation and subsequent loss of freedom, may be all that is needed to sway these men from commiting a future crime and possible
confrontation with an intended victim who may not be as "REASONABLE" as you.
Double Naught Spy
New member
WRONG Question
This is one of those questions that keeps coming up over and over again that is just amazing to me. The question that should be asked isn't if I (the royal I) want to kill somebody over a car, car stereo, or other material object, but if the bad guy wants to risk getting himself killed over stealing something trivial relative to the value of his/her life such as a car, car stereo, or other material object.
Just for argument's sake here, let's say thatguyjosh did find a couple of guys breaking into his car right outside of his window. Just how do you determine that the bad guys' only goal was to steal the car and/or its contents until they are actually trying to flee with the car and/or contents? Please don't respond with answers like, "because they were breaking into the car and the only reason to do that is to steal it or its contents" or other such total situational awareness and precognition by the car's owner that he knows there are only two bad guys involved in this crime and that the crime is about stealing the car and/or its contents.
What if said bad guys are there to commit arson in the vehicle?
What if the two bad guys attempting the burgle the vehicle have been spotted by thatguyjosh because they were intentionally making noise to gain his undivided attention so that their partner(s) can gain safe entry elsewhere in thatguyjosh's home while he is distracted by the diversion? Such a diversion for house entry may be so that the bad guys can kidnap a member of thatguyjosh's family. Diversion type kidnappings aren't all that uncommon. Heck, what if the diversion is so that entry can be made undetected by a person who wants to murder thatguyjosh.
Maybe the burglars really are there to steal the car and/or its contents, but do you want to put that much trust into a couple of guys you don't know personally and who are in the middle of committing a crime against your estate?
Dennis, thatguyjosh and/or his legal help won't have any problems in finding case law and grand jury no bills that support protecting one's property at night with lethal force. While not law, here is a great example of just how explicit the law is on such matters.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64313&highlight=fight+cock
The owner of some fighting cocks shot and killed a 14 year old at night while he and his buddy were trying to make off with some poults. No charges were filed against him as he acted within the law.
This is one of those questions that keeps coming up over and over again that is just amazing to me. The question that should be asked isn't if I (the royal I) want to kill somebody over a car, car stereo, or other material object, but if the bad guy wants to risk getting himself killed over stealing something trivial relative to the value of his/her life such as a car, car stereo, or other material object.
Just for argument's sake here, let's say thatguyjosh did find a couple of guys breaking into his car right outside of his window. Just how do you determine that the bad guys' only goal was to steal the car and/or its contents until they are actually trying to flee with the car and/or contents? Please don't respond with answers like, "because they were breaking into the car and the only reason to do that is to steal it or its contents" or other such total situational awareness and precognition by the car's owner that he knows there are only two bad guys involved in this crime and that the crime is about stealing the car and/or its contents.
What if said bad guys are there to commit arson in the vehicle?
What if the two bad guys attempting the burgle the vehicle have been spotted by thatguyjosh because they were intentionally making noise to gain his undivided attention so that their partner(s) can gain safe entry elsewhere in thatguyjosh's home while he is distracted by the diversion? Such a diversion for house entry may be so that the bad guys can kidnap a member of thatguyjosh's family. Diversion type kidnappings aren't all that uncommon. Heck, what if the diversion is so that entry can be made undetected by a person who wants to murder thatguyjosh.
Maybe the burglars really are there to steal the car and/or its contents, but do you want to put that much trust into a couple of guys you don't know personally and who are in the middle of committing a crime against your estate?
Dennis, thatguyjosh and/or his legal help won't have any problems in finding case law and grand jury no bills that support protecting one's property at night with lethal force. While not law, here is a great example of just how explicit the law is on such matters.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64313&highlight=fight+cock
The owner of some fighting cocks shot and killed a 14 year old at night while he and his buddy were trying to make off with some poults. No charges were filed against him as he acted within the law.
My boss belives that nothing that can be bought is worth killing over. However I make $10 an hour and at the end of the day smell like Jet A. Between my new Colorado and rent and food and guns and ammo and the girlfriend; if anyone were to try and steal form me, they need killing. I have had just as few chances in life to succeed as they have, but they resort to being social parasites. Parasites need to die before they endanger the host organism. Now if they want to rob my boss who is from Peoples Republic of Cali and born with a silver, no platinum spoon in his mouth, go for it. He never had to bust his ass a day in his life. He can afford to replace it. I on the other hand had to fight for everything I ever got and I will fight to keep it.
I can't determine the bad guys intent entirely. This is why I suggest not running outside like Dirty Harry. What are you talking about?Double Naught Spy said:
...lol. OK I won't. You ask not to have a response containing total situational awareness and precognition... yet your arguments are all "What if's" and other supposition?Double Naught Spy said:
There are too many what if's.... or other ways to twist the supposed scenario to prove any point you like...
Your only arguing with yourself here. I'm not involved in a discussion about any assumption regarding the intent of the bad guys.............
I'm saying that because I don't know the intent, ability, # of bad guys, whether anyone is attempting to gain entry to my home, if they're going to commit arson on the vehicle, if they're hoping to kidnap my family members, or any other little what if's we can think up....... because I don't know any of these variables.... I'm not going to leave my home, leave cover, or attempt to arrest/detain/shoot someone screwing with my car. I'll call 911, yell some commands from the safety of my home hoping to scare them off and do my best to thwart off any attack until help arrives.
Pose any question you like. It's irrelevant to whether or not it's save to go outside and confront the unknown.Double Naught Spy said:
thatguyjosh
New member
It was just a scenario.
Trip20. With your mindset it is probably best that you stay inside, lay low, and call 911. Of course they will most likely be gone when help arrives.
Now that they know where to find what they want without a challenge,
when they come back and inside, might I suggest you retreat to another room so as not to endanger yourself.
In some places of our country people with comparable ideals wake up to find
everything they have worked for has vanished overnight.
IF THEY WAKE UP THAT IS.
Now that they know where to find what they want without a challenge,
when they come back and inside, might I suggest you retreat to another room so as not to endanger yourself.
In some places of our country people with comparable ideals wake up to find
everything they have worked for has vanished overnight.
IF THEY WAKE UP THAT IS.
LOL 2 males dressed in black? Ninjas? Wow that's some serious scenario. I grew up in Kali and went to school in the inner city of SF. When I was in high school, I have known other kids that will steal a car stereo in broad daylight and they weren't even wearing black. I graduated high school in the mid 80s and the gang problems back in those days were bigger than they are now or maybe I'm just getting older and I'm learning to look pass through those colored bandanas. josh
I agree. I have insurance to take care of my car, and I have guns to take care of my home & family.2rugers said:
The threshold for me, is apparently different than yours. I'll let insurance take care of what it can, and I'll defend the rest with my life. There's no need to subtly insinuate that I'm a sissy - though, that's probably easier than submitting a good point.
Trip20. There is also no need for you to insinuate that I am a homicidal psychopath out for blood. (post # 30). I will defend everything I own with my life if necessary. Why would any man allow someone to simply walk up and take what he has worked hard for and what the "THIEF" knows is not his?
Simply because many of us have become weak and lazy and want someone else to stand up for us.
How many crimes of any sort do you think would continue to happen if good people's "THRESHOLD" for malevolent acts was akin to mine?
Now ask yourself the same question about your modus operandi and see how they compare. My method deters crime and criminals, yours encourages them.
Also, I find it odd in a Freudian way that you believe I was insinuating you are somehow less than masculine for remaining in your home until someone comes to confront the "meanies" in your yard.??? "SISSY", as you put it, may be a little strong. Alas, I must read more of your responses concerning retreat
from your responsibilities to determine that.
Do write on.
Simply because many of us have become weak and lazy and want someone else to stand up for us.
How many crimes of any sort do you think would continue to happen if good people's "THRESHOLD" for malevolent acts was akin to mine?
Now ask yourself the same question about your modus operandi and see how they compare. My method deters crime and criminals, yours encourages them.
Also, I find it odd in a Freudian way that you believe I was insinuating you are somehow less than masculine for remaining in your home until someone comes to confront the "meanies" in your yard.??? "SISSY", as you put it, may be a little strong. Alas, I must read more of your responses concerning retreat
from your responsibilities to determine that.
Do write on.
hmm interesting... 2rugers you should consider something...
alot of thugs/thieves do it for a living..some might even be high on meth...they are probably more experience in violence and altercations then you..unless you are either a criminal, LEO, or choose to hang out in really bad part of town all the time..
so with this in mind..the fact that it is dark, their night vision would be more acclimatized then yours..the likehood they are armed..where is your advantage? Furthermore.. is it worth a gun battle over a car? I dont mean that you should let your stuff get stolen and do nothing im not advocating that...but you should consider that you might get shot or knifed in the process...
I think perhaps with natural born killer in your sig..you might not listen to reason. Some times it takes more balls to not do anyting rather than rush in like an idiot..
even if you do save your car...your still gonna loose it when you have to sell it to pay for all your ensuing legal bills to cover you capping some low life...
for say a hundred bucks or so..why not get lo-jack or a telephone engine demobilizing black jack system..that would allow you to render you car completely undriveable after the thieves had driven off..
by the way even if the punks dont have a gun..consider what a screwdriver can do to you when its rammed into your eye socket...
alot of thugs/thieves do it for a living..some might even be high on meth...they are probably more experience in violence and altercations then you..unless you are either a criminal, LEO, or choose to hang out in really bad part of town all the time..
so with this in mind..the fact that it is dark, their night vision would be more acclimatized then yours..the likehood they are armed..where is your advantage? Furthermore.. is it worth a gun battle over a car? I dont mean that you should let your stuff get stolen and do nothing im not advocating that...but you should consider that you might get shot or knifed in the process...
I think perhaps with natural born killer in your sig..you might not listen to reason. Some times it takes more balls to not do anyting rather than rush in like an idiot..
even if you do save your car...your still gonna loose it when you have to sell it to pay for all your ensuing legal bills to cover you capping some low life...
for say a hundred bucks or so..why not get lo-jack or a telephone engine demobilizing black jack system..that would allow you to render you car completely undriveable after the thieves had driven off..
by the way even if the punks dont have a gun..consider what a screwdriver can do to you when its rammed into your eye socket...