Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America

Yes, what about those threads? (Harley had originally posted links to two threads, seems he has now edited one out). On (was: "the second one") one of them, someone quoted Franklin -- "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security will soon have neither." That sums up my informed opinion on the subject.
 
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That's more of a paraphrase, but a very apt one. Methinks we need to fire up the WABAC machine and put a bug in Ben's ear. ;)
 
lol..greg..you left out burning subversive reading materials in the town square:D and forming a new youth movement to mature into good social elitists.:D :D through politically correct education.:rolleyes:


I guess Im opinionated, traditionally old fashioned and have strong beliefs in just doing the right thing. Ben Franklin was a wise and educated man,we could use some of what he said fer some good today..one thing is fer sure, things arent what they used to be but its still the best place in the world to be.
 
Patriots and talkers.

Ben Franklin was a good patriot. So were others.

England considered them traitors. So I guess it is who is in charge and who won the war that counted.
Ben Franklin was a great inventor and among other things, well spoken. He mentioned much that caused many to fight, through newspaper's and printing. He had little formal education, read a lot and was very intelligent.

I wonder how many men he killed in battle. Talk is cheap when it comes to killing. Some of the greatest were orators and egging on the crowd.

Not to take anything from them, but many never had to fight for anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin

Edit: Really you ought to read about Ben, His 13 virtues. The man was famous for what he did and did not do.
Some hypocracy is noted also, died at 300 pounds, child out of wedlock. Hmmm

So if Ben can get away with it, why not the rest of us?

HQ
 
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I think that one of the problems with LE these days, is the change in emphasise from violent crime towards more drug-related crime. And, I think that one of the reasons behind this, besides the obvious political motives, is the large amount of revenue that can be generated from asset forfeiture statutes. Allowing the LE or the Government to take the property of "criminals", with very little chance that the owner can reclaim his property, is a huge break with how the Government was, and how it should be. We, the People, should demand remedy to this.
 
Harley, in 1776, old Ben was 70 years old. Just how much fight'en do you think he should have done? Even during the French and Indian Wars, Franklin was 55.
 
I think that one of the problems with LE these days, is the change in emphasise from violent crime towards more drug-related crime. And, I think that one of the reasons behind this, besides the obvious political motives, is the large amount of revenue that can be generated from asset forfeiture statutes. Allowing the LE or the Government to take the property of "criminals", with very little chance that the owner can reclaim his property, is a huge break with how the Government was, and how it should be. We, the People, should demand remedy to this.
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I don't sense a change in emphasis on drug crime vs. violent crime. However, since showing SWAT entries makes for good television, I think the "war on drugs" has gotten a lot more attention. Watch any of those "SWAT" tv shows that are coming on lately (I haven't yet). You'll see drug raids. You don't see or hear about raids on violent criminals by the SWAT/tactical teams because that's generally not how the violent guys are caught or dealt with. It's the drug dealers and the like who are sitting at home at 0430 who get the door knocked in. Violent criminals don't generally have snitches tipping the police to their whereabouts. THe violent guys get caught committing a crime or on some stupid minor traffic violation which subsequently shows the officer a warrant for their crimes.
 
I don't sense a change in emphasis on drug crime vs. violent crime. However, since showing SWAT entries makes for good television, I think the "war on drugs" has gotten a lot more attention. Watch any of those "SWAT" tv shows that are coming on lately (I haven't yet). You'll see drug raids. You don't see or hear about raids on violent criminals by the SWAT/tactical teams because that's generally not how the violent guys are caught or dealt with. It's the drug dealers and the like who are sitting at home at 0430 who get the door knocked in. Violent criminals don't generally have snitches tipping the police to their whereabouts. THe violent guys get caught committing a crime or on some stupid minor traffic violation which subsequently shows the officer a warrant for their crimes.
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First off, I don't really watch TV, so I cannot comment about various SWAT shows, and the like.

Second, the War on Drugs is more of a political tools then a legitimate way of combating drug use. The WoD puts more drug users in jail, every year, then violent criminals are jailed, leading to our overcrowded prisons. Adding to the political gains are the financial rewards to the PDs and various other LE agencies, via asset forfeiture laws, and what not.

However, the problem with the militarization of police raids is while they, the raids, are used against "violent criminals," they are also used against non-violent criminals and suspected criminals. With the inefficient system of informants, who are often self-serving, leading to false tips, more and more deaths and unneeded raids. Between 1985 and 2006, at least 40 civilians and 20 non-violent criminals were killed, and 22 LEOs were killed in often unneeded "Paramilitary Police Raids," according to the research done by Mr. Balko. These numbers, of course, leave out like "raids" performed by the BATF, FBI, and other Federal LF, notably the siege at Waco, the Ruby Ridge incident, etc.

While these tactical teams may have some use against fortified criminal redoubts and aggressive, criminal gangs, they have no purpose breaking into civilians homes at 4:30 in the morning, wearing all black clothing and masks, and terrorizing innocent men, women, and children, when the basis of the raid is a "tip" from a real criminal, looking to reduce his sentence.

Sources Used: Botched Paramilitary Police Raids:An Epidemic of "Isolated Incidents" located @ http://www.cato.org/raidmap/
 
Bender, President???

Yep, he "should of, could of" been. :D
But he was whooping it up over in France instead of playing politics in the war torn USA.

Smart man.

BGlaze250,
You have a valid point about "tips". But where I am from most SWAT operations are against violent types.
SWAT was designed to combat the likes of the SLA, Black Panthers, major gang activity, hostage situations, etc., The crime in these big cities is running rampent. And many situations are handled by SWAT. Some bar fights have to have a SWAT group.
Do you really expect a couple of officers to be able to take care of a mini riot.

You don't watch tv? Where do you get your news and views?
Last but not least Drug types are pretty violent. Better check out the TV more often.
I will check out the cato web if you will watch a little more news. OK:)

Pretty obvious to me it is time to move to the midnorth states, I checked cato out, quite a few raids in CA but very few mistakes in the 13 million population City of LA. good show guys and girls.

HQ
 
Wow. I just returned from a TFL hiatus, so forgive my response to an older post from this thread:

My job is not to go home at the end of the shift, as much as I want to. My job is to make sure that YOU go home, or stay home, safely at the end of my shift. That is is the very definition of "Protect and Serve." If I wanted a gurantee for my safety, I would not have signed on the dotted line. I knew the risks and the responsibility that come part and parcel with the authority.

I do this job not for the adrenaline rush, or to feel the heavy weight of the badge upon my chest. I sure don't do it for the low pay, and poor hours. I am not a peae officer because I enjoy spending my days off in a court room, and my holidays with feuding families instead of my own.

I took this job because someone has to do it. Someone has to be 10-8 to protect my family, why not me? While I am at it, I will protect any other family with the same fervor and commitment, whether I like them or not. They pay my salary, they are my employers. An old hand once told me that no matter the crime committed, no matter the attitude displayed by those I arrest or deal with, I am their servant to the end. Itis just as much my job to protect the bad guys as it is the good guys. Increasingly, that line is blurred.

I feel that we, as a profession, could stand to learn a little bit of humility.
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Sir, you are a credit to your profession. If only everyone had your attitude, the nation as a whole would be moral, decent, and just, as it once was.
 
Phetro

Yes it is very nice.

The "protect and serve" was taken off most police vehicles of late, why?

Because it is not there job as defined in the "penal code" and many were confused, with the Hypocracy of it.

It is nice, and I served while that slogan was at it's highest and thinking similar to the poster.
But the courts have case law now that say's that is not the case as a general rule.
Knights in shining armor are in storytales, ask most women they will tell you the truth.

Sad, but true.

HQ
 
Yes, its sad , but its true only because we let it be that way. The worst thing that ever happened to law enforcement, in my opinion, was the USSC ruling that we are not liable for personal safety. Yes, I know we are not, and you know we are not, but before the ruling, at least we tried. However, now that it is "law", no one even tries anymore.

I am not a "knight in shining armor", I am one man, doing what I am paid to do, and taking great pride in it. Mr. Quinn, I do thank you for your service, and I do respect you for it. This being said, I feel that it is officers like you, "Law Enforcers", and not "Peace Officers" that killed the respect the profession once had. This job is not about putting folks in jail, its about helping people. Period, end of story.

None of what I just said matterrs, of course, becuase I am a fraud and a phony, according to Mr. Quinn. It is not feasible that a cop could actually take his job as a servant seriously.
 
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