Practical question about concealed carry
- Thread starter OhioGuy
- Start date
Down here in sweltering FLA, if we are caught carrying where not permitted it is a 3rd degree felony, if convicted there go the guns, CCW, and all that you have acquired revolving around firearms. Choice is yours as to what you are willing to risk with regards to how your state laws are written
I'm sure having a CCW with me in a car for the few minutes it takes to drive through a higher-crime area and park, is better than being completely unprotected. But almost every place I would routinely go, especially with my family, prohibits firearms as a policy.
Then I thought "Oh, OK, sometimes I drive to Chicago and have to walk many blocks through downtown, in a city that's almost famous lately for violence.
Oh, no dice...seems Illinois won't honor Ohio CCW permits. Which makes me also ask, if you know you'll be traveling out of state to places that don't reciprocate your state's CCW license, is it possible in any way to get a CCW permit for that destination state? Or do you have to be a permanent resident?
Funny how the areas with the strictest anti-gun laws and policies seem to have the highest amount of gun violence. So, so shocking and unexpected
g.willikers
New member
Quite a few states don't require any kind of permit.
Just carry without worry.
Others provide out of state residents with carry permits.
Check with the online sites for info, like http://www.handgunlaw.us/
Illinois has some contradictory laws and Chicago is different all together.
Just carry without worry.
Others provide out of state residents with carry permits.
Check with the online sites for info, like http://www.handgunlaw.us/
Illinois has some contradictory laws and Chicago is different all together.
Yes, you can get an Illinois CCL.Two days of class and qualification to satisfy the requirements, and $300 will get it done. Of course, Chicago has more than a few limitations of its own...
We do the best we can with the law, and each of us has to decide what that means. Good luck.
We do the best we can with the law, and each of us has to decide what that means. Good luck.
g.willikers
New member
P.S.
Illinois law, especially Chicago, is in a state of flux lately.
With all the legal decisions and law suits there, even the experts seem confused about the situation.
Caution is recommended.
In addition to handgunlaw, also check with the Second Amendment Foundation, as they have been responsible for a lot of those legal and courtroom decisions in Illinois.
Illinois law, especially Chicago, is in a state of flux lately.
With all the legal decisions and law suits there, even the experts seem confused about the situation.
Caution is recommended.
In addition to handgunlaw, also check with the Second Amendment Foundation, as they have been responsible for a lot of those legal and courtroom decisions in Illinois.
jackstrawIII
New member
FWIW, I completely disregard "No Firearms" signs on stores, movie theaters, etc. As a previous poster said, if you're carrying properly concealed, nobody will know that you have a firearm and it won't be an issue... unless needed, in which case it won't be an issue.
Federal law prohibits carrying certain places (schools, post office, courts, etc) and those laws are not to be broken.
But some store owner putting a sign up in their window? Please. It's my constitutional right, validated by my state pistol permit.
For example, I'm going to the movies tonight with my wife. I guaranty there will be a "No Guns" sign on the front of the theater... I also guaranty that I will be carrying. Unless the movie theater is going to provide my family with adequate security, I will provide it myself.
Federal law prohibits carrying certain places (schools, post office, courts, etc) and those laws are not to be broken.
But some store owner putting a sign up in their window? Please. It's my constitutional right, validated by my state pistol permit.
For example, I'm going to the movies tonight with my wife. I guaranty there will be a "No Guns" sign on the front of the theater... I also guaranty that I will be carrying. Unless the movie theater is going to provide my family with adequate security, I will provide it myself.
BigMikey76
New member
Copied from handgunlaw.us:
R.C. 2923.126(C)(3) (a) Except as provided in division (C)(3)(b) of this section, the owner or person in control of private land or premises, and a private person or entity leasing land or premises owned by the state, the United States, or a political subdivision of the state or the United States, may post a sign in a conspicuous location on that land or on those premises prohibiting persons from carrying firearms or concealed firearms on or onto that land or those premises. Except as otherwise provided in this division, a person who knowingly violates a posted prohibition of that nature is guilty of criminal trespass in violation of division (A)(4) of section 2911.21 of the Revised Code and is guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If a person knowingly violates a posted prohibition of that nature and the posted land or premises primarily was a parking lot or other parking facility, the person is not guilty of criminal trespass under section 2911.21 of the Revised Code or under any other criminal law of this state or criminal law, ordinance, or resolution of a political subdivision of this state, and instead is subject only to a civil cause of action for trespass based on the violation.
In other words, Ohio puts the weight of law behind "no guns" signs posted by property owners. I recommend either obeying the signs or taking your business elsewhere whenever possible.
R.C. 2923.126(C)(3) (a) Except as provided in division (C)(3)(b) of this section, the owner or person in control of private land or premises, and a private person or entity leasing land or premises owned by the state, the United States, or a political subdivision of the state or the United States, may post a sign in a conspicuous location on that land or on those premises prohibiting persons from carrying firearms or concealed firearms on or onto that land or those premises. Except as otherwise provided in this division, a person who knowingly violates a posted prohibition of that nature is guilty of criminal trespass in violation of division (A)(4) of section 2911.21 of the Revised Code and is guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If a person knowingly violates a posted prohibition of that nature and the posted land or premises primarily was a parking lot or other parking facility, the person is not guilty of criminal trespass under section 2911.21 of the Revised Code or under any other criminal law of this state or criminal law, ordinance, or resolution of a political subdivision of this state, and instead is subject only to a civil cause of action for trespass based on the violation.
In other words, Ohio puts the weight of law behind "no guns" signs posted by property owners. I recommend either obeying the signs or taking your business elsewhere whenever possible.
Cheapshooter
New member
Nothing NEAR the consequences if you don't!
In my state the owner of the property can ask you to leave, call the police if you don't. The police officer can then instruct you to leave, or issue what is basically the same thing as a traffic ticket that carries a $100 fine. No consequences as far as your CCW permit unless you have two violations. Then it becomes a one year suspension.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
According to your profile, you are in NY state. Looking at www.handgunlaw.us for New York, I found the following:jackstrawIII said:
Unless you have more specific information than what Gary Slider at Handgun Law could determine, you may be risking arrest if you ignore "No gun" signs, and you probably should not be advising other people to do so (at least, not without a disclaimer that the signs may or may not have the force of law).
TheGunGeek
New member
This is my advice based on the learning process I went through.
Go ahead and take your CCW course which will provide a basic foundation. Do some research on the instructor and be careful to choose one with good qualifications. Simply being NRA certified doesn't mean it's a good instructor. This is an easy accreditation to obtain. My CCW class was 4.5 hours of classroom and then the range qualification. The instructor was clear that this was just the beginning of the learning process. Most are much shorter (and cheaper). In the seminar below, there were a couple people who claimed their instructor from "X" range gave them advice which I knew was clearly illegal, from my own CCW class. The attorney had to correct this misinformation, which had a mandatory prison sentence if employed. Go for quality.
About a month after the CCW class, I also attended a 3.5 hour gun law seminar with U.S. Law Shield. They will promote their product, however I had already signed up prior to attending. If it's available in your area, I would highly recommend attending this also. There was an attorney covering the criminal and civil issues in my State, as well as a police officer to provide their input. One of the issues that was covered in depth was the issue you raised. I plan on going annually to stay current.
Read the State Statute thoroughly a couple a times to insure it's ingrained. Ignorance of the law isn't a defense.
Firearms isn't the only defense option. I always carry defense spray, and Taser makes some very compact units. The more choices at your disposal the better. I've never seen a sign on private property prohibiting these other options.
Learn and practice good situational awareness. When you're ready, taking a class on disarming techniques is really fun also.
Go ahead and take your CCW course which will provide a basic foundation. Do some research on the instructor and be careful to choose one with good qualifications. Simply being NRA certified doesn't mean it's a good instructor. This is an easy accreditation to obtain. My CCW class was 4.5 hours of classroom and then the range qualification. The instructor was clear that this was just the beginning of the learning process. Most are much shorter (and cheaper). In the seminar below, there were a couple people who claimed their instructor from "X" range gave them advice which I knew was clearly illegal, from my own CCW class. The attorney had to correct this misinformation, which had a mandatory prison sentence if employed. Go for quality.
About a month after the CCW class, I also attended a 3.5 hour gun law seminar with U.S. Law Shield. They will promote their product, however I had already signed up prior to attending. If it's available in your area, I would highly recommend attending this also. There was an attorney covering the criminal and civil issues in my State, as well as a police officer to provide their input. One of the issues that was covered in depth was the issue you raised. I plan on going annually to stay current.
Read the State Statute thoroughly a couple a times to insure it's ingrained. Ignorance of the law isn't a defense.
Firearms isn't the only defense option. I always carry defense spray, and Taser makes some very compact units. The more choices at your disposal the better. I've never seen a sign on private property prohibiting these other options.
Learn and practice good situational awareness. When you're ready, taking a class on disarming techniques is really fun also.
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sig-gunner
Inactive
Very nostalgic to see that. My dad was born and raised in Sciotoville, Ohio (a poo-hole now, but peaceful when he grew up in the early 1900s). He had an accent and when asked about it always said "grew up close enough to Kentucky to sound like them and to be like them."
He's the one who taught me about carrying a gun and about many other useful things to say the least.
Since you're in Missouri and talking about Missouri law, I will chime in, as I have considerable experience with that. Once you are asked to leave, and you refuse, that becomes a 1st Degree Trespass, which is a B Misdemeanor, and carries up to a $500 fine and/or 6 months in jail. Your talking about the administrative actions that can be taken against your CCW. There's more to it.
The $100 "fine" for the CCW violation is a separate, administrative action imposed through the small claims/associate court that's a civil action, and costs you more each time, and eventually leads to suspension/revocation. You can read up on it Chapter 571.107 of the RSMo.
Then you can read Chapter 569.140 of the RSMo. about Trespass. Once you are told to leave by someone in control of the property and you do not, you are "unlawfully remaining", therefore; making your action a crime.
Don't be lured into the "it not criminal" trap by taking to heart the "it's not criminal" language in Chapter 571. That may not be the only Chapter that applies...............................
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Cosmodragoon
New member
Just a thought but most people wear seat belts, even if they've never been in an accident and live in a place with quiet roads. A lot of people have fire extinguishers in their homes, even if that home has never been on fire. Carry a gun for the same reason.
As per signs, think it through. You know those signs won't stop bad people or the bad ideas they might have. In fact, they might just act as an invitation! Ever wonder why so many of these horrific massacres occur in "gun free zones"? Bad guys know that good guys tend to obey the rules. In the case of actual laws, however unconstitutional or contrary to your natural rights or actual safety, you could find yourself in very hot water if anyone ever noticed or if you ever had to use that gun to save your life. (That's why it is absolutely crucial that we all be active in opposing such laws.) In the case of a sticky on the front window of your local pizza place, I wouldn't give it a second thought.
As per signs, think it through. You know those signs won't stop bad people or the bad ideas they might have. In fact, they might just act as an invitation! Ever wonder why so many of these horrific massacres occur in "gun free zones"? Bad guys know that good guys tend to obey the rules. In the case of actual laws, however unconstitutional or contrary to your natural rights or actual safety, you could find yourself in very hot water if anyone ever noticed or if you ever had to use that gun to save your life. (That's why it is absolutely crucial that we all be active in opposing such laws.) In the case of a sticky on the front window of your local pizza place, I wouldn't give it a second thought.
Cosmodragoon
New member
BTW, some secure establishments have procedures for checking in weapons while on site. I don't know if it applies where you are but it might be worth checking into.
and this is what they mean when they say we need more "common sense" gun control.
The OP and all the good replies here in this thread highlight all the reasons I've become more politically active in fighting gun control and supporting gun rights. I have it pretty easy here in Oregon (signs do not carry the law) and can pretty much carry virtually anywhere.... but each year we have to fight against more gun control laws in each legislative session and little by little they are getting things thru.
On the topic, the few places we have the same dilemma the OP has is concert, sporting or entertainment venues that wand or pat down for weapons. Sometimes they do sometimes they don’t.... There is no way to know in advance if the event checks for weapons so the few times I find myself attending these events I just leave the gun at home or locked in the safe in the car... but yeah, your disarmed for the walk in the part of town your most likely to be assaulted.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Remember you're conversing here with people from all fifty states, and beyond. Maybe ignoring that sticky on the front window of the pizza palace isn't a criminal offense in your state, but are you advising people in states where the signs do have force of law to ignore them?Cosmodragon said:
Cosmodragoon
New member
No. As I said, "I wouldn't give it a second thought". I'm talking about my decision in the context I provided.
This issue comes up a lot and frankly, it's a thorny one. In many places, those signs can safely be viewed as a suggestion. In some places, there are specific statutes that create various penalties for disobeying these signs. (Such penalties may work in concert with licensing and registration, which is another reason to oppose such things!) In other places, it is either implicitly or explicitly trespassing to disobey them. Sadly, it is all of our responsibilities to know, understand, and be on the right side of these complex issues for each and every state or town we happen to step across.
Theoretically, there is an important clash between the property rights of the given establishment and your right to keep and bear arms. I thought that conflict was squashed when it was decided that you couldn't bar people from your lunch counter on account of their skin color. Despite the fact that it's a constitutionally protected right in this case, we still haven't achieved basic equality for ourselves. The fact is that we are an oppressed minority and we are stuck with difficult situations and decisions like these. Our general respect for the law and our fellow citizens makes those decisions harder while making our oppression as a group more tragic. This is why I included a gentle call to action for my fellow gun owners.
In Tn the signs carry force of law if they meet a specific design. Risk vs reward. Is the risk greater that you will be in a potential grievous bodily harm situation or face significant legal fees, jail time, and loss of right to own or carry firearm? Also consider- if situation occurs in posted business, you may still face legal issues if you present your firearm.