"Overbuilt" Pistols?

CZ52 in 7.65x25. Weighs a ton and looks like a tank.

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I too, have shot one....and wonderer why Gen. Thompson thought you needed 12 lbs. of gun to shoot the .45 cartridge.....
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My guess is that his thinking (in line with the mindset of pretty much all military thinkers up until the Americans of the late 1950's) was that it had to be robust enough for close combat/trench warfare.
 
CZ52 in 7.65x25. Weighs a ton and looks like a tank.
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A single weak part can make all the "overbuiltness" of a particular design a moot point. The CZ-52 has at least two, that I am aware of (Interwebz hearsay, YMMV).

Yes, the CZ52! I've always wondered if it could be somehow converted to a 9mm?
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9mm conversion barrels have been available in the past.
 
Definitely the Springfield XD line (original line, not the XDS slim). If you compare the slide to comparable pistols like the Glock and M&P, the XD is much thicker and beefier. I've had all 3 and the XD has the most heft when it comes to the slide.
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I have in mind sometime to take down my XD and Glock into parts, weigh them, and try to determine where the XD's extra weight comes from.

Note also the XD has a huge steel locking block pinned into the frame. The Glock's equivalent part is much smaller.
 
A single weak part can make all the "overbuiltness" of a particular design a moot point.
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This is an excellent point. I have a Norinco T-213 pistol and I've (mildly) raved about it here in the past. Not because it is the greatest thing ever (miles from that) but because I snagged it from a small gun shop for $150 and it has brought -FAR- more shooting joy than $150 should bring.

And it's an incredibly sturdy pistol and the steel that Norinco is famous for using is quite evident in this pistol also. It's not huge, but quite heavy for it's size and it's fit well and shoots just lights-out.

But the original Tokarev design that it copied has an irrationally weak disconnector and the one in mine snapped -- making it the world's only "Single Action Always" semi-auto pistol. With a broken disconnector, it became a manually cocked repeater. A self-loader. :p

The part was a direct swap with the Tokarev. It wasn't expensive, hard to find or difficult to replace. But when you see the part you're replacing, your first thought is "aww hell, I shoulda bought three of these..."

The T-213 and/or Tokarev: Solid, over-built, dense like a short length of rebar... but with an inherent weakness and a predetermined failure point. :o
 
Yes, the CZ52! I've always wondered if it could be somehow converted to a 9mm?
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Easily. There were conversion barrels made for it. I had a CZ52 plus the conversion barrel for a while. I never shot it because I hated the way the CZ52 felt in my hand. I got it in a trade and then used it in another trade a month later.
 
+1 for the Jericho/Baby Eagle steel frame.

At 37.9 oz, it is closing in on the IDPA allowable max of 43 oz.

Not suitable for a CCW unless you've got heavy duty suspenders :D
 
I don't care for any gun that is "overbuilt".

To me, "overbuilt" means "overweight" and you just end up with more metal that you simply do not need. I dislike that intensely.
 
And I think we'd agree that "underbuilt" isn't what we want, as it would seem prone to failure at some point, right?

So apparently, there is a happy spot RIGHT between those two where there won't be any excessive weight, yet it won't become any manner of a failure point. Of course, they could build it to withstand 5,000 rounds, and that would keep 95% of the buying public happy as they won't ever find that limit.

But most of the folks in this forum certainly would, probably in 3 years time or less, reach & exceed that number.

So I wonder what a gun maker is to do to find that happy spot?

(hmm, they'd probably OVER BUILD it to a safe margin...)
 
I don't think any of them are OVERBUILT. I think they are mostly properly built, to last a lifetime or more like durable goods should. :cool: I do have some brands I will not own, but that's different.
 
I know this is the autopistol section so I'll keep it brief, but it's like the Ruger security six and the GP100. The security six was considered tough and beefy for it's day, ablso to withstand a lifetime of magnum shooting... but for some reason Ruger brought out the even heavier GP100 which is built like a tank but is simply not needed for 99.99% of buyers. The GP100 will take a lifetime of max power handloads, but who the heck does that with a .357 revolver? Mostly people shoot .38s anyway.

NOW sorry, back to autopistol land we go! :D

My Zastava M70A does seem a hair bit overbuilt, but the gun does balance and point well.
 
but for some reason Ruger brought out the even heavier GP100
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Ruger needed to update their revolver line for streamlined and more cost-effective production. It's easier for Ruger to make the GP-100. It was also one heckuva great sales tool, to bring out a "new & improved" medium sized revolver and they have sold like hotcakes. Ruger, it seems, sure knew what they were doing.

The GP-100 may seem massive, over-built and unnecessarily bulky or huge in your opinion, but it's hardly this compared to other .357 Magnum revolvers on the market, including the single model that introduced .357 Magnum to the world. Dan Wessons are every bit as big or bigger. Colt's Trooper, King Cobra and Python are as big as any GP-100 and not running cast frames. The N-frame Smiths are larger, beefier and even more overbuilt. The .357 Magnum Redhawk is even bigger than the Smith & Wesson N-frames. Though not a double action, Freedom has built a .357 that would eat GP-100's for breakfast.

In the 80s, the rage for .357 Magnum revolvers was the big, full barrel underlug. The S&W L-frame made the much earlier trend started by Colt extremely popular. The GP-100 cashed in on this in a big way.

If you shot a lot of very heavy .357 that runs to the end of SAAMI spectrum, you'd see the advantage of the revolvers you now believe are unnecessarily over-built. Heavy stuff from my Model 28 is just a lot more enjoyable to shoot than it is even out of my 6-inch Model 686. There is a place for these guns, that's for sure.
 
It is sort of amusing to see the P7 called "a whacking great clump of ordinance steel" and "overbuilt". I once read a post by a man who called the P7 a small pistol, and compared it to the LCP. When I inquired where he had gotten that idea, he informed me that the book he had showed it to be in that size range, and nothing I could say would change his belief that the P7 is a small pocket pistol!


Jim
 
Colt's Trooper, King Cobra and Python are as big as any GP-100
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No.

GP 100 is bigger than Dan Wessons or Colts.
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Dunno 'bout DW, but the GP 100 is larger than the Colt Trooper.

The Trooper takes the same speed loader as the Security/Speed Six guns..... and the Security Six has less clearance for it than the Trooper (Trooper's crane swings out further?)

The GP100 uses a larger size speed loader- more distance between the holes, so the cylinder must be larger .....
 
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