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Private Gun sales-- Warning!
- Thread starter Sevens
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youngunz4life
New member
my thing is, and I know it might be overkill to some...
I agree with this. I like bills of sales. I also Respect many posters here that would say "shove it".
Also filling out a form in a private sale is laughable in my opinion. The sale would stall without the bill of sale though, and this would be the case whether I was a buyer or seller. I would mention it non-chalantly at the beginning, and it would be instinct whether I ever saw this thread or not.
Basically what I do is, I am getting the bill of sale on a piece of paper. I am offering you a copy. I really don't care as long as I get a copy - you can have the original, but usually many people don't seem to care about having a copy anyways- falls into the category of whatever floats your boat. I would always have 2 copies when all is said and done(on my own time afterwards) or possibly an original and a copy.
I am not copying driver's licenses, CCW cards, etc. I am writing in ink on a piece of paper my name and your name preferrably with middle initials as well as the intent of the transaction and the date of sale. both will be signed, and like with a car you write down the vehicle number and some other stuff(make/year of car), I'm writing down the serial# and the kind of gun and what state(maybe the county and maybe not as only state is what matters to me). there is no personal trail for the most part, but I am the king of having stuff like this saved in the file cabinet. I will cover my butt when I can whether I need to or not. never had a problem getting this stuff, but am ok if people want to backoff - that falls into the category of their own business, and on that day business won't be taken care of.
First time I sold a gun, I wrote up a bill of sale naming the weapon model, and the serial number, along with a disclaimer saying no accessories, ammunition, or warranty.
I printed out two copies, I printed and signed both, as did the buyer. Afterwards, we parted ways.
I agree with this. I like bills of sales. I also Respect many posters here that would say "shove it".
Also filling out a form in a private sale is laughable in my opinion. The sale would stall without the bill of sale though, and this would be the case whether I was a buyer or seller. I would mention it non-chalantly at the beginning, and it would be instinct whether I ever saw this thread or not.
Basically what I do is, I am getting the bill of sale on a piece of paper. I am offering you a copy. I really don't care as long as I get a copy - you can have the original, but usually many people don't seem to care about having a copy anyways- falls into the category of whatever floats your boat. I would always have 2 copies when all is said and done(on my own time afterwards) or possibly an original and a copy.
I am not copying driver's licenses, CCW cards, etc. I am writing in ink on a piece of paper my name and your name preferrably with middle initials as well as the intent of the transaction and the date of sale. both will be signed, and like with a car you write down the vehicle number and some other stuff(make/year of car), I'm writing down the serial# and the kind of gun and what state(maybe the county and maybe not as only state is what matters to me). there is no personal trail for the most part, but I am the king of having stuff like this saved in the file cabinet. I will cover my butt when I can whether I need to or not. never had a problem getting this stuff, but am ok if people want to backoff - that falls into the category of their own business, and on that day business won't be taken care of.
IrishGuy824
Inactive
I'm glad I happened to come across this thread on a Yahoo! search.
I'm getting ready to probably sell my wife's gun (Kahr CW9 with 2 magazines). She's not a fan of having to rack the slide to chamber a round and wants to get a revolver instead. Since you don't get jack at a gun store for it, I figure sell it privately and use the money to buy the revolver.
I think I am going to insist on doing a bill of sale when the transaction is done. This way if the new owner uses the gun for an illegal purpose or its stolen from the new owner and used for an illegal purpose and then ditched, I have documentation that the gun was legally sold so if the serial number on her gun was run when it came back to her we could (hopefully) be cleared of any wrongdoing.
Here's what I'm thinking for the B.O.S.:
-Make/model of gun and serial number
-A statement that the gun is being sold to a person who has given no indication that they are prohibited to buy said gun
-Signatures as they are in the drivers licenses of both seller and buyer with name printed underneath signature
The only other demand I would have is to see the buyer's drivers license to make sure that the buyer is of age and a resident of the State of Ohio.
I'm getting ready to probably sell my wife's gun (Kahr CW9 with 2 magazines). She's not a fan of having to rack the slide to chamber a round and wants to get a revolver instead. Since you don't get jack at a gun store for it, I figure sell it privately and use the money to buy the revolver.
I think I am going to insist on doing a bill of sale when the transaction is done. This way if the new owner uses the gun for an illegal purpose or its stolen from the new owner and used for an illegal purpose and then ditched, I have documentation that the gun was legally sold so if the serial number on her gun was run when it came back to her we could (hopefully) be cleared of any wrongdoing.
Here's what I'm thinking for the B.O.S.:
-Make/model of gun and serial number
-A statement that the gun is being sold to a person who has given no indication that they are prohibited to buy said gun
-Signatures as they are in the drivers licenses of both seller and buyer with name printed underneath signature
The only other demand I would have is to see the buyer's drivers license to make sure that the buyer is of age and a resident of the State of Ohio.
This is why I do not have a problem with the Illinois Firearm Owner Identification card. (FOID) For private sales, you ask the buyer for his FOID card. If he / she produces a non-expired card, you can be reasonably assured he can legally own a firearm. No, it's not 100%, but it's better than simply taking his word for it. Trust me, Illinois is very quick at revoking FOID cards. In the case of my ex son-in-law, a county deputy came to his home and took his card from him. This happened with in just a few days of being convicted of a felony.
IrishGuy, are you going to have it witnessed? Notarized?
Don't you think your normal lifestyle and schedule and aliases would likely keep you in the clear from a dead hooker gunned down in her prime by a Kahr CW9 and two magazines?
Just make sure you let any potential buyer know up front about the silly BOS so they can skip the meet up. It's total nonsense.
Don't you think your normal lifestyle and schedule and aliases would likely keep you in the clear from a dead hooker gunned down in her prime by a Kahr CW9 and two magazines?
Just make sure you let any potential buyer know up front about the silly BOS so they can skip the meet up. It's total nonsense.
A gun I sold in a private sale was used in NJ in a armed robbery and it came back to me. So in my opinion get the following on the bill of sale, and before all this takes place ask for his drivers license and CCW permit making sure the address and photos match and the photo matches the person handing it to you. I say the CCW permit because its the only way you can per-say know he's allowed to own a firearm without YOU doing a background check. Its called COVER YOUR KEISTERHere's what I'm thinking for the B.O.S.:
Buyers name address CCW license number you sign it and the buyer signs it.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Nonsense to you, perhaps. But why should we pay attention to your opinion in this?Sevens said:...the silly BOS so they can skip the meet up. It's total nonsense.
Mike Irwin
Staff
OK, just so everyone knows, this thread is over FIVE years old, so if you ask questions to anyone who participated in the thread back in October 2011, please recognize that they may no longer be participating at TFL.
That said, I think this is one of those cases where keeping an older thread open with new responses is justified, as this is an important topic.
That said, I think this is one of those cases where keeping an older thread open with new responses is justified, as this is an important topic.
I'm glad this thread was resurrected. The guns I've sold or bought in private sales have been family or friends of friends etc. All Ohio requires is good faith. A handshake (if so inclined) and money exchange will do. If I sold to a stranger in a parking lot I would use my gut. Sorry to say but if I don't like the looks of the person I keep driving. Don't believe in writing down people's information. Wouldn't hold up in court anyway. If a DA wanted to drill you for an illegal sale that piece of paper won't matter.
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Frank Ettin
Administrator
Really? How do you know? What are you basing your opinion on? Can you cite any legal authority to support your opinion?Ramey said:...Don't believe in writing down people's information. Wouldn't hold up in court anyway. If a DA wanted to drill you for an illegal sale that piece of paper won't matter.
It's certainly been my experience in my 30 + years practicing law that documentation does help. A note containing information such as suggested in post 43, when made contemporaneously with the transaction, will be considered corroboration for your testimony about the transaction. While your credibility can always be challenged, it less likely to be successfully challenged if it's back-up with documentary corroboration.
Really? How do you know? What are you basing your opinion on? Can you cite any legal authority to support your opinion?
It's certainly been my experience in my 30 + years practicing law that documentation does help. A note containing information such as suggested in post 43, when made contemporaneously with the transaction, will be considered corroboration for your testimony about the transaction. While your credibility can always be challenged, it less likely to be successfully challenged if it's back-up with documentary corroboration.
It is my opinion that: A) a b.o.s or fake 4473 form defeats the purpose a private sale.
and
B) a paper document that could easily have been drawn up after the fact would not hold much weight in court
Again these are my opinions
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kilimanjaro
New member
Any document can be created after a sale, that does not make all documents offered as evidence to be forgeries. Your rationale for private sales is pretty shakey. If you don't want paperwork, say so, but don't conjure up nonsense to support yourself with.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Ramey said:.... Again these are my opinions.
In other words they're your opinions plucked out of thin air with nothing to support them except your desire that they be true. But many things people believe aren't true in real life, nor does one's belief change reality.
All opinions are not equal. The opinions of my doctor about matters of my health warrant more serious attention than those of the guy behind the convenience store counter. An opinion backed up by evidence, relevant education, and/or applicable experience is one thing. An opinion plucked out of the air is another and is not worth serious attention.
Wow, since when did we need experience and accreditation to back up our opinions?. If you only want expert opinions then this forum would be ALOT smaller. I used to really enjoy spending my time here , but lately there has been a lot of ultra PC condescending "experts" ruining my experience.
An opinion plucked out of the air is another and is not worth serious attention.
Evidently it was worth YOUR attention...seeing you can't stop talking about it.
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Frank Ettin
Administrator
Pretty much since the beginning of time. Opinions that can't be supported are not, and never have been, worth much.Eazyeach said:Wow, since when did we need experience and accreditation to back up our opinions?...
What use is an opinion that can't be supported? There's already more than enough bad information floating around in cyberspace.
Interesting.Eazyeach said:... there has been a lot of ultra PC condescending "experts" ruining my experience.
Good information supported by evidence and/or experience is somehow politically correct and ruins your experience? You'd prefer bad information and specious opinions?
Only so that folks who might be interested in actually llearning something don't mistake your opinions for anything useful.Ramey said:Evidently it was worth YOUR attention...seeing you can't stop talking about it.
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Pretty much since the beginning of time. Opinions that can't be supported are not, and never have been, worth much.
What use is an opinion that can't be supported? There's already more than enough bad information floating around in cyberspace.
Interesting.
Good information supported by evidence and/or experience ruins is somehow politically correct and ruins your experience? You'd prefer bad information and specious opinions?
Only so that folks who might be interested in actually llearning something don't mistake your opinions for anything useful.
Wow. I hope you're a better lawyer than you are a forum member. Have a nice day frank.
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