Police shooting in Wisconsin 4/22/2011

[markj]

who, if anybody was in the building behind the truck. the cops shot towards a possibly occupied building at a man that was NOT shooting at them anymore.

Well just goes to show, best not to ever shoot at any police officer, they will shoot back till the threat is down and not moving. Would HPs travel thru the walls of them buildings? I dont know what caliber either.

Cops did you, me, and every American a favor by doing thier job there.

 

[justjim75]

i think you got me all wrong from the beginning. i have alot of respect for LEO's and what they are faced with is terrible. i am both sorry for you and your collegues getting shot and/or killed, and thankful for your contributions to keeping us safe. i read on this site and others constantly about being very, very careful where your bullets go if and when you decide to shoot and in this particular case it seemed like there was a very high risk of "collateral damage" due to many rounds being fired after the threat level went down to a degree. once again, thank you and sorry if you misunderstood me (i certainly think that guy needed to be stopped ASAP)

 

[chadstrickland]

Mark j...I agree with the last part of your post...you hit the nail on the head...but..I have also made my comments earlier and I still stick with them...imho..each bullet that didn't stop in that truck or bad guy had a lawer attached to it...I would be willing to be that all those cops had locked slides when they stopped shooting....I don't think it takes 50 bullets to stop a truck and kill a guy....that's my main point...I thank the good lord for cops..they do a dangerous job and im thankful they are there...( I have also never got a ticket )..any of you guys that are cops..im not trash talkin you at all..and I thank you for your service

 

[MLeake]

Of the two issues put forward (collateral damage risk; shooting at the back of a felon who is no longer shooting) only one would apply in my neck of the woods, and that would be the collateral damage.

As far as shooting in the back, or shooting at a fleeing felon, or for that matter continuing pursuit of a fleeing felon:

The guy was wanted for drive-by shootings, and had just fired on police. By law and by local department policies, those factors made the felon a lawful target until he surrendered. He didn't have to approach, he didn't have to continue to fire, all he had to do was fail to comply, and shooting him was lawful and in accordance with the policies I've read posted in local media.

Collateral damage could have been a legitimate reason to consider ceasing fire. I'd have preferred to see fewer rounds fired in a residential neighborhood.

But that has nothing to do with whether the guy was no longer shooting at, nor facing, the officers.

He only sowed what he very actively had reaped.

 

[Big Shrek]

JustJim, let me give you some info that you are missing.

Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985). The justices held that deadly force "may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."

Kinda sums it all up in a nutshell...if you are ONLY running away, that's not a shootable offense,
UNLESS, you have previously been violent...and especially if you had just been shooting at someone/cops.
So if you just beat your wife with a baseball bat, and are running from the cops with the bat in hand, they can blast you.
If you just pee'd on a cop car, and are running away, they can't shoot you (legally).

Violent Felony or multiple violent felonies = getting shot if you run.

Non-violent Felonies & misdemeanors = no bang-bang unless they spot a weapon on you.
(In which case they tend to run you over with a police car (see the Pensacola PD "Ard" case.)

It's that simple.

 

[JohnKSa]

none of you know who, if anybody was in the building behind the truck.

We also don't know who was behind the cops when Mr. Nice Guy opened up on them without warning.

But we (and the cops) know what he would have done had he gotten away in his stolen truck. He would have continued doing driveby shootings--taking pot shots at people & buildings as he drove down the road.

It's too bad they didn't drop him with a single round, but it is (and was) painfully obvious that the cops were justified, in fact morally and legally obligated in doing whatever was necessary to stop him from leaving the scene.

 

[TenRing]

The perp in this case must have been deranged or insane. I don't know how he expected to get away after jumping out of the truck and firing rounds at the officers. It seemed like just another drive by shooting to him. Did he really think he would be allowed to just jump back into the truck and continue on his way? Maybe he thought he would race through residential streets and lose the officers. Seems like the perp was acting out scenes from a movie that he saw.

 

[markj]

each bullet that didn't stop in that truck or bad guy had a lawer attached to it...

Cops get into shootouts all the time, how often do innocents get hurt? Hardly ever, but it does happen. Now do them cops think about this when under fire? Heck no they are concentrating on stopping a known bad guy was drive by shooting at folks and shot at 4 officers, no all they were thinking of was stopping that threat before he hurts others.

How many people could he potentially kill or injure if he was left to get away?

I got family in LEO and I feer for them daily. It isnt a good job IMHO. Gotta go babysit adults, arrest them or hand out a ticket with a fine to upset individuals may be have a gun on them, or a gang wannabe wants to make a name for himself.

Nope, shoot at a cop, you gonna get shot up. And rightly so.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I don't know how he expected to get away after jumping out of the truck and firing rounds at the officers.

Who said he did?

Did he really think he would be allowed to just jump back into the truck and continue on his way?

Sadly, it happens more often than folks would like to believe. It isn't that the suspects are "allowed" to get back in their vehicles and leave, but that they manage to do so successfully for various reasons.

Cops get into shootouts all the time, how often do innocents get hurt? Hardly ever, but it does happen. Now do them cops think about this when under fire? Heck no they are concentrating on stopping a known bad guy was drive by shooting at folks and shot at 4 officers, no all they were thinking of was stopping that threat before he hurts others.

Yep. We still want them to shoot better. Personally, I don't care how many times they fire so long as their shots go where they are supposed to go.

 

[9mm]

Question

I have a question!

With all the shots fired while he was standing outside the car before he got back in. Why didn't he get hit?? or go down? The cops seamed to missed him before he got back into his car.

 

[JohnKSa]

Handgun bullets aren't lightning bolts. I suspect he was hit at least once and maybe multiple times before he got back into his truck. At one point he stumbles slightly while trying to get back to and into the truck which might be evidence that he sustained an injury about that point in time.

The average service pistol caliber bullet destroys approximately 0.1% of the average adult male's body. Or, looking at it from the other side, the impact of the average service pistol caliber bullet leaves the average adult male 99.9% intact.

If the 0.1% damaged isn't anything particularly important or significant it's not going to have a particularly significant effect.

 

[9mm]

I argee I think he was acting some role play crap out. Just look how he hopped outta the car then ran back (silly) like.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I argee I think he was acting some role play crap out. Just look how he hopped outta the car then ran back (silly) like.

Have you seen many of these sorts of events? Bad guys and good guys alike often look very silly under stress.

Of course he had to run back to his truck if he wanted to get back in it. He didn't get it into park and so it left him behind.

 

[Tyrant]

I do not think the police fired excessive rounds. The BG is pulled over and immediately discharges every round he has. The building behind the truck was most likely the same as what was behind the police.
Wait for back up - No longer an option. They had to remove the threat and end it before he could reload or utilize his other weapon (The vehicle).
There are so many things that can go wrong with the situation and few options.