Prefered elk cartridge for a 300 yard shot.

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My father is 76 now and two years ago, after three elk hit in two years and not retrieved, I told him no more. I tracked one in 2 feet of snow and 10F for over 5 miles and never got it. He was shooting a 7mm Mag.

Last year, I hit an elk, from 225 to 300 yards, 5 times out of 5 with a .338 at dusk, in about 12" of snow and 15F. I thought I hit it 4 out of 5, but upon butchering, I had hit the elk 5 times. 4 were fatal for sure and 2 clipped the heart. I kept shooting due to the time, weather and location.

Elk are tough, and while I the .338 hits a little harder, the .30-06 is plenty. I have lost two elk with my .338-06, both were shot and tagged by another hunter before I could finish them. Never lost one with the .30-06, and I have shot more with the .30-06. That said, CoreLokts are crap bullets for elk and Ballistic tips are not much better, except for the perfect heart or head shot.

I guess I agree with those who say it is not the cartridge that is the issue. Telling my dad I would not let him elk hunt with me again was pretty rough, and there were consequences, but it was the right thing to do. I hope to get him out for deer or pronghorn again, but his health is not great right now. I wish you the best in dealing with a tough circumstance.
 
Thanks MarkCo, I lost my father last year and can't share any more hunts with him. Trying to please older men is not always easy. Especially a fIL too stubborn for his own good. Hopefully your father's health will improve before season rolls around. My fil's shots have always proved fatal just trying to stop them before they get in the rough stuff. I'm truely amazed to see how few people actually shoot the big powder burners for elk anymore. I know they aren't necessary but I'm gona keep mine a couple more years.
 
Unless you hit an elk in the brain or spine in the upper neck, it will probably not drop instantly. To avoid having the elk drop in to the ravine it might be better to hunt from the edge of the ravine on the side that provides the most likely opportunity to shoot an elk. Getting a more powerful rifle is not the solution to elk falling into a ravine after being shot. I'm sorry if this offends you or your father-in-law, but I have been hunting for more than 60 years, and have used my own reloads for nearly all of my rifle hunting in Minnesota, Missouri, Colorado, Wyoming and Montana. I shot my last elk coming straight at me at less than 25 yards. The elk dropped within 25 yards. On the same hunt I took a small (130 lbs.) black bear at more than 400 yards. The bear dropped instantly. Both with a .300 Win Mag, a cartridge larger than necessary for elk and certainly larger than necessary for Montana black bear.
 
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No hurt feelings here. It's amazing the level of trauma some animals can take and keep going. It's funny as one of the neighbors to our property up there using nothing but a 243. I've seen past threads on here people saying it is too small. Magnums are too big by most standards. My all time favorite is the 308. I feel confident anytime it's in my hands in any place I've ever been. I guess some mornings I just feel like grabbing one of the big boys. I used them alot more when range finders weren't around. I'm still not good at judging distance in rough country with elk. I grew up in hills with whitetail not mountains with elk. Felt like I got a few extra yards of forgiveness if I misjudged distance. That's irrelevant now as I don't take a shot I'm not 100% sure of the distance.
 
I shoot a 375 H&H Mag and I would have no concern about taking an Elk at 300 yards with a 270-300gr bullet and he or she will not travel far after that if at all. The trajectory is about the same as a 30-06 and the recoil is about the same as a 300 Win Mag, maybe a little lighter as its not a punch like the 300 but more of a shove.
 
Boogershooter, If your hunting private land in Co it's lot different than hunting public land here. I don't have elk on my land but have some pretty nice deer and had couple B&C/P&Y over the years.

What you can't do on public land is have wounded elk running around as he who kills it tags it. I live in Plains unit and buddy has ranch that I can hunt on for elk but that's like shooting ducks in a rain barrel and be same if I drew deer tag for my place.
 
270 Win. 150 Gr, Hornady IB.

365 yards, this lady went about 75 yards, but it was rolling down hill into the creek.

Cow%20Elk.JPG
 
The private land we hunt is my wife's grandfather's land. 3 tracts in 3 separate units. He was smart and gave his kids and grandkids a small section each on each tract. Of course some already sold out because they don't hunt. Only one track has decent hunting. One tract has never had anything killed on it to my knowledge. The good tract is the smallest. We average 2 or 3 bulls a year. Mule deer about 1 every other year. This is between 9 hunters but only 4 serious hunters. Her uncle doesn't like elk so he hunts the mule deer. Fil scores every year and usually sees both mule deer and elk. My wife's grandmother scores every other year but shoots cows only. My wife has only scored once but she usually stays around camp with the kids. My oldest boy I think is going to hunt this year but he doesn't like the cold weather. In 9 years that I've been going I have scored every year but Im the only one that hunts all day. All we pay for is tags but that is still an expensive trip for me. I make sure I bring elk meat home every year. My kids are 13, 10, 9, and 6. They can consume meat faster than a grizzly bear lol.
 
I've been banking on 30-06 for several years now. I'm very sure that 300 is possible, although I've never had to go past 200.
If the real issue is that he just doesn't like the recoil from a 30-06, then I'm not sure if the others would be an improvement, except maybe the 264WinMag.

Maybe get a bigger scope? Then it won't seem like 300 yards... lol
 
I feel your pain Boogershooter, there is no cure for hard head and stubborn, and nothing more frustrating. Good luck and let us know how it turns out this fall.

Kraigwy, loved that photo the first time you posted it and still do today, great shot. This is however the first time I noticed your sling is in the water!
 
In short simple terms my fil has the best spot on the property. It's a small open meadow on the east side of the mountain hidden by big thick timber. He sits above it on a open rock face where the elk neither see him or smell him. They travel thru it daily as they head down thru the thick stuff. Problem is it is between 250 to 300 yards. Most of the elk he has shot makes it thru the meadow down a ravine into the nasty stuff. He's never lost one but it does make recovery a pita. He wants something to stop them before they get there. He knows I have dropped elk in their tracks with my magnums but I don't shoot that far. It's a lost cause but I figured I would ask on here incase somebody could clue me in on something I didn't know. Alot of things could change except for him. He refuses to change anything. He's a huge fan of 30-06 and doesn't doubt it's capability but he's fishing for a miracle cure. Hope this clears somethings up.
 
What bullet?

I have no doubts about the 30-06's ability on elk at that range. Pretty much any decent bullet will kill an elk, but harder bullets tend to penetrate deeper making them a better option for bad angles. But as a rule game tends to travel farther before dying with that type of bullet.

Softer bullets that expand quickly tend to drop game faster. But don't work well unless they can be placed into the lungs with a broadside shot. The trend today is toward harder bullets that give very good penetration and usually an exit wound. But it sounds like he is in a spot where he can wait for the perfect angle and use a bullet that expands more rapidly.
 
I wouldn't put the nix on his hunting elk with you. I'm 75 and while we usually won't admit it, these suddenly ( or so it seems, all too quickly)recently acquired shortcomings don't play well with our facing reality.
At first I thought why not get him to move to the ravine edge and shoot back toward the rock facing.. But you say he's grown roots where he is, plus a shot elk is still going to head for that ravine.
But then, you said he is like many of us old timers - don't destroy the meat. I think your answer is a larger objective, higher powered scope. If you have a rest for the forearm so he can't see his shakes with the higher power - don't ask how I know. Then encourage him to try neck (spine) shots just forward of the shoulders , broadside. I started that with whitetail years ago. Either they drop immediately, or you miss entirely -- no trailing into impossible spots to haul out and ruin otherwise happy times shared. He probably won't be around that many more years. Your patience now will bring you happiness with yourself later.Frankly, I think you are a pretty darn good guy to care so much about his feelings. Getting seen less often these days.
I'm sure you will handle it as well as can be done. Pat
 
jmr40 said:
What bullet?
Click to expand...

Here is what the OP stated in an earlier post.

Boogershooter said:
I appreciate the info gentlemen, I agree that elk are unpredictable. His favorite was the core lock but has used the winchester ballistic tips, nosler partition, and federal fusion. He has had several drop in their tracks and now just expects all of them too
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call any of them an extremely tough bullet, even the Nosler Partition expands very rapidly.
 
Pat, the neck shot is something I really havnt considered. I've done it on whitetail but never on a elk. At 100 yards I wouldn't hesitate but at 300 it might be beyond his ability. I will definitely bring this to his attention and see how he feels.
Jmr I do believe bullet choice is important. On whitetail there isn't imo a better bullet than the ballistic tip for lung shots. Not my first pick for elk but he has had 100% success with it. Didn't drop the elk like it does bambi tho. He's killed every elk he's hit, but they run a long ways down hill and then tumble even further. He doesn't like the partition at all and the fusions didn't tickle his fancy either. I picked up a box of the bonded corelocks today. Maybe that will be his best bet. I'm sure he will cuss and say something negative but I can't help that.
 
Brain, neck bone or backbone to anchor the animal. Even the larger calibers mentioned aren't gonna anchor thru the rib cage, he may die quicker but in most cases he'll run before he dies.
 
My suggestion: No harm in asking if you're favorite Father-in-Law could use a little company while in stand? Again_ no harm in suggesting the old feller go on hunting with his favorite rifle. (06)__
One of you younger folks sitting alongside the gentlemen armed and willing could make a huge difference in the old fellows excited tagging. Besides~~ between the two companions collaborating on a good camp story no doubt that alone would certainly be entertaining at the end of a Great Days!! hunting to others.
 
With all due respect to your Father in Law:
It IS good to have enough gun.A 30-06 is enough gun.
I know of a couple of teens who have one shot,one kill experience on 300 yd elk.With a 308 using 165 gr ballistic tips.
I know of one woman who uses a .243 and one who uses a 257 R on elk.They get their elk.
Getting a new,unfamiliar,bigger kicking rifle is seldom the answer.

I can suggest this.If he has the admirable goal of preserving the meat,switching from a 30-06 to a 7mm STW or a 300 Mag would typically result in a lot more velocity bloodshot and jellied meat.
If he goes up in rifle and uses the same shot placement,he MAY get a quicker kill.No guarantee,but he MIGHT.If he does,it will be because that cartridge/bullet combination made a greater cavity of destruction.Ruined more meat.
So by making a compromise on his shot placement,he can "anchor" his elk with a 30-06 without losing any more meat than the high-vel magnum.
Study the book "The Perfect Shot" would be one way to see where to hit.Its cheaper than a box of magnum ammo.

Generally,a new,unfamiliar,bigger,harder kicking gun is not a step in the right direction if the first gun is adequate.
 
Your FIL may want to preserve meat but he's not packing it out. If you guys didn't hunt with him what would he do?

I married into a hunting family and was with FIL when he decided it was time to be camp cook. He's been gone lot of years but at family gathering we still talk about his cooking.

Old saying "you pick your friends but inherit your relatives" You guys that hunt with him are also part of the problem for letting him get away with it. I'm 74 and my time is getting short on hunting elk.
 
Hibc you are correct. A larger caliber isn't always the right answer. Some people simply can't handle the recoil of muzzle blast of the magnums. His back may not allow him to shoot them either. But in my experience the larger force you hit a object with the larger the equal but opposite reaction is gona be. It's just a wing and a prayer at this point. Elk are big and absorb punishment like supeRyan. No guarantee on anything.
Roper glad to see you enjoying your golden years. I guess I've been griping and complaining a bit about this but if I told the fil I won't help him anymore I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. I talked to him yesterday about the whole situation while we went to look at some guns. He's starting to come to his senses. If I can get his wife and daughters to help me I think my prayers will be answered before we make our trip this year. I wish you many more years of great hunting. Maybe take a grandson with you so you can teach him and he help you.
 
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