Poll: Opinions on open carry

[joab]

I couldn't vote either.
I think open carry should be an option, but it is not something that I would necessarily encourage

Freedom of speech is also a right that we enjoy but I wouldn't encourage someone to walk around town verbally comparing his gun to his penis

People may not have the right not to be offended but there is such a thing as polite behavior in mixed company.

Or is that just something else we used to believe in

 

[stephen426]

I'm willing to make a bet. If you guys owned a business, lets say a restaurant for example and your state allowed open carry, you would probably allow it right? Now lets say that the majority of your patrons are sheeple and they have their reasons (as silly as they may be) for being scared of guns that aren't attached to badges. If enough of your customers express concern to you and then stop patroning your restaurant, would you do something about it??? When it hits your wallet, I'm willing to bet most of you would ask people not to open carry. You might encourage then to carry concealed but few of you would be willing to lose the Sheeple as customers.

What the hell is the big deal with covering up your gun? I know it is a little more uncomfortable and may restrict your options of what you carry, but there really is a tactical advantage here. I also noiced with almost 30 votes, I am still the only one who has voted against open carry. I guess that is to be expected on this type of forum... Too many fanatics and not enough moderates to balance things off.

 

[stephen426]

+1 for joab!

The first ammendment gives us a right to free speech. Does that give you the right to verbally abuse people and wear whatever the heck you darn well please? There are decency laws established so other won't have to be subjected to your "freedoms". How about burning the American flag. Isn't tha just another form of expression. How about people who make threats against the president or say the b word on a plane? (I don't want to trigger any FBI investigations by spelling out that word in the same sentence as Mr. B). There is such thing as common courtesy whether the laws say it is legal or not.

 

[progunner1957]

They may be facts in your reality.......

Sorry, but "my" reality is the same reality as those who wrote the Bill of Rights. I have based my worldview on their underlying philosophy - not the other way around.

All I did in my original post was make statements of fact in a logical manner.
It is obvious that you do not like either 1.) me, 2.) the facts of the matter, or 3.) logic.

If you do not like me, I couldn't care less.

If you do not like logic, it can only be due to the fact that your worldview is based on emotion rather than logic and is therefore devoid of reason.

If you do not like the facts of the Bill of Rights, it can only be due to the fact that you have bought into the emotional thinking and invalid, flawed logic of The Sheeple who are smitten with terror by the mere sight of a firearm.

Or maybe you don't like all three; if that is the case, why are you here?? How about you go away and troll somewhere else? This forum was designed with those in mind who actually like firearms, enjoy the shooting sports and are committed to our Second Amendment Rights.

 

[stephen426]

Or maybe you don't like all three; if that is the case, why are you here?? How about you go away and troll somewhere else? This forum was designed with those in mind who actually like firearms, enjoy the shooting sports and are committed to our Second Amendment Rights.

First of all, please put an = sign plus the name of the person you are quoting... that way we don't have to reread all of the posts to figure out who you are yelling at.

Secondly, Sendec has every right to be on this forum as you or I. I thought that this was a friendly place to exchange ideas and opinions. If you have all of the answers, why don't you teach a class or try to publish articles? I wouldn't quit your day job if I were you.

Sorry, but "my" reality is the same reality as those who wrote the Bill of Rights. I have based my worldview on their underlying philosophy - not the other way around.

Are you really that old or can we have a ride in your time machine? How the HELL can you say with such CERTAINTY that you know what our founding fathers were thinking??? I'd be willing to bet that many of our founding fathers would be quite shocked at how things have turned out.

You have a right to your opinions, we have a right to ours. If you don't want to hear the opinions of others, maybe YOU should try talking to yourself instead of these forums. :barf:

 

[Duxman]

Rights are eroded little by little. First they take away your right to open carry, guess what next thing you know, no CC, then no guns.

This is probably one of the major reasons why a lot of us celebrate our freedoms as Americans by carrying open. I've done it, in a public restaurant - search for the thread here on TFL. No sheepies went nuts and called the cops - that is an urban legend that your friendly neighborhood leftist media wants you to believe.

I would like some statistics from those folks who believe that criminals attack gun owners to go on with their crime (ie bank robbers who shoot open carry folks, muggers etc.) The basic fact is that every state that allows open carry has a lot lower crime rate than the neighboring state that does not! Check out our neighbor - The Republik of Maryland vs the Crime stats here in Virginia. I am not even going to mention DC in this argument.

Stephen - its your right to express your opinion, but check out some alternative facts and do some reading, I hope you will change your mind, you seem to be an intelligent person - with good arguments, just do some reading and let us know how you feel after that.

 

[stephen426]

Thank you for your civilized reply Duxman. Please point me in the right direction for the reading material.

I am basing my statement that open carry is a tactical disadvantage on several things. First would be what I feel is common sense. If you are wearing your gun openly when something bad goes down, you had better have an opportunity to grab it before you get shot or have your weapon removed. If someone already has the jump on you (their weapon is already pointed at you) you really have no chance to use your gun. If you get hustled into an area with other "innocents", you might have a chance to draw and regain control of the situation.

Secondly, I had a conversation with a mall rent a cop. Although he is far from an authority on the matter, his comments made sense (to me). I asked him why he wears a bullet proof vest (no guns allowed) even when it is sweltering (this was summer time in Atlanta, GA). He told me that if something were to go down, he would most likely get shot first since their uniforms look like police uniforms.

I know this is based on my opinions and I appreciate those who at least consider it. That is why internet forums are so great. If we all agreed with everything everyone else said, it would get pretty boring very quickly.

One last thing is no one honestly responded to my post about whether or not you would discourage open carry if it affected your business.

 

[joab]

One last thing is no one honestly responded to my post about whether or not you would discourage open carry if it affected your business.

I don't know if my opinion applies here but,
If I had a business where customers came to my establishment I would not discourage, as in ask to leave, anybody open carrying anymore than I would ask freakishly dressed people to leave.

This may be a weird comparison, but many years ago I watched The Story of Sonny and Cher on TV.
Throughout the movie they consistently went to a certain restaurant and were on a first name basis with the owners and employees.
When they adopted the character Anthony and Cleopatra as
their gimmick and started dressing weird some customers complained.
Even though nothing had changed in them except their manner of dress the were asked to leave and not come back.
I thought that kinda sucked and feel the same way about any activity that does not directly harass other customers

If I had to alienate a customer it might as well be the one I have the least in common with.


When I had my own business it involved going into people's homes.
In that case I would not allow open carry because I was in their homes and had to take their perceptions, misconceptions and even prejudices into consideration.

 

[swmike]

If I had a restaurant, I would encourage open carry. I would hope to attract customers that had a common interest. I might even put in a range in back Have some open competetions like the taverns do with pool, darts, shuffleboard, etc. Bet my restaurant would not get held up very often


Seriously, I support open carry. However I do not support it in exchange for concealed carry. It should be an option with both being legal.

 

[JohnKSa]

Not much in the way of poll options...

A yes or no would have been sufficient as answers for the poll. The way you worded the answers will probably make most people simply dismiss it without answering. Unless of course they share your (somewhat telegraphed) opinion.

 

[Trapp]

Well John K.....

It was kinda a reactionary thread started from the one that got locked (the most recent locked one in this forum). I do realize there are always gray areas, and exceptions. I was just looking for an overall opinion and wanted to see some reactions to different ideas from the same general community over such a controversial subject.....

Does that make me a Troll?

What do you mean by telegraphed opinion anyway?

 

[KLR]

There isn't a vote for:
"Okay by me but tactically questionable."

In short:
Makes you a target if there is a holdup, etc.

Makes your weapon a target for a bad guy to take and use against you.
Uniformed officers carry openly but have the advantages of triple retention holsters and weapon retention training. A lot, if not most weapon carriers eschew the thumb break.

Works fine in a field/hunting/hiking scenario.

 

[progunner1957]

Are you really that old or can we have a ride in your time machine? How the HELL can you say with such CERTAINTY that you know what our founding fathers were thinking???

Stephen -
Because I read their writings. Ever hear of The Federalist Papers??

If they wrote it and said it, I would dare to say that they meant it.

Have a nice day.

If I had a restaurant, I would encourage open carry. I would hope to attract customers that had a common interest. I might even put in a range in back Have some open competetions like the taverns do with pool, darts, shuffleboard, etc. Bet my restaurant would not get held up very often

Amen to that, SWMIKE!!

 

[Duxman]

NP Stephen -

Here are some websites that can give you some different insight:

http://www.a-human-right.com/
http://www.pulpless.com/gunclock/
http://www.opencarry.org/

Read on the NRA, VCDL and other organizations and what they say about open carry and how long it took to win this fight (and what it took - to make this happen...)

Before we go into the unlikely scenario (lets be realistic here - any one of us here are probably more likely to win the lottery before getting into a tactical situation - if we maintain reasonable situational awareness, and prudence on where and what places we vist.) - lets talk about crime prevention.

The majority of criminals are not very smart. (No offense to the criminals in this board...if there are any ) - most of them have the bully philosophy, they want a helpless victim - attack the weak and make them give up their money / etc.

The very prescence of an armed person whether it be a civilian open carrying, a rent-a-cop, or a law enforcement officer prevents crime. Criminals will go somewhere else and / or rob someplace easier. The last thing they want is a confrontation with an armed opponent. So by open carrying - you have actually prevented a crime. No need for a tactical situation.

With regards to a business - I do not give my money to any business that will not allow me to walk in armed. I have actually run a set of restaurants here in Virginia back in the early 90's, and my philosophy has not changed - if a lawfully armed civilian where to walk in, he is just as welcomed as an unarmed patron.

Most people who see an armed person in civilian dress automatically assume undercover COP. Makes them feel safer in the "sheepie" sort of way. And when the local virginia law is explained to those who are concerend they are normally pretty logical about it. And if not, you really dont want their money anyway, they are going to cause problems whether its a complaint about the cleanliness of your bathroom or you allow "lawfully armed" civilians in your restaurant.

Think of it as the fox and the sour grapes. There are some customers who always complain.

 

[Wildalaska]

Because I read their writings. Ever hear of The Federalist Papers??

Ive read the Federalist papers too...Ive also briefed the issue of the 2nd amendment to an appeals court. I dont necessarily agree with you.

But regardless, I throw these random thoughts out at you all..

No rights are absolute, to the extent that they may be reaosnably tempered to fit the needs of scociety by society itself (whhich issue of reasonableness forms probably 90% of constiutional litigation) or...MORE IMPORTANTLY, individually tempered to meet the needs of courstey and decency to your fellow man or the polity as a whole not legally, but in terms of "being a good neighbor"

Any right can be excersized to the point of offensiveness...thats one of my biggest complaints about society today...that many folks are so self centered in their desire to excersize "rights' that they lose sight of the we all have to live together. Most of us want to go on with their day to day lives without bother, dishormony, concern, annoyance and strife. I have the right, under the 1st amendment to wear a T Shirt that says "Eat **** and Die, ***Wipe Yuppie" but I sure as hell wouldnt wear one and would hate to have my zen disturbed by watchiong some numbskull parade around in his...I have the same right to dip a crucifix and a flag in a bowl of poop and call it art, but I consider myself (beleive it or not) a bit too COURTEOUS to my fellow Americans to do that. If I was gay I sure as heck wouldnt be standing on the steps of St Patty's Catehdral swappin spit with a transgendered midget....I dont want to see folks carrying a picture of a bloody fetus while chanting "I had an Abortion Today", I dont want to see gay Porno in Walmart and I dont want to walk in to Nordstroms and see a guy at the perfum counter carrying a 45 in a tac rig on his hip and a subgun over his shoulder simply becasue he has a desire to scream "LOOK AT ME SHEEPLE IM EXCERSIZING MY RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS"....

There is something called....class and manners......

My daddy taught me there is a time and place for everything. You have need for a gun as a tool need to open carry out in the woods or behind the counter of your drugstore or while making a deposit in a bank or under such circustances as may be REASONABLE under the circumstances with DUE CONSIDERATION TO YOUR NEIGHBORS go for it...but to carry a gun openly in the tiny town of Mayberry where there hasnt been an armed crime in 27 years (O I know, it COULD/MAYBE/MIGHT HAPPEN, so might a meteor fall your head, break out the tinfoil!) just to show Mike and Emma Sheepowitz that by golly, you arent an EFFETE POLITICALLY CORRECT MAN, YOU EXCERSIZE YOUR RIGHTS, its no different than me sitting next to you at the Happy Hamberger Joint wearing a Tshirt that says "i Love Al Qaeda, all Americans are the Spawn of Syphilltic Donkey Drivers"....help your digestion????

So strap on the hawgleg Pilgrims, lets go out and show em!

WildkarmaAlaska

 

[Trapp]

Wild

That's exactly why I would encourage open carry. If everyone saw it everyday, it wouldn't be an issue. It would become a "society norm" to see it, therefore becoming acceptable. At least in theory. I believe exposure (the good kind) is the key to "winning" this "war" we have against the "anti's".....

 

[Wildalaska]

If everyone saw it everyday, it wouldn't be an issue. It would become a "society norm" to see it, therefore becoming acceptable. At least in theory.

Well lets leave it at that...I'll go toss my fetus shirt on and hang out in your neighborhood If you see it everyday, it will be acceptable

Guess, we have different views of what should be a norm in 2005

WildagreetodisagreeAlaska

 

[stevelyn]

Yes, open carry should be encouraged, but it needs to be tempered with a little common sense and descretion on the carrier's part. Just because you can, dosen't mean that you always should.

As an Alaskan, open or concealed carry isn't an issue as both are legal requiring no permitting to do so. However, I won't carry open in an urban setting because I don't want the attention brought to myself. Also being a LEO I don't think it makes good tactical sense for me personally.

When I'm road trippin' I'll carry open because most folks along the road system couldn't care less and it's common to see others open carrying.

 

[KLR]

Well put Wildalaska. Just because we can do something, doesn't necessarily make it a good idea.

 

[SomeKid]

I love OC.

I do it almost daily.

Do I conceal? Sometimes. I will conceal it going into church. Why? Because I want the little kids focusing on the message, not on the metal and plastic on my hip.

I carry open in an urban envrionment. I am young, (21), though I try to dress like an upstanding citizen and not a punk. I am however routinely underaged. It has made for some interesting moments.

HOWEVER! Not once have I ever had someone call the police. Not once have the police ever seen it and done anything more than nod their heads and continue on.

I have carried open into banks, into my vets office, into my job on payday to get paid (Ok, full disclosure, the business if owned by a woman who sleeps armed. She is an awesome gal.), into the downtown areas during the middle of the business day when lots of people were around, gas stations, fast food, family functions. You get the picture.

For starters, most people do not notice. The few that do, either do not care, or talk to me for a minute, and learn something. I keep a friendly demeanor, and try to leave a good impression on people.

THIS is the way to get people to equate OC with good guys. THIS is the way to get people used to it. THIS is the way to get soccer moms to realize we will protect their kids if something bad happens, and that we are their friends.

Now, do I worry about some BG snagging my weapon or just shooting me first because I OC? I do not. Why? Two reasons. For starters, BGs are not my intellectual peers. (They ain't too bright.) Secondly, as someone who loves to read news, read, hear stories, etc etc etc, I have yet to hear of the BGs doing this once. I have heard of cops getting THEIR guns taken, but I do not hear it happening to armed citizens. The reason for police to be at more risk than us is obvious: they spend their entire workdays either dealing with criminals, or looking for them. We do not. Simply by playing the odds, they get put into more bad spots than we do, thus they have higher odds of having their weapon taken from them.

Also, OC is comfortable, and provides easier access than most concealed methods of carry.

Somekid, forever OCing. (I love TN!)