Protecting Myself
- Thread starter Alyssa Marcia
- Start date
XavierBreath
New member
A long treatise....
I, too, am sorry you had to go through this experience.
I'm going to be brutally honest here. There are times that a person just cannot prevent an attack. This, though, likely was not one of them. I would wager a weeks pay that this guy did not just happen to find himself in a ladies bathroom, lock the door and then discover you there. You were likely either seen entering the bathroom, or more likely seen elsewhere and followed. Rapists do not randomly check women's bathrooms. They select victims and stalk them until the victim places themselves in a place of vulnerability.
In today's age, it is not popular to point out what a rape victim could have done better to avoid the horrific experience of rape. It is called "blaming the victim" by the very people who seek to remove the woman's options of self defense. In reality, self examination and scutiny of the incident is necessary to protect yourself from a reoccurance. When a man gets beat to the ground, it's OK to say "He should not have done __________(fill in the blank). When a woman is raped, or a rape is attempted, it is not politically correct to do the same. Put that nonsense aside, and examine your own actions, intuitions, and thoughts prior to the incident. Realize that the best way to prevent your particular event would have been to never go into that bathroom alone.
I once read that humans are the only animals on Earth that rationalize away their fear. All other animals, from lions to dolphins, to fruit flies act on fear. Humans want to believe their world is safe and active self preservation is not necessary, so they convince themselves that their intuition is wrong, and that unsafe actions and unsafe places are indeed safe. The real world is not what ought to be, but what is. Sometimes this rationalization is so imbedded we do not even know we have supressed our intuitive voice that is trying to warn us.
So where does this leave us? While in the mall, did you have any inkling you were being followed or observed? When you went into the bathroom, did you have any feeling of the same? Did you have any reservations at all? If so, realize that was the little intuitive voice that will save your butt, and respect and cultivate it. If not, become more observant. I am not saying become paranoid, but more aware of what is happening around you. Realize that it is the voice, the intuition, the fear, that will save you, not pepper spray, not a knife, and not a gun.
Here is a good link to read up on. Keep an open mind and read it.No Nonsense Self Defense
Now, here are my thoughts on rape protection (not prevention) with tools instead of wits. If all else goes to a handbasket, and you were unable to detect a potential threat and are about to be raped, the encounter will be close quarters and swift. There will be an attempt to immediately overpower you with force, likely from behind. You will likely not be exchanging blows, but wrestling for control and escape.
To escape you MUST neutralize your attacker. You did this with a kick to the groin. Very good. You had that option and used it. It worked. Thankfully he did not have a friend along for the ride. You did what many other women could not do. Be proud of yourself.
But now you want a weapon. Realize that the weapon is not a magic talisman, but a tool to help you survive. Your determination and aggressiveness when attacked, which you have already demonstrated, is the magic talisman. Get the tool, but hone the correct talisman.
You have several weapons choices. I'll talk about each in relation to a close in on the ground type fight for your life.
Pepper Spray. As you saw, aim is vital with this stuff. The real danger though, is if the can is old or has sat in your hot car, and lost pressure without you knowing it. I have seen cans of OP squirt out a stream that would make a man with prostate cancer ashamed. In a ground fight, you simply do not have the range to use it effectively, and if your attacker's shoulder had rubbed across your face, guess what? You would be fighting blind. I don't like pepper spray. I expect any fight I will be in to be going to the ground quickly, and this is to much of a risk for me.
Knives. A better weapon IMHO. If you can legally carry a 5-6 inch knife (non-folder) in a boot, you will not likely find a better weapon in a ground fight. The real questions are what is legal, and will you use it effectively. This is not a disabling weapon. This is a deadly weapon. The bad thing about knives is if you end up in front of a jury, they tend to be seen as even worse than a gun. Carrying knives are considered by many people to be a sign of a low class hoodlum looking for trouble. That does not negate their effectiveness in a fight though. If you know your laws, get an effective knife, train with it, and are willing to use it, it's hard to beat. Knives don't run out of ammo. The real risk is the aftermath of legal issues.
Guns. There are two basic types of handgun. Semi-Autos and Revolvers. I like them both and have no real prejudices. Many people like semi-autos best. I will say that in a close in fight for your life a revolver is superior. Why? Because you can jam a revolver into your assailant's ribs and fire it repeatedly. If you do this with a semi-auto, you will push it out of battery and it will not fire.
Many people say that the revolver is handicapped because of capacity. On the surface, this would seem to be the case. In a running gun battle at any distance, it would be handicapped. The reality of attacks on the street though are not running gun battles, but quick unsuspected take downs and beatings on the ground. You do not have to hold your ground with your gun. You only need to use it as a tool to facilitate your escape to safety. In your attack, escape was likely less than 50 feet. In this scenerio, a tool to facilitate escape, capacity means less, effectiveness means more. My vote is for a snubnose revolver. I carry one, so don't think I am recommending a "lesser" gun for a novice or a woman. The snubbie revolver is the finest real world close in fighting handgun around. Buy one with a shrouded hammer or a concealed hammer for ease of drawing. Buy it in .357magnum for penetration at muzzle contact. If you opt for .38spl, carry +P ammo (this is my compromise). Buy a quality gun. Think Smith & Wesson.
Finally, I know you are young and do not want this kind of thing to control what you want to do with your life. Realize how important effective realistic self preservation is though. When you think about going to a place like California, do not rationalize away you need for protection. I don't think you would go to Baghdad without any protection, why would you want to go elsewhere and walk unprotected. You can die just as easily in either place. Personal attacks in California are less likely than in Baghdad you say? Are they? It's a gamble isn't it? Do you gamble with your life often?
Welcome to the Firing Line! I hope you stick around. I'm sorry for the long treatise, my oldest daughter was raped a couple of years ago at the age of 21. This is basically how I talked with her. I hope you are not offended by my words, they are made with the best of intent. The most important thing for protecting yourself though, is that voice of intuition, the one we try to rationalize away. The one that just may be saying "California? Wait a minute, I can't carry a gun there........" Listen to that voice and be protected by it.
I, too, am sorry you had to go through this experience.
I'm going to be brutally honest here. There are times that a person just cannot prevent an attack. This, though, likely was not one of them. I would wager a weeks pay that this guy did not just happen to find himself in a ladies bathroom, lock the door and then discover you there. You were likely either seen entering the bathroom, or more likely seen elsewhere and followed. Rapists do not randomly check women's bathrooms. They select victims and stalk them until the victim places themselves in a place of vulnerability.
In today's age, it is not popular to point out what a rape victim could have done better to avoid the horrific experience of rape. It is called "blaming the victim" by the very people who seek to remove the woman's options of self defense. In reality, self examination and scutiny of the incident is necessary to protect yourself from a reoccurance. When a man gets beat to the ground, it's OK to say "He should not have done __________(fill in the blank). When a woman is raped, or a rape is attempted, it is not politically correct to do the same. Put that nonsense aside, and examine your own actions, intuitions, and thoughts prior to the incident. Realize that the best way to prevent your particular event would have been to never go into that bathroom alone.
I once read that humans are the only animals on Earth that rationalize away their fear. All other animals, from lions to dolphins, to fruit flies act on fear. Humans want to believe their world is safe and active self preservation is not necessary, so they convince themselves that their intuition is wrong, and that unsafe actions and unsafe places are indeed safe. The real world is not what ought to be, but what is. Sometimes this rationalization is so imbedded we do not even know we have supressed our intuitive voice that is trying to warn us.
So where does this leave us? While in the mall, did you have any inkling you were being followed or observed? When you went into the bathroom, did you have any feeling of the same? Did you have any reservations at all? If so, realize that was the little intuitive voice that will save your butt, and respect and cultivate it. If not, become more observant. I am not saying become paranoid, but more aware of what is happening around you. Realize that it is the voice, the intuition, the fear, that will save you, not pepper spray, not a knife, and not a gun.
Here is a good link to read up on. Keep an open mind and read it.No Nonsense Self Defense
Now, here are my thoughts on rape protection (not prevention) with tools instead of wits. If all else goes to a handbasket, and you were unable to detect a potential threat and are about to be raped, the encounter will be close quarters and swift. There will be an attempt to immediately overpower you with force, likely from behind. You will likely not be exchanging blows, but wrestling for control and escape.
To escape you MUST neutralize your attacker. You did this with a kick to the groin. Very good. You had that option and used it. It worked. Thankfully he did not have a friend along for the ride. You did what many other women could not do. Be proud of yourself.
But now you want a weapon. Realize that the weapon is not a magic talisman, but a tool to help you survive. Your determination and aggressiveness when attacked, which you have already demonstrated, is the magic talisman. Get the tool, but hone the correct talisman.
You have several weapons choices. I'll talk about each in relation to a close in on the ground type fight for your life.Pepper Spray. As you saw, aim is vital with this stuff. The real danger though, is if the can is old or has sat in your hot car, and lost pressure without you knowing it. I have seen cans of OP squirt out a stream that would make a man with prostate cancer ashamed. In a ground fight, you simply do not have the range to use it effectively, and if your attacker's shoulder had rubbed across your face, guess what? You would be fighting blind. I don't like pepper spray. I expect any fight I will be in to be going to the ground quickly, and this is to much of a risk for me.
Knives. A better weapon IMHO. If you can legally carry a 5-6 inch knife (non-folder) in a boot, you will not likely find a better weapon in a ground fight. The real questions are what is legal, and will you use it effectively. This is not a disabling weapon. This is a deadly weapon. The bad thing about knives is if you end up in front of a jury, they tend to be seen as even worse than a gun. Carrying knives are considered by many people to be a sign of a low class hoodlum looking for trouble. That does not negate their effectiveness in a fight though. If you know your laws, get an effective knife, train with it, and are willing to use it, it's hard to beat. Knives don't run out of ammo. The real risk is the aftermath of legal issues.
Guns. There are two basic types of handgun. Semi-Autos and Revolvers. I like them both and have no real prejudices. Many people like semi-autos best. I will say that in a close in fight for your life a revolver is superior. Why? Because you can jam a revolver into your assailant's ribs and fire it repeatedly. If you do this with a semi-auto, you will push it out of battery and it will not fire.
Many people say that the revolver is handicapped because of capacity. On the surface, this would seem to be the case. In a running gun battle at any distance, it would be handicapped. The reality of attacks on the street though are not running gun battles, but quick unsuspected take downs and beatings on the ground. You do not have to hold your ground with your gun. You only need to use it as a tool to facilitate your escape to safety. In your attack, escape was likely less than 50 feet. In this scenerio, a tool to facilitate escape, capacity means less, effectiveness means more. My vote is for a snubnose revolver. I carry one, so don't think I am recommending a "lesser" gun for a novice or a woman. The snubbie revolver is the finest real world close in fighting handgun around. Buy one with a shrouded hammer or a concealed hammer for ease of drawing. Buy it in .357magnum for penetration at muzzle contact. If you opt for .38spl, carry +P ammo (this is my compromise). Buy a quality gun. Think Smith & Wesson.
Finally, I know you are young and do not want this kind of thing to control what you want to do with your life. Realize how important effective realistic self preservation is though. When you think about going to a place like California, do not rationalize away you need for protection. I don't think you would go to Baghdad without any protection, why would you want to go elsewhere and walk unprotected. You can die just as easily in either place. Personal attacks in California are less likely than in Baghdad you say? Are they? It's a gamble isn't it? Do you gamble with your life often?
Welcome to the Firing Line! I hope you stick around. I'm sorry for the long treatise, my oldest daughter was raped a couple of years ago at the age of 21. This is basically how I talked with her. I hope you are not offended by my words, they are made with the best of intent. The most important thing for protecting yourself though, is that voice of intuition, the one we try to rationalize away. The one that just may be saying "California? Wait a minute, I can't carry a gun there........" Listen to that voice and be protected by it.
If you wisely choose to avoid moving to California, that would not be giving into fear, it would however show you are not willing to give into the foolish politicians and liberal elites who want control over your life too - those who think you are not responsible enough, your not entitled enough, to handle your own safety. It is one thing to live out here in a nice gated community with security patrols, private parks and schools and pools etc., it is another thing to live 'out there', just down the road in the real world. And it is only going to get worse here for the legal gun owner - which means it will only be a matter of time before violent crime increases more then ever - it always does. We see it now as stupid law after stupid law comes down the pipe in attempts to limit our rights to self-preservation.
If a loved one in my life had a situation as you described, I really think I would find a way to get them to carry, no matter what those idiots who try to rule us think. Its YOUR life. In this case, a gun would have to be comparatively small - something like a PPK/S or Sig .380 size for real concealability. I am partial to semis, but I would back up her choice as long as she could handle the weapon easily and consistently.
If a loved one in my life had a situation as you described, I really think I would find a way to get them to carry, no matter what those idiots who try to rule us think. Its YOUR life. In this case, a gun would have to be comparatively small - something like a PPK/S or Sig .380 size for real concealability. I am partial to semis, but I would back up her choice as long as she could handle the weapon easily and consistently.
You have my profound sympathies for having to enduring this experience; it should happen to no one and punishment should be severe. You should be most pleased with the way you handled both yourself and the situation.
Unfortunately, as you have already learned, both California and Illinois are among the most “firearms unfriendly” states. While they simply cannot provide sufficient protection from felons, they refuse to allow individuals to adequately protect themselves.
I would like to offer a few suggestions:
a) A bid dog: always highly protective, intimidating to strangers, great to its friends, and equipped with senses that far exceed humans’.
b) A mid-size, top-quality .357 magnum revolver, such as a Ruger GP100/KGP-141 or a Smith and Wesson 686 (L Frame). These are “do everything very well weapons”: Strong, top quality, accurate, safe, very durable and reliable, and easy to master. In addition, they accommodate the full range of both .38 Special and .357 magnum rounds, thereby allowing you to practice inexpensively and to defend yourself potently. Many individuals favor autoloaders; however, the proven reliability, simplicity, accuracy, safety, and durability of top-quality revolvers is very difficult to beat, especially for a first sidearm. Some also suggest six rounds is inferior to a semiautomatic’s ten-round -- or considerably greater -- capacity; however, the probability of requiring this firearm at all -- no less needing more than six rounds -- is very small indeed.
c) Training: Take some self-defense classes and, should you choose to have a handgun, learn from an experienced, well-qualified person, remember safety is paramount and practice, practice, practice.
With best regards.
Unfortunately, as you have already learned, both California and Illinois are among the most “firearms unfriendly” states. While they simply cannot provide sufficient protection from felons, they refuse to allow individuals to adequately protect themselves.
I would like to offer a few suggestions:
a) A bid dog: always highly protective, intimidating to strangers, great to its friends, and equipped with senses that far exceed humans’.
b) A mid-size, top-quality .357 magnum revolver, such as a Ruger GP100/KGP-141 or a Smith and Wesson 686 (L Frame). These are “do everything very well weapons”: Strong, top quality, accurate, safe, very durable and reliable, and easy to master. In addition, they accommodate the full range of both .38 Special and .357 magnum rounds, thereby allowing you to practice inexpensively and to defend yourself potently. Many individuals favor autoloaders; however, the proven reliability, simplicity, accuracy, safety, and durability of top-quality revolvers is very difficult to beat, especially for a first sidearm. Some also suggest six rounds is inferior to a semiautomatic’s ten-round -- or considerably greater -- capacity; however, the probability of requiring this firearm at all -- no less needing more than six rounds -- is very small indeed.
c) Training: Take some self-defense classes and, should you choose to have a handgun, learn from an experienced, well-qualified person, remember safety is paramount and practice, practice, practice.
With best regards.
It will not be impossible to get a CCW in northern San Diego county. I would research packing.org for more info. It seems in this instance, a gun or other weapon would have been useless, if not an increased danger. When he had a knife, you could fight back without an unbearable risk. Imagine if he had gotten the gun away from her and held it to her head during the attack..scary! CCW in the hands of the untrained is a bad idea. Anyone who goes out and buys a gun and just starts carrying, especially when they have not been around them is a really bad idea.
My 0.02 is to move where you like (california gun law is bad, but not as bad as some say, not as bad as IL it sounds from this. I know an aweful lot of people with CCW here...not totally uncommon). San Diego, especially north county is one of the nicest parts of So Cal. Just keep an eye out, as threats are anywhere, but at least you are not moving to the hood!
Take some self defense classes for women, and if you feel the need, move up to handgun and ccw classes. You will probably get your permit after proper training is verified. I would also venture to say aside from self defense class, making friends to go shopping with may be the best bet of them all.
My 0.02 is to move where you like (california gun law is bad, but not as bad as some say, not as bad as IL it sounds from this. I know an aweful lot of people with CCW here...not totally uncommon). San Diego, especially north county is one of the nicest parts of So Cal. Just keep an eye out, as threats are anywhere, but at least you are not moving to the hood!
Take some self defense classes for women, and if you feel the need, move up to handgun and ccw classes. You will probably get your permit after proper training is verified. I would also venture to say aside from self defense class, making friends to go shopping with may be the best bet of them all.
progunner1957
Moderator
Prepare to survive the next attack you may face
Alyssa,
First of all, thank God you escaped with "only" a cut requiring 10 stitches! As you well know, it could have been much worse. It is a sad fact of life in the year 2005 that we are all subject to such an attack and must therefore be ready to protect ourselves by any and all means available.
Regarding guns, take a look at the small Glocks - 27 (.40S&W), 30 (.45ACP) and the mini 9mm (can't recall the model #). Kahr also makes some very carryable autos, as does Para Ordinance. As far as revolvers, Taurus makes a 5 shot .44 special snubbie that is small enough to carry and is a serious defensive handgun. Taurus and Smith & Wesson make several very good .38 special snubby revolvers.
As far as "weapon retention training," the best weapon retention technique is this: SHOOT YOUR ATTACKER!! If you had put a hollowpoint bullet in the same spot as your deflected pepper spray shot went, I suspect that would have stopped your attacker cold. People usually have a change of heart once a bullet rips into them and they see their own blood flowing.
Knives can also be a viable option, if getting a CCW is impossible. When using a knife, go for maximum damage to the attacker - stab and then slash, creating as big of a wound channel as possible. The most effective knife wound is not just one stab, but one that will take scores of stitches to close. This type wound will be both a physical and psychological trauma to your attacker and will require medical attention, making the chances of catching him much greater. You don't need a "Rambo" knife, just one with a blade length of 4 to 6 inches to be effective. A fixed blade knife is a better choice than a folder, although there are many good, strong folders that would also be a good choice. As with a firearm, learning to use your knife effectively is a must.
If you buy a gun, training is vital. Owning a gun is not enough; you must know how and when to use it. This is something that does not come naturally - it must be learned. Please make time to get some competent training, and make time to go to a shooting range and practice.
I hope you will give all this some serious thought - we are talking about issues of life and death here. Your survival will be based on whether or not you have equipped yourself and whether or not you are skilled in the use of your firearm and/or knife. A comittment to learn the skills you need is extremely important and will determine the outcome of any future attack you may be faced with.
Preparing to survive a violent attack requires time, training and practice and yes, it can be an inconvenience, given how busy our lives can be. IMHO, being brutalized at the hands of a cold-blooded criminal predator is one h*ll of alot more inconvenient than preparing to survive the attack.
Best of luck.
Alyssa,
First of all, thank God you escaped with "only" a cut requiring 10 stitches! As you well know, it could have been much worse. It is a sad fact of life in the year 2005 that we are all subject to such an attack and must therefore be ready to protect ourselves by any and all means available.
Regarding guns, take a look at the small Glocks - 27 (.40S&W), 30 (.45ACP) and the mini 9mm (can't recall the model #). Kahr also makes some very carryable autos, as does Para Ordinance. As far as revolvers, Taurus makes a 5 shot .44 special snubbie that is small enough to carry and is a serious defensive handgun. Taurus and Smith & Wesson make several very good .38 special snubby revolvers.
As far as "weapon retention training," the best weapon retention technique is this: SHOOT YOUR ATTACKER!! If you had put a hollowpoint bullet in the same spot as your deflected pepper spray shot went, I suspect that would have stopped your attacker cold. People usually have a change of heart once a bullet rips into them and they see their own blood flowing.
Knives can also be a viable option, if getting a CCW is impossible. When using a knife, go for maximum damage to the attacker - stab and then slash, creating as big of a wound channel as possible. The most effective knife wound is not just one stab, but one that will take scores of stitches to close. This type wound will be both a physical and psychological trauma to your attacker and will require medical attention, making the chances of catching him much greater. You don't need a "Rambo" knife, just one with a blade length of 4 to 6 inches to be effective. A fixed blade knife is a better choice than a folder, although there are many good, strong folders that would also be a good choice. As with a firearm, learning to use your knife effectively is a must.
If you buy a gun, training is vital. Owning a gun is not enough; you must know how and when to use it. This is something that does not come naturally - it must be learned. Please make time to get some competent training, and make time to go to a shooting range and practice.
I hope you will give all this some serious thought - we are talking about issues of life and death here. Your survival will be based on whether or not you have equipped yourself and whether or not you are skilled in the use of your firearm and/or knife. A comittment to learn the skills you need is extremely important and will determine the outcome of any future attack you may be faced with.
Preparing to survive a violent attack requires time, training and practice and yes, it can be an inconvenience, given how busy our lives can be. IMHO, being brutalized at the hands of a cold-blooded criminal predator is one h*ll of alot more inconvenient than preparing to survive the attack.
Best of luck.
spacemanspiff
New member
one tip if you are going to carry a knife, for defensive purposes, don't hold it like you would a butterknife. hold it like you would an icepick with the edge of the blade away from you.
i commend your willingness to fight for your life and your dignity. i'm sure you've heard of the 'flight or fight' reaction? for some 'fright' is the only reaction they can come up with.
its probably also been mentioned, but a good Surefire flashlight can be a great distraction device. best of all, a handheld flashlight is not considered a 'weapon' and as far as i know, you should have no worries carrying it either in IL or CA. the Surefire Defender has a crenellated strike bezel , so you can use it on your attackers pressure points.
i commend your willingness to fight for your life and your dignity. i'm sure you've heard of the 'flight or fight' reaction? for some 'fright' is the only reaction they can come up with.
its probably also been mentioned, but a good Surefire flashlight can be a great distraction device. best of all, a handheld flashlight is not considered a 'weapon' and as far as i know, you should have no worries carrying it either in IL or CA. the Surefire Defender has a crenellated strike bezel , so you can use it on your attackers pressure points.
IMHO this situation would not have been improved with the introduction of a firearm. On the contrary, it would have had a far worse outcome.
A women's restroom in a mall is usually remote enough to invite predators. My wife and daughter never go alone. I will accompany and wait outside---always.
Having served in the military and working on the streets, I can assure you that "shooting the assailant in the shoulder would have ended the assault" would not necessarily have been the case. I have seen indivuals that had taken several rounds in the torso that would not go down. To think one round in the shoulder would end it all is wishful thinking.
A women's restroom in a mall is usually remote enough to invite predators. My wife and daughter never go alone. I will accompany and wait outside---always.
Having served in the military and working on the streets, I can assure you that "shooting the assailant in the shoulder would have ended the assault" would not necessarily have been the case. I have seen indivuals that had taken several rounds in the torso that would not go down. To think one round in the shoulder would end it all is wishful thinking.
spacemanspiff
New member
pshhawww! when i get married i'll make my wife wear adult diapers so she doesnt have to go into public restrooms.
XavierBreath
New member
Don't it da truth?
spacemanspiff
New member
ohhhh thats a good one guys! almost had me fooled with that little tidbit! then i remembered that women will think what i tell them to think.
alright i suppose we shouldnt hijack alyssa's thread anymore.
alright i suppose we shouldnt hijack alyssa's thread anymore.
"one tip if you are going to carry a knife, for defensive purposes, don't hold it like you would a butterknife. hold it like you would an icepick with the edge of the blade away from you."
A whole lot of Kali and Selat practitioners might disagree with you about the edge position.....
A whole lot of Kali and Selat practitioners might disagree with you about the edge position.....
kungfucowboy
New member
you can make either of the 3 work some ppl hold it like a sword (or simliar to griping an escrima stick). some do the ice pick stealth thing with the blade towards you or away. wich is better is like asking wich shooting stance is best. it's what every you have trained the most with and are most comfortable with. The only real weapon is a persons mind everything else is just a tool so training will always be the best investment.
CobrayCommando
Moderator
Well LA county gun laws are so bad I believe only 300 people out of 16 million (not counting illegals) are carrying concealed legally. But 1 million are carrying illegally, so maybe you should too, considering the first time you get caught carrying concealed without a permit its a 200 dollar fine (of course you will be a felon, but...)
Its either run the risk of being raped again, or lessen those odds by carrying a knife, or lessen them even more by carrying a gun and training with it.
Oh and asking which grip is better is nothing like asking which stance is better. The ice pick grip is crap. Its as simple as that, unless your creeping up behind someone and assassinating them, its a grip you shouldn't use with a knife. Either hammer or fencing is far better in every respect.
Its either run the risk of being raped again, or lessen those odds by carrying a knife, or lessen them even more by carrying a gun and training with it.
Oh and asking which grip is better is nothing like asking which stance is better. The ice pick grip is crap. Its as simple as that, unless your creeping up behind someone and assassinating them, its a grip you shouldn't use with a knife. Either hammer or fencing is far better in every respect.
spacemanspiff
New member
true, i was also factoring in that the female physicque typically would have weaker slashes and jabs with the 'butterknife' hold. heck even me being a manly man doesnt even try the butterknife hold. i go straight for the icepick.
CobrayCommando
Moderator
I shouldn't have blatantly insulted the grip you use like I did, I just strongly believe that it shouldn't be used for combat. When training with rubber knives several friends and I discovered that the ice pick will only get you killed, often even fighting an unarmed person.