Practical question about concealed carry

While it's true that criminals don't heed "no gun" signs, in most states, the minute any CWCer does, they too are criminals. So, yep, criminals don't heed "no gun" signs.

Again, if you are so afraid to not go anywhere without your gun, then don't go there. Again, pretty simple. Going around braggin' and talking macho about "I don't heed no stinkin' no gun signs" and suggesting others do it too, makes us all look like stupid, law breaking Bubbas. Then again, maybe that's what all that macho talk is for.........
 
Cosmodragoon said:
Theoretically, there is an important clash between the property rights of the given establishment and your right to keep and bear arms. I thought that conflict was squashed when it was decided that you couldn't bar people from your lunch counter on account of their skin color. Despite the fact that it's a constitutionally protected right in this case, we still haven't achieved basic equality for ourselves. The fact is that we are an oppressed minority and we are stuck with difficult situations and decisions like these. Our general respect for the law and our fellow citizens makes those decisions harder while making our oppression as a group more tragic. This is why I included a gentle call to action for my fellow gun owners.
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If the intent of the smiley at the end was to "un-dumb" this, you probably needed to string about a dozen or 5 to get that job done. We are NOT an oppressed minority or in need of protected status. If you want to change the law on no gun signs, contact your state rep and start working on it. Claiming butt-hurt ain't gonna get it done.

I don't agree with the Wyoming statute w/r/t no gun signs, but that's the law here. Your property rights trump my 2A rights, and ignoring the sign constitutes criminal trespass. It sucks, but that's just how it is. For now.
 
WyMark, it isn't about "protected status". It's about rights and oppression.

Is it not a fact that those of us who responsibly carry are a minority? Is it not a fact that there is widespread and institutionally promoted fear and misperception of us and our rights? Is it not a fact that we are subject to a wide variety of oppressive laws that seek to control where we can go, what we can do, and more? If those weren't facts, then you'd be right. Sadly, you are wrong. Gun owners are absolutely an oppressed minority and we absolutely need to be active in pursuing our civil rights.
 
Gun owners are absolutely an oppressed minority and we absolutely need to be active in pursuing our civil rights.
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Pursuing your civil rights does not mean breaking the law or stomping on other peoples civil rights. That's what criminals do. Promoting the negative image that even responsible gun owners believe they are above the law and can ignore the rights of others is not getting it done either. For the most part, we as gun owners are not as oppressed as you make out.
 
Aguila Blanca said:
That's certainly debatable. You don't consider the rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights to be civil rights?
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I thought the bill of rights governed how we protect our civil rights (life, liberty....).


its true Im just a layman at understanding these things, or maybe my google-fu is low on this one but every time Ive looked this up I find that RTKBA is only a political right.

I read that "safety" is a civil right and with a long historical understanding in most all countries that some form of self defense is an acceptable part of that in some form as a political right, but I cant find anywhere that guns (or any arms) are a part of any right to self defense.

I would live to be wrong on my research, please share any sources that say guns are a civil right.
 
Pursuing your civil rights does not mean breaking the law or stomping on other peoples civil rights. That's what criminals do. Promoting the negative image that even responsible gun owners believe they are above the law and can ignore the rights of others is not getting it done either. For the most part, we as gun owners are not as oppressed as you make out.
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Please understand that I am not saying that. Please see my original post on this topic where I acknowledge the clash between the right to carry and the property rights of businesses that are "open to the public". I think there is a legitimate issue there and I'd urge you to at least consider it. (Of course, I also mentioned the tragedy of us, as a group, generally respecting the law and caring greatly for the rights and even comfort of our fellow citizens.)

As per levels of oppression, it varies from state to state, or even locality to locality. However, we must remember that gun control laws are really regulations on people. They determine where we can go and what we can do. Behind them are crushing penalties that do, as a matter of fact, egregiously violate a host of other rights as punishment for something that is itself a right. That is oppression.

Now let's consider a practical example. Let's say that you live in one of the best places for a gun owner: Vermont. You are largely unmolested in your right to keep and bear arms. However, what happens if you want, need, or happen to take a step over the invisible lines to New York or Massachusetts? If caught, what will happen to you? What will happen to your other rights? How will your family suffer? If you didn't see the line, too bad. If you did see the line but had a compelling reason to cross, whether assuming a right to travel or even in case of some emergency that gave you cause to cross it, then it's not like you can responsibly leave your gun at the border. Heck, planned travel over the line necessitates disarming you for the entire route! This is oppression.
 
I admire the quote....
"I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6."
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It does make a meaningful point. Civil disobedience has a long history of changing oppressive laws and many believe laws that violate our natural rights are not morally binding. Of course, you have to be completely committed to the consequences of being "judged by 12".
 
Have you ever thought of calling ahead and ask about storage lockers? I have been to several Theme parks, zoos ect. and they had storage lockers and Six Flags in Atlanta had weapon storage lockers in their security office at the front gate. You won't know until you ask.
 
Originally posted by Boncrayon:

I admire the quote....
"I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6."
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.......or you could just turn around and walk away when you see the "no guns" sign and avoid both. That is the practical answer to the practical question asked by the OP.
 
Sometimes it takes someone to call attention to the absurdity of some sign to effect a change. For example, at my local car dealer, I was there for service. They had recently posted a No guns allowed sign , the one with the circle and crossed out over the gun.

I ask the manager, "Who is that sign directed toward and what is that to prevent? Will that prevent bad guys from bringing guns in here or good guys that would potentially protect others? He looked at me like a calf looking at a new gate. He said, if it makes you feel better, I have a gun in my office.

Now the rest of the story. The next time I came in, I saw same sign but it said, "No OPEN carry guns". This is not to spark a debate between ccw and open carry, but only to say...sometimes things change when you ask questions and get folks to think about the logic behind what they do. I forgot to add...this was in Sweet Home Alabama...your mileage may vary in your State.
 
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It does make a meaningful point. Civil disobedience has a long history of changing oppressive laws and many believe laws that violate our natural rights are not morally binding. Of course, you have to be completely committed to the consequences of being "judged by 12".
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I am one who has been judged by 12, and I can tell you it is hell on earth. Charge was aggravated assault, because gun was involved defending my home from prowler late at night. Long story short. I was acquitted after over year waiting for trial, spending thousands for attorney, receiving threats, taking kids out of school and finally moving to anther State. It's not an experience to be taken lightly.
 
I am one who has been judged by 12, and I can tell you it is hell on earth. Charge was aggravated assault, because gun was involved defending my home from prowler late at night. Long story short. I was acquitted after over year waiting for trial, spending thousands for attorney, receiving threats, taking kids out of school and finally moving to anther State. It's not an experience to be taken lightly.
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How much of this was specifically because you had used a firearm?
 
We all know that carry in a Post Office is prohibited. But just learned that the interpretation includes the PO PARKING LOT!!! So it is apparently illegal to have a firearm even in your car in the parking lot. What does one do if he has his pistol in the car and discovers after leaving home that he needs to go to the PO? The inversions in all of this is just crazy.
willr
 
We all know that carry in a Post Office is prohibited. But just learned that the interpretation includes the PO PARKING LOT!!! So it is apparently illegal to have a firearm even in your car in the parking lot. What does one do if he has his pistol in the car and discovers after leaving home that he needs to go to the PO? The inversions in all of this is just crazy.
willr
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That's the basic idea I'm wondering about. Even without CC, there's a range near one office where I work on some days (4 minutes away!)--I can bring the gun with me and keep it locked in the car, loaded or unloaded, so long as it is only in the parking lot. I can "shoot" (heh heh) over to the range on a lunch break. Trouble is, my other office is on a military base where I often get called for impromptu meetings. My understanding is that I cannot have even an empty, unloaded, or disassembled firearm in my car there. So if it's a day when I brought the gun with me in the trunk for some range practice, but I get called over to a meeting where I can't have it, I have to either pass on the meeting or swing by my home first to drop it off.

It's truly an odd things--seems those areas with the most "gun control" have the highest criminal gun violence, just like those areas with the strictest (or most expensive) "drug control" have the most heroin addicts.
 
Have you ever thought of calling ahead and ask about storage lockers? I have been to several Theme parks, zoos ect. and they had storage lockers and Six Flags in Atlanta had weapon storage lockers in their security office at the front gate. You won't know until you ask.
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Actually, no, that didn't occur to me :D

Suppose I could always ask. And probably will.
 
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