Police shooting in Wisconsin 4/22/2011

Frosty, here’s your quote, “Unless and until you have been involved in an armed encounter you should refrain from negative comments concerning the conduct of Police Officers in a shooting.”

Although I understand your position, using this logic, one cannot have an opinion on abortion unless they have been aborted.

And no one should have an opinion on the military unless they served in the military (22-year veteran tying this).

Etc… Sorry, but police, like the military, are public employees and ‘We the People’ have the right to speak their mind about those issues and more. The First Amendment reminds us that we have the God-given right to speak… but no one must listen and, unfortunately, none of us need be correct in our speech. I believe that the 2nd guessers are wrong, but they have the right to be wrong.
 
^^^555 Coasty

Dead on the money. The Police work for the people... and the people have every right to comment, and even hold police resposible for their actions.

Sorry LawScholar... I must have misread your post.

As far as the notion "if you have never been in a shoot out you dont know what you will do or how you will feel" I cant agree. Those who take the time to train, and practice will develop technique, and muscle memory that will stand them in good stead in an actual armed confrontation.

Again sorry for the misunderstanding LawScholar.

Glenn D.
 
I don't suppose this is entirely off topic..or it may not be at all so here it goes..I agree with the above post to a degree...and that is that training and muscle memory will take over as im sure it probably would..but to achieve that you would have to have been trained in the same amount of stress and that fight for your life flicker of panic mixed with adrenaline typ rush you have...which I have felt before..and that is hard to get when you ain't fighting for your life...so how can you train for somthing like that situation..I mean I know some stress can be put on you but not that much....im not trying to burn anyone or anything..im just curious
 
Chad.... IMO, and experience... Training and Muscle memory will take over and trump stress, and panic. It works... It really does. I wholeheartedly believe people should train as they would fight. An GOD forbid they find themselves in a deadly pickle.... they will IMO fight like they trained.
But thats just my opinion.
 
Glen Dee, it sure seems to work that way with flying. Difference between the pro and the hobbyist is best seen when the weather goes to dog crap, an engine fails, or something starts spewing smoke in the cabin.
 
"Training and Muscle memory will take over and trump stress, and panic."

+1; you are most likely to experience panic and stress after the incident passes if you train body and mind properly.
 
:)

I value your experience and opinions and after giving it some thought I am inclined to agree with you and maybe relate to y'all in a manner...where I work at I service cars..once learned nothing major ever changes you just do the same thing over and over and every now and then ill be lost in thought workin on a car and next thing I know im finished with it..with no memory of doing everything..maybe bits and pieces..I suppose that's subconscious muscle memory or somthing idk..but I suppose if I traied that much then something similar would happen
 
but I suppose if I trained that much then something similar would happen
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It would indeed. The key is to train WELL using proper techniques and building good muscle memory so that when the automatic takes over GOOD things happen. Training poorly or not training means that when the automatic takes over what happens is often not very productive at all.
 
Glad to see the officers were alright. He must have thought "Okay, I get out, shoot a few times, scare them, jump back in my car, and get away." Should have kept him around to train the SEAL combat driving school.
 
My eyes have opened just a little bit more...before now I havnt been able to fully comprehended the lessons I have been taught but now after going over this I think I will add some new material to my training...( which is self taught with the help of books and a few seal dvds )....when its all you got..its all you got :)
 
there's no way i would have shot that many rounds at someone running away with a house behind them. ricochets, misses, the legality of shooting a man in the back. i think with two cars and the man being stuck they might could've stopped him without risking that hypothetical 5 yr olds life. glad about the actual results but if a non LE civillian had done it they'd be in prison.
 
Still sure

But I'm not sure where you got the "hypothetical 5 year old" or the idea that it's illegal to shoot the criminal in "the back". Your hypothetical bystander is overruled by the factual suspect who is using deadly force against the Officers. If I am in a gunfight for my life I will/would shoot the bad guy in the toe...in the ear...in the back...in the front. Wherever it takes shooting him to stop the threat to the Officers and the public. This isn't the movies where all shooters stop while everyone reloads and then asks if it's OK with all parties if we resume fire. The bad guy suspended the "rules of fair play" when he opened fire on the Officers. I am not trying to offend you but I iterate my earlier statement that unqualified persons really should not criticize Officers who do the dirty work.
 
Right, there are no laws in the US that stipulate where a person can or cannot be shot during the use of lethal force where lethal force is justified. You can shoot them in the back. You can shoot them while they run.
 
"Right, there are no laws in the US that stipulate where a person can or cannot be shot during the use of lethal force where lethal force is justified. You can shoot them in the back. You can shoot them while they run."

Exactly right; when deadly force is called for, you shoot for center of mass of whatever target you have available, be it a head, arm, leg, etc. This is not the same thing as the ridiculous notion made by the uninformed when they state something like "why didn't they just shoot them in the leg?".
 
none of you know who, if anybody was in the building behind the truck. the cops shot towards a possibly occupied building at a man that was NOT shooting at them anymore. i just dont see how you guys can think that its worth the risk of shooting innocent people. the fact is the cops shot all of their rounds after he stopped shooting and ran away. maybe he was reloading or getting another gun. maybe he had an RPG. he was still a threat i agree but your statement about "if i was in a fight for my life" doesn't apply to the portion of this incident when 4 cops are shooting a man who is running away and not shooting back. once again, if a civillian had done the same, that person would go to prison for a very long time.
 
justjim75 said:
none of you know who, if anybody was in the building behind the truck. the cops shot towards a possibly occupied building at a man that was NOT shooting at them anymore. i just dont see how you guys can think that its worth the risk of shooting innocent people. the fact is the cops shot all of their rounds after he stopped shooting and ran away.
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I don’t think the police did anything wrong in this instance, especially after being fired on within spitting distances. This was a very dangerous criminal. This guy meant business, he was determined, and by the looks of the video was not afraid to die or confront the police (as shown in the shootout.)

What if the police didn’t fire back and he ended up driving over kids on a bus stop. Or they ended up in another shootout in a busy intersection where more people were? IMO this guy needed to be stopped ASAP. At some point(s) when lives are at risk we have to give our Men and Women in uniform a little leeway…they put it all on the line for us every day of the week.
 
That's it in a nutshell.

Back to the cops habving to make decisions in seconds that lawyers will have months, if not years, to decide if they were right or wrong. I suspect that if the likliehood of the suspect moving on to other victims didn't have to be factored in many Cops would try other ways to contain a suspect. Often their hesitation leads to their own death. I have been shot on the job. Waiting until the suspect had a chance to shoot me before my risk assessment keyed me to shoot cost me many painful months in rehab and lost time on the street while driving a desk. I was blessed by God. I helped bury two field training students and a high school classmate. All killed by violence of others on the job. I have attended far too many Cop's funerals to criticize them for taking action to protect their lives and the lives of others. Curious thing about Officers killed while on duty...None that I have known, even knowing that the chances were great that they could lose their lives and their family's futures, would take back their actions that lead to their deaths. That dedication to their fellow humans deserves more than micromanagement. Regards, Al
 
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