Pledge of Allegiance...

C

Cowled_Wolfe

New member
I've been noticing something which (to me, at least) is alarming and saddening -- and kinda frustrating too. I'm still in highschool, I'm a Junior. Every morning, the pledge of allegience is recited over the school's intercom, followed by morning announcements... Students are supposed to stand and recite along with it, hands on hearts, as most of you might remember from your school days... But over the last year and a half or so, I've been noticing alot of students choosing to just stand there. No hand-on-heart, no reciting the pledge. Just stand there for 15 seconds and look impatient.

I've been noticing that on average, 1 out of 10 won't do it.

I caught a friend choosing not to; I asked why: "Because I have the right not to"... He's not my friend anymore.

Anyways... Every time I see this, it gets under my skin. I've seen people do a modified pledge -- all normal, less "Under God" -- and that's ok, I suppose, because not everyone's Christian/Creationist/etc... But not saying the pledge?

"I pledge allegiance, to the flag,
Of the United States of America;
And to the Republic, for which it stands,
One nation, under God;
Indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Wolfe... (Who's a darn proud American!)
 
So you have a problem with your former friend, and anyone else, making decisions for themselves about what they will or won't swear an oath to?

You expect that they should simply swear the oath ("pledge") because they are expected to?

And you call that "freedom"? :rolleyes:


Maybe these people understand more of what freedom is about than you do. Ever think of that?


-blackmind
 
No... It's not that I'm on them for not doing the oath; I'm just annoyed at the general lack of national pride I see daily.

Wolfe.

Edit: I see the pledge also as being a sign of loyalty to America -- regardless of pride or not... Imigrants are expected to say the pledge before becoming citizens, so why should any native-born American be held to a lesser standard (IE: not pledging)?
 
You strike me as an articulate, intelligent high school student. "I like ya, kid -- you remind me of me!" :p

I didn't mean to pick on you. It's just, you gotta be careful when you let youreself get upset when others make choices that are not the ones that you would make. They have that right. And it doesn't even necessarily make them bad or unlikeable people!

"National pride" can be a good thing; it can also be a dangerous thing. (I knew you'd enjoy it if I used a semicolon! :p ) Let's be careful. If they have issues of discontent with the country, that too is their right, and they may manifest it by withholding their "pledge."

It sounds to me like you are just dealing with typical high school slackers, the kind of kids who just don't care about anything. No values, no morals, down on everything. Or just plain unintelligent. You've probably noticed by now that unintelligent people can easily annoy you. It's the price of being smart. You suffer the realization that not everyone has useful thoughts going through their heads, and you can't even relate to their existence.

My advice is to just get over it.

-blackmind
 
so why should any native-born American be held to a lesser standard?
Click to expand...


Because if American freedom is to mean anything at all, requiring people to say an oath is anathema to that notion.

Think about it. Being required to say an oath to a free country is oxymoronic. "Being held to a standard" is the next-worst thing to being actually required and forced to say the oath if you don't wish to.

-blackmind
 
Y'know... I just backspaced a couple paragraphs of response... Our views differ, and neither of us is gonna change to fit the other's. I'll concede that requirements and standards, as well as national pride, can be dangerous and bad at times. I'd just like to note the condescention so many youth these days have with regards to our country; that fella's not the first, nor the last, I've asked about. The thing they all held in common was a tendancy to disassociate themselves from their country...

Anyway, we could keep going for point and counter-point all night, but I'm gonna stop my end of it here. Continue if you wish.

Wolfe; who enjoyed your use of a semicolon. :p
 
I've been out of high school for a couple of years now (thank God), and when I went, not many people said the pledge either. Usually, only around a third or quarter of the class said it, no more.

I don't blame them, either. If they do announcements first hour, the average student is stuggling to stay awake and probably doesn't feel like mumbling the pledge by rote every single morning.
 
Gee I feel sorry for these poor guys. Having to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, listening to announcements. I bet they have to change classrooms at different periods. That mean old gym teacher is probably hassling them at gym class. Wow life is tough. When half these losers get out, they're going to find out what tough is. A little dicipline and self control goes a long way. Don't worry about these guys. You keep up with the good attitude, you'll go far. There's nothing wrong about God and Country. Choose your friends carefully. It can affect the rest of your life. Stay strong and good luck with the new school year. Keep us posted
kid
 
You expect that they should simply swear the oath ("pledge") because they are expected to?
Click to expand...

While I agree with the point your making I do feel that lack of discipline
is a growing problem. We no longer feel it necessary that people conform
to what is acceptable. I know the idea of "whatever makes you happy"
sounds good but in a growing population we must have standards if not
all freedom will be gone. In truth if we do not control ourselves someone
will.
 
I wonder if those kids who are bored and impatient standing for the pledge would ever consider standing at attention in a military formation? Nah! Probably not. They prefer someone else fight for their freedom to listen to their iPod, etc. Oh, and if that gets you upset, wait until you go to a ballgame and see the number of kids and older men who don't remove their hat during the national anthem. :mad:
 
I agree that there should be a choice but sometimes people in america are not willing to step up to bat when they are needed. Its becoming a 'its not MY job' kind of country where the masses gladly say America, the land of the free, wave flags, sing songs, recite oaths, sign papers and make promises that they will help just to back out when they are called to do that duty they promised to do saying: I have kids or I am going to college. Welcome to America.
 
I never cared for the loyalty oath originally penned by a socialist that had religion ('under God') put in it by Congress after lobbying by the Knights of Columbus in the 1950's even at an early age. My loyalty and allegiance was to my family first, not the country or its flag. I never did more than mumble through it either.
 
If you choose not to say the Pledge, then so be it. I don't think anyone should be forced, at all.

On the other hand, you should always show it respect. Stand up, leave your hands by your sides, or at your back. Remove your hat if you're wearing one. You don't have to join in if you feel you don't want to, for any reason, but its a solemn, and important, statement to many and deserves the respect shown.

THat said, where'd the mod to close up this thread, I see no firearms! :)
 
I don't much like "the Pledge". Since the Civil War, we are encouraged to see things in a false light. And the Pledge is part of it. It was created as propaganda to foster national pride when the US is not a Nation or Country but rather a Union.

The US is not indivisible, and that is the lie. Secession is a States' right. That is what the Declaration of Independence was all about.

The US is divisible by fifty, and that is why the flag has fifty stars. Originally the US was divisible by thirteen, and that is why it has thirteen stripes.

I kind of wonder about a person who can stare at all those stars and stripes and pledge allegiance to "one Country, indivisible".
 
You're a good kid, Cowled_Wolf. If it's any consolation, your former friend will probably be asking you if you'd like fries or onion rings with your burger, long after you've moved on to a successful career after High School.

It's refreshing to see a teenager who understands duty, honor, and loyalty. Your parents should be proud.
 
"If it's any consolation, your former friend will probably be asking you if you'd like fries or onion rings with your burger, long after you've moved on to a successful career after High School."

That makes very little sense.
 
Hey, I graduated in '04. At my highschool (Catholic), we were told that we were required to say the pledge. I didn't say it for two years. Then they changed thier policy, and I said it every day. In other words, no matter what I was told, I made a decision for myself.
 
While I agree with some of the comments here, I question the topicality of the post here in General Discussion.

I'll punt it over the Legal and Political forum and see if it sits better, there.
 
Different age, different time, different war. School found me in WWII. At that point we were being pounded by the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy in the Pacific, Hitler was dropping bombs and missiles on the British Isles. The greatest admired heroes were our Military fighting the enemy when victory was actually in doubt.

It was not difficuly to love America, sing, "GOD bless America", and "America the Beautiful", as well as our national anthem, and speak the words of the Pledge of Allegance (Sp?) straight from out hearts. Most everybody's Daddy off to war, the draft, food and gasoline rationing, tires unobtainable. War bonds and War saving stamps drives everywhere. Mouthy activists who were pro Axis were jailed.
 
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