Personal Affronts and Insults -- A Question

words are words. as a person who has studied martial arts it is engrained into my thinking to avoid all situations that can escalate into something far more dangerous or deadly. if you can, then DO avoid making a situation worse.

responding to an insult can result in the situation exploding into someone going to a hospital, i simply make it a habit of ignoring rude behavior and foul mouths.

now personally i trully detest violence and if possible i will avoid it, not for myself but also for that other person. but i prepare for worst case scenarios, not rude punks in a walmart parking lot.

one thing i learned a LONG time ago, because of my own reactions, you never know how a person will react, so i dont pop my mouth off i dont act rude or unbecoming towards others. THAT other person could be packing, possibly illegally, that other person would probably have no problem taking your smart comment and taking it to the next level you dont want to go to. first and foremost in my own mind is simply avoidance. if i can avoid it i will. if i cant i will dissaude, if not possible i will deter, the LAST option for me is going to be violence, whether physical or with a firearm. lets keep in mind that people have been shot and killed in "road rage" incidents in the past, people are killed for the dumbest things.

i try to be as consistent as possible. whether i have nothing, a knife or a gun my reaction will be the same. you are a sorry pissant trying to be rude and hoping to show your friends or your girlfriend how "hard" you are. well good luck with that. in my mind i know you're a two bit chump with a inferiority complex, your words ring hollow with me and are worthless. if it makes you feel like a big man, go ahead, call my mom a whore if it pleases you. i have bigger things in my life and this incident will soon be forgotten.

any reaction you give other than utter silence can be and WILL be construed as a "ramping up" of the situation. its why they do it, for the reaction, to them its just an excuse to act out because of a mental problem they have. being armed or not is irrelevent and basing ones actions on whether or not your are carrying is IMO (flame suit on) short sighted and dangerous, for you and them. if you're alone or with your family, armed or unarmed, at home or at the store, your first thought should be to process the situation, is this worth it? you have to assume that things will only get worse if you react, regardless how you react. not just for you or them but for both of you. anytime you react there is ALWAYS a chance that it can go to the next level and the next until someone gets hurt.

if they're just running their mouth, let them. let them get it out of their system, its actually funny to see a person keep jabbering while you stand there and do NOTHING. eventually they get tired of not getting a reaction and move on. i've been there and done that. much like a bully once they get their desired reaction from you YOU are in their control and THEY control the situation. without the reaction 99% of the time the situation dissolves and nothing happens. everyone goes home in one piece and uninjured, which is far more important than "retaining" ones honor to some smart mouth kid who simply doesnt know any better.

as tamara had said dishonor isnt just being insulted by some scumbag. part of that honor is knowing when to pick your battles and their is NO honor in reacting to a person looking for someone to verbally abuse. because you can does not mean you SHOULD react to such stupidity. in other words rise above it, recognize it for what it trully is, beneath you, and forget it happened.

just ask yourself, in 15 minutes where will i be/where do i want to be? standing over him beating his brains out? answering questions for cops? sitting in the back of a cop car? in an ambulance on the way to the hospital? dead? its called a forethought, thinking ahead, would you rather be in wally world shopping for xmas gifts or or out in the parking lot in lord knows what kind of situation that can be life altering for you them or both?
 
I just found my new sig line......Thanks Goalie!

Here is what a friend did with the same problem. He armed himself with a video camera and allowed the college students to poop on his lawn, pee on his lawn and generally trash his property. He would bag up the trash, but kept his mouth shut. A month later, armed with video tape, he hired a lawyer, went before a judge and began a lawsuit against the fraternity, the fraternity's sponsors, the landlords and the college. It cost him, big time, but his neighborhood has since changed.

I had the same problem with a house across the street that kept me up all night. Unfortunately, the house had been bought by a man for his boy to live in while going to school. I tried anonymous calls to the police. None of the other neighbors, due to the location of their bedrooms, or perhaps their lack of a backbone, seemed to be bothered. The police would come, the parties would quieten down for about five minutes until the police were gone. This went on for several months.

One night at 3:00AM I finally had enough. They did not want to be civil neighbors. I frankly did not care anymore. I called the police to lodge a formal complaint. The police did not want to do this, as the boy that lived there was from an influential family. I finally shamed the cops into it, by explaining that in the small town I went to college at, police regularly shut down parties after 11:00PM by hauling away the owners/renters of the house for disturbing the peace.

The cops arrested the boy for disturbing the peace. I went to the initial court proceedings where he and his father hoped it would be thrown out of court. I would not allow it to be. We went before a judge. I was there. The boy was fined $65 and court costs. I lost two days of work, but so did the boy's father. The boy now has a misdemeanor on his record. He still lives there. Occasionally we see each other. We have not spoken a word to each other. He still has parties. If the police arrive, however, the party is over.

I do not know if this will work for you, but investigate the laws in your area concerning it. Find out who is in control and go after them. It will not stop until you make it stop, and the only weapon you have is the law or the moving van. Good luck to you.
 
I have a good friend that has taken the conceal carry course, shot the requesite score, trained with me and has not gotten a permit nor carries a gun because he knows his temper is not fully under control. He doesn't go where he can get spun up. He doesn't associate with a rough crowd. He just knows himself well enough to know that he might be red hot with anger instead of cold with fear when he pulled a gun.
 
It used to be that, if a Gentleman was insulted by someone of the lower-class, the Gentleman could either ignore the fool as being beneath contempt, or beat/kill the fool as punishment for not knowing its place, depending on the Gentlemans mood and temperment at the moment.

Either one was considered perfectly acceptable by the ruling class, and if the Gentleman killed the peasant/hooligan, nothing would come of it, as it should be.

Nowadays we have the crazy notion that everyone, from civilized citizen to barbaric slum-dweller (or preppy psychopath), is equal and deserving of equal treatment. :barf:

It should be as it was were productive and civilized citizens could arm themselves against the predations of the barbarians amoung us and, if accosted by one of these untermensch in either verbal or physical manner, take them out and not have to worry about a legal raping by the 'Justice' system, because the laws would be such that it would be considered every citizens duty to enforce civil behaviour in public.

Ever seen some young ghetto dweller lounging in the handicapped seating bench on the bus, while a woman with crutches (the kind used in both hands with elbow braces for walking) is struggling to stay standing because he doesn't have the good manners to move, and the driver doesn't care because he could lose his job if he spoke up?

I did, and I made it a point to move his butt off the bench. He talked a lot of s***, but he didn't want nothing to do with me, and the woman got to sit down like she should have been from the start.

In a more civilized time, within the lifetime of some people here, this punk would have been thrown off the bus by the driver, passengers helping if he resisted, and maybe got a good beating by the police to boot.

Just last night, I had someone drive by as I'm waiting for a bus shout "F*** You!" at me with a megaphone. :rolleyes: First time I've ever had that happen to me (the megaphone), but not the first time I've had obscenities yelled at me, objects thrown, and even shot at (once).

Amazing how brave some people get when they're going 55mph. :mad:

Just another symptom to watch for as our society rots from within.
 
An anecdote germane to the collge-town situation:

A friend of mine was walking down the street with a couple other friends, and came upon a group of frat boys from the local University, one of whom was pissing on the sidewalk.

My friend confronted him - "I live here, what makes you think you can act like a bum and piss on the sidewalk of my town??"

The response of the drunken frat boys was to surround him and attack him. One of them held him from behind, while the others punched him.

He was trained in martial arts, so after suffering a punch or two in the face he kicked the frat boy in front of him in the face using the guy holding him for leverage - he was snoring before he hit the ground - then flipped the guy holding him onto the pavement.

At the very moment he threw the kick, the police car came around the corner.

He was arrested, and had to cop a plea to simple assault with expungement on good behavior. The fact that the frat boy spent three days in the hospital was no consolation.
 
Greetings all, this is my first post here, and ive been reading much of the material here for further understanding of todays fine and not so fine firearms... ill begin by saying i dont YET have a permit to carry but will soon... as to Regular Daddys post, let me put it this way, i understand just what u mean... but a gun isnt the only thing you should be carrying... after i receive my permit to carry, ill be carrying a .45 a small can of pepper spray, and a folding blade, so if a situation arises, and the BG doesnt need to be shot.... perhaps he wasnt that threatening...maybe he was threatening u with a ball bat from 25 feet away.... pull your pepper spray and nail him... trust me this will put 99% of grown men to their knees begging.. and if he keeps coming then you raise your firearm and do what u have to do. there are several levels of self defence... ive faced many situations like the one youve described.. and being well trained in the martial arts for over 19 (near 20 years now) has taught me to have a respect for human life.. as many of the things i know can render a person permanently injured paralyzed or dead within a few seconds... ive walked away from alot of situations where i probably could have beat the living snot out of someone.. but chose to be the bigger man and walked away... the only time i defend myself physically is if someone takes a swing... then their all mine =) but other than that i have never hit someone first and probably never will unless theres very good reason, as knowing what ive been trained in 90% (give or take) of society has not recieved such training, im sure im not the only one that has trained in the arts extensively on this board, the reason i study is the same reason that i will be carrying a sidearm: to defend my own life, and those that i love, not to have power over others, while it does have other benefits, staying in shape etc.. where as i am in my mid 20's a DBL whopper with cheese seems to stay with me now... so anyway ill stop rambling now and just leave u all with the thought that there are several levels of self defence if a situation should arise... from simply having to strike someone to get their attention and stop them from doing something stupid, to having to break limbs dislocate joints and remove body parts they are fond of... and lastly having to take someones life... u must adapt to your situation and surroundings at all times.. remain aware of your surroundings and think something through before u do it, i know that some situations dont allow such time, but that is where one relies on training. and hopefully in the end u can go home and sleep at night.

hope this somehow enlightened someone somewhere :P
 
Greetings DarkKnight01, and welcome to TFL. As to your post, you are right. There are many ways to defend oneself, and you will find no trigger happy guys around here that I have seen. (Unless that poor paper target gets the better of 'em :D )

But it would be a terrible thing to end someones life for sure, either by gun, or any other way....BUT, I believe you need to be trained and ready to STOP THE THREAT to yourself, loved ones, ect. And if unfortunately that ends in someones death.......you have to be prepared for that also.... :(
 
There are two sayings I heard a lot growing up that I try to remember.

1) the person who is nice to you but is mean to the waitress is not your friend.

2) when insults fly just remember that you've been called worse by better.
 
I'm learning not to escalate public confrontations, but, dang it, my wife does it too! She was jostled out of the way by a rude woman at Walmart the other day. My wife made an audible comment and we left the area. I asked her to NOT do that, not when she's carrying, and not when I'm with her and carrying. Then she was peeved at me also. Guess we need a little talk.
 
"I'm learning not to escalate public confrontations, but, dang it, my wife does it too! She was jostled out of the way by a rude woman at Walmart the other day. My wife made an audible comment and we left the area. I asked her to NOT do that, not when she's carrying, and not when I'm with her and carrying. Then she was peeved at me also. Guess we need a little talk."


alaric, I have the same problem, my wife has a hot temper. She hasn't done anything yet to put me on the spot but thats probably because I remind her every time we go out that I'm carrying. I think it gives her a good sobering up.
 
thx Derius_T

i think basically what i was trying to get across was just that, theres many ways one can defend themselves, as there are different levels of combat, so be prepared for them all. and hopefully youll never have to utilize it.
 
DarkKnight, regarding pepper spray:

trust me this will put 99% of grown men to their knees begging..

According to The Effectiveness of the Secondary Weapon of the West Virginia State Police, the CAP-STUN brand OC spray with a 5.5% LEO-only concentration, in 878 incidents where it was used, was "totally effective" (i.e., on their knees begging) only 28.2% of the time, and minimially effective, ineffective, or totally ineffective 29.3% of the time.

Add to that the fact that 5.5% concentrations are not available to the general public, and you see why it so thoroughly infuriates me when Massachusetts police chiefs cluck their tongues disapprovingly when women ask for permission to carry pepper spray when there's a serial rapist on the loose.
 
that would be correct for the crap sold to the general public =)

either way its a good option to carry... it is going to disable the attacker regardless of the extent.. it will make him think twice about what hes doing.. and if he doesnt u go to option 2.
 
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I have to ask of people that carry, if somebody had no weapon, was mad at you, meaning they said I'm going to kick your butt, did not threaten another family member even though another family member might have actually started the confrontation. Would you draw on them? Would you shoot?
 
#1 How do I know he has no weapon? gun, knife, brick laying over there? Fights have no rules. If you enter a fight, the other guy really doesn't care about what you think is fair and unfair.

#2 My job is to deescalate the confrontation and leave, not to stand my ground.

#3 I have seen several people die as the result of beatings that were not intended to cause death. If you think one man cannot kill another with his bare hands, or that an attacker can control the life leaving another's body, you are wrong. How many times have you heard "I never meant to kill him, I just meant to teach him a lesson." I have heard that more than once.

#4 If a man wants to go against a gun with his fists, then he ain't right. He is on drugs, or just slam nuts. He wants to beat me whether he gets killed or not. A man who does not fear death but wants to inflict "an ass kicking" on you is extremely, lethally dangerous.

So to answer your question, if someone says "I'm going to kick your ass" I will try to leave without a word. I will try to save his life for him. If he does not want me to save his life, and decides to attack my retreating body with physical force, then he will have about 1.5 seconds, from the time I get my hand on my gun to the time I have my sights aligned, to retreat. I am not negotiating, and I am not arresting him. I am then saving my life, not his. I will fire and hit center mass as many times as necessary to remove the threat.

Call it cold blooded if you like. I am a peaceful person and I don't go places where people want to kick each other's ass. I am a husband, father and grandfather who does not have a bone to pick with anyone. My family will not be orphaned if I can stop it. I will not trust an enraged man intent on "kicking my ass" with my life. That is what you are doing if you enter a fight. If I am caught in that situation despite my attempts to avoid it, I will act without hesitation.

Don't pick a fight with an old man thinking you can "kick his ass". If you do, you are betting he does not carry a gun. The person who wants to "kick ass" thinks he has the right to impose his will on others. He is the aggressor. Some people like to play with rattlesnakes. Some people get bit. If you don't want to get bit, don't play with snakes. Consider any person who looks defenseless to you in a shall issue state to be a rattlesnake.
 
XavierBreath: u do make some valid points, but im not sure if such a physical threat would warrant murdering them... this has made me think a good bit, i think a stun gun would be ideal in this situation. their very compact and light easily carried along with your firearm and pepper spray - another tool that could be used in this situation. just because some young hot head wants to get in a fight to proove his dominance doesnt mean he needs to die, it just means hes a red blooded male full of testosterone. so before pulling that gun and taking someones life in that situation i hope u have a better defence prepared than: he COULD have beat me to death, im just an old man.
 
There is an element of the law called disparity of force. Old men are not expected to fight 200 pound muscle bound hotheads. Neither are women or anyone else. The law does not require anyone to take a beating when some jerk deems they deserve it.

If he is not satisfied in his dominance when I retreat, then he has made his choice. I'm not going to walk around with a bat belt full of stun guns, pepper spray, kubatons, cell phones, pagers and a umbrella in the buckle. I keep it simple.
 
I understand your position XB, and my post was meant to hopefully cause a discussion, of when it is correct to use a gun, before ccw I have helped people in situations before, I want my wife to get her CCW, because I do not go to the store with her as much. I hope somebody would be around like nbk2000, to give you a hand. I appreciate everybody's comments and hope we can keep a good disscussion going. Thank you.
 
Honor, in most of its classical guises, is not really compatible with a society based on equality.
Click to expand...

I would argue that equality and freedom are incompatible.

Further, I do believe we should legalize duelling. That is, if two adults consent to meet in a certain field or wherever and do their best at bashing each other's brains out, who am I to stop them?

The value of my life and honour relative to each other, isn't it something I should be able to determine myself? Wasn't a war fought in America over a person's right to own himself - and won by the right people? Those are question. You consider the answers.
 
XavierBreath: "If he is not satisfied in his dominance when I retreat, then he has made his choice. I'm not going to walk around with a bat belt full of stun guns, pepper spray, kubatons, cell phones, pagers and a umbrella in the buckle. I keep it simple."

now thats going a bit far heh, carrying a firearm a stun gun and a can of pepper spray is hardly much weight to carry.... the weight of a stun gun is lighter than your spare magazine most likely if you carry one...

but either way when it comes down to it, its your choice to shoot someone that is unarmed... i myself would use different levels of defence, as there is different levels of combat, which i stated and tried to explain in a post previously in this thread. as i cant see shooting someone dead for looking for a fight... id squirt em inna eye with some pepper spray and see how he likes them apples... then go to other means if that didnt stop him. then you go to option 2, which would be a stun gun. perhaps u get disarmed, by this time if your in a "normal" neighborhood someone has noticed and police are likely on the way..... there is however situations where i would pull a gun... if there was more than say 2-3 of them i would then feel my life was in immediate danger... and more than likely could legally get away with killing one or 2 of them.... im sure theres got to be some LEO's here to give further input on this... i just dont see the justification of killing someone being "I WARNED HIM!!" thats no different than saying i warned him to shut his mouth or i would kick his a**, you would go to jail for assault..

and no it doesnt warrarnt someone taking a beating just because someone deems it necessary... thats called "assault" not attempted murder...

as im not a LEO or an attorney so im not really that familiar with the extent of whats legal and what isnt exactly in these types of situtations... would be nice to hear from someone that knows..
 
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