Our economy
- Thread starter BerettaCougar
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JuanCarlos
New member
Is the warranty transferrable? If so, then it's largely because human beings can be silly, silly creatures when it comes to new vs. used sometimes.
As far as value creation, the service sector can create value indirectly at least. Maybe not so much with massages, but certainly in retail. The less time I spend looking for the things I need and/or want, the more time is available to me to be productive. For some portion of the population that time will be spent creating value/wealth, whether at their jobs or in things like home improvements.
Good point Nobody Special. It also shows the importance of global trade. Wealth is generated by bring in from the outside more then is put out. A tangible good holds a value created in it's manufacture that exceeds the sum of materials and labor used to produce it.
There are answers to America's manufacturing industry's problems. But without relief from over regulation and the growing sense of entitlement by American workers those answers can't be implemented. Punishing success as unfair and rewarding mediocrity in the name of help is a destructive philosophy.
Failure has to be experienced. Sorry, but people learn only from pain and fear of pain. I of course don't mean actual physical pain is necessary although we are very careful with hots and sharps after such experiences. Discomfort/pain, dissatisfaction/pain is the analogy. When the pain of failure is allowed to be experienced the result is a person that is motivated not to repeat or remain in that situation OR a person that resigns to ALLOWING themselves to remain and accepts the situation. Successful people arn't lacking failures, they reacted to them differently by getting up one more time then they were knocked down. Personal decisions that produce individuals that either accept their status or excel to a higher one. What made America the great nation it is that the OPPORTUNITY exists to excel. Equal rights are not the equal right to succeed but the equal opportunity to. The results are decided by the individual.
The American politic of entitlement is exactly what the dangers of a pure democracy are about. In a pure Democracy it won't take long for people to just vote themselves the wealth of the nation and bring about they're own demise. That is why we live in a Republic. We elect people that will make wise, prudent decisions that are supposed to propagate the continuance of the nation. But what happens when we elect people that will just distribute the wealth of the nation and just like a pure democracy bring about the demise of the nation via the politic of entitlement.
Protect mediocrity and lack of competence from the consequences and punish and hobble those that succeed and the result is a morbidly obese Federal Government that determines your life, liberty, and happiness for you and presents no opportunity or motivation to excel.
Until the sense of entitlement possessed by the American worker and the over regulation of business by the government is resolved the Industrial market of the US won't be back. Unless of course the Government starts manufacturing in State owned facilities.
There are answers to America's manufacturing industry's problems. But without relief from over regulation and the growing sense of entitlement by American workers those answers can't be implemented. Punishing success as unfair and rewarding mediocrity in the name of help is a destructive philosophy.
Failure has to be experienced. Sorry, but people learn only from pain and fear of pain. I of course don't mean actual physical pain is necessary although we are very careful with hots and sharps after such experiences. Discomfort/pain, dissatisfaction/pain is the analogy. When the pain of failure is allowed to be experienced the result is a person that is motivated not to repeat or remain in that situation OR a person that resigns to ALLOWING themselves to remain and accepts the situation. Successful people arn't lacking failures, they reacted to them differently by getting up one more time then they were knocked down. Personal decisions that produce individuals that either accept their status or excel to a higher one. What made America the great nation it is that the OPPORTUNITY exists to excel. Equal rights are not the equal right to succeed but the equal opportunity to. The results are decided by the individual.
The American politic of entitlement is exactly what the dangers of a pure democracy are about. In a pure Democracy it won't take long for people to just vote themselves the wealth of the nation and bring about they're own demise. That is why we live in a Republic. We elect people that will make wise, prudent decisions that are supposed to propagate the continuance of the nation. But what happens when we elect people that will just distribute the wealth of the nation and just like a pure democracy bring about the demise of the nation via the politic of entitlement.
Protect mediocrity and lack of competence from the consequences and punish and hobble those that succeed and the result is a morbidly obese Federal Government that determines your life, liberty, and happiness for you and presents no opportunity or motivation to excel.
Until the sense of entitlement possessed by the American worker and the over regulation of business by the government is resolved the Industrial market of the US won't be back. Unless of course the Government starts manufacturing in State owned facilities.
"Why does it lose 20% of it's value when you drive it off the lot?"
Because it's a Toyota? If it was a Ford it would have lost 30%.
I don't think the economy is in that much trouble. I too am looking for a corporation that is making obscene profits (MEASURED IN DOLLARS PER SHARE). Apple has been on a nice roll for a year or so, but stock gains like that are hard to come by.
As far as the old whine about the U.S. doesn't make anything anymore, all you have to do is look around. How about CAT? "Over half of our sales are outside the United States, solidifying Caterpillar's position as a global supplier and leading U.S. exporter.""
"With 2006 sales and revenues of $41.517 billion, Caterpillar is the world’s leading manufacturer of construction and mining equipment, diesel and natural gas engines, and industrial gas turbines. The company also is a leading services provider through Caterpillar Financial Services, Caterpillar Remanufacturing Services, Caterpillar Logistics Services and Progress Rail Services. Already recognized as a leader everywhere we do business, Caterpillar’s long-term strategy, Vision 2020, outlines our plan to become an admired global leader to delivering attractive returns to stockholders. The expectation of attaining top line sales of $50 billion by 2010, technology leadership and a determined focus on process improvement should result in a compound annual growth rate of 15 to 20 percent through the end of the decade. Caterpillar is driven by a commitment to delivering superior value to customers through great products and unparalleled service and support available to Caterpillar dealers worldwide.
GLOBAL LEADERSHIP POSITION
Today, we have nearly 300 operations in 40 countries. Over half of our sales are outside the United States, solidifying Caterpillar's position as a global supplier and leading U.S. exporter."
____________
Do I have to go on, or can we stop this doom and gloom handwringing and do a little thinking based on facts?
Maybe it's just because my parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles all lived through the Great Depression, but I think things are chugging right along. I mean, there's always something that needs fixing, but what else is new. Anybody that thinks the economy of the '90s and the dot.com bubble is the norm for this country is just plain delusional.
John
Because it's a Toyota? If it was a Ford it would have lost 30%.
I don't think the economy is in that much trouble. I too am looking for a corporation that is making obscene profits (MEASURED IN DOLLARS PER SHARE). Apple has been on a nice roll for a year or so, but stock gains like that are hard to come by.
As far as the old whine about the U.S. doesn't make anything anymore, all you have to do is look around. How about CAT? "Over half of our sales are outside the United States, solidifying Caterpillar's position as a global supplier and leading U.S. exporter.""
"With 2006 sales and revenues of $41.517 billion, Caterpillar is the world’s leading manufacturer of construction and mining equipment, diesel and natural gas engines, and industrial gas turbines. The company also is a leading services provider through Caterpillar Financial Services, Caterpillar Remanufacturing Services, Caterpillar Logistics Services and Progress Rail Services. Already recognized as a leader everywhere we do business, Caterpillar’s long-term strategy, Vision 2020, outlines our plan to become an admired global leader to delivering attractive returns to stockholders. The expectation of attaining top line sales of $50 billion by 2010, technology leadership and a determined focus on process improvement should result in a compound annual growth rate of 15 to 20 percent through the end of the decade. Caterpillar is driven by a commitment to delivering superior value to customers through great products and unparalleled service and support available to Caterpillar dealers worldwide.
GLOBAL LEADERSHIP POSITION
Today, we have nearly 300 operations in 40 countries. Over half of our sales are outside the United States, solidifying Caterpillar's position as a global supplier and leading U.S. exporter."
____________
Do I have to go on, or can we stop this doom and gloom handwringing and do a little thinking based on facts?
Maybe it's just because my parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles all lived through the Great Depression, but I think things are chugging right along. I mean, there's always something that needs fixing, but what else is new. Anybody that thinks the economy of the '90s and the dot.com bubble is the norm for this country is just plain delusional.
John
Playboypenguin
Moderator
I would start by giving you basic computer lessons.
My search (5 seconds ago) turned up 13 pages or articles.
Maybe you just mean you did not find anything that you can actually see with your neo-con goggles on.
JuanCarlos
New member
Before going into condescending mode, you might want to check for type-o's (and or actual mispellings). He got no results because it's Christiane, not Christine. Using "Christine" and keeping both phrases in quotes you will indeed get zero hits.
With "Christiane," you will get (or at least I got) four hits...and none from what I'd consider "reputable" sources. Though I guess what what you're pointing at is (I gathered) a story killed in the mainstream media, that shouldn't be surprising. But I can see how it might not be convincing, either.
Juan is right. The condescension is getting old and becoming an identifying trait. How about a simple link to the search results. Copy the title bar to your post. Then work on the sanctimony. The arguments made so far on the issues you've brought up so far don't justify it. It seems more like a restrained hostility then an aire of credibility.
The tone so far seems to be that you think that conservatives are just 'drinking cool aid' from talk show hosts yet so far all your arguments on various issues are straight out of the talking points of the liberal handbook and so far don't stand up to scrutiny.
You posses a good reputation for your knowledge of firearms. And I'd bet a bit of envy for your collection, it would be a shame to have it changed into something less.
The tone so far seems to be that you think that conservatives are just 'drinking cool aid' from talk show hosts yet so far all your arguments on various issues are straight out of the talking points of the liberal handbook and so far don't stand up to scrutiny.
You posses a good reputation for your knowledge of firearms. And I'd bet a bit of envy for your collection, it would be a shame to have it changed into something less.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
If you google it just as he had it spelled it will still give you pages or responses...and ask if you meant the correct spelling. As for your comment about reputable sources, she is making statements based on first hand experience. What type of sources would be more reputable than that?
I am not really concerned with what traits you want to associate with me. Truth be told the vast majority of my posts on this board are friendly and I do my best to be helpful...and based on the e-mails and pvt messages I get most people see and appreciate that. There are a few people that seem to only come to these boards to troll the political sections and try to pick fights with anyone that doesn't follow their neo-con path blindly and without question.
Some peope might want to ask themselves..."When was the last time I actually talked about a firearm on these boards?"
I look at previous posts for some people that seem to be the most vocal in the L&P section and notice they never post anywhere else or about anything else. That makes me wonder if they are true gun lovers, who happen to also be true conservatives, or political trolls trying to perpetuate a negative stereotype of gun owners. I have very little patience for that type of person, and even though I will not attack them, I will not sit back and not challenge their opinions.
JuanCarlos
New member
Just to clarify, if you kept "Christine Amanpour" in quotes (note this is the mispelled version), and kept "killed story" in quotes, and used a "+" on "killed story," (thus searching for any page that contained both strings, but only if the strings are contained whole) you got zero hits (like so). If you fixthe name and take "killed story" out of quotes, you get a lot of hits, but mostly because it's not hard to find pages that have "killed" and "story" somewhere in them in relation to Amanpour (as you get into actual stories of people getting killed)...poking through the first few hits (I didn't read in depth, because I really don't care that much about the issue) it was hard to tell what you were getting at (like so). With the name correct and "killed story" back together, you get four hits but none are particularly reputable (like so), though I imagine the links on some of those might go somewhere more convincing. Then again, those four might not even be on the issue you were talking about. See what I mean?
Google is a fickle beast sometimes, so if you're trying to make a point with a search it's probably best (as suggested) to go ahead and link the actual search you were looking at (from the URL), and/or or just link a few of the pages. It's not always a matter of skill, as my method which is more refined actually likely show less hits than yours, and given the misspelled name showed none.
Eh. I lurk in the other subforums, sometimes if I'm looking at a gun/accessory purchase, sometimes just to read stuff. I generally don't have much to add there, as I'm not nearly as avid a shooter (largely for lack of funds) as many/most that frequent them. So most of my actual posting here is just talkin' politics.
Not that I even think that was directed at me (since you mentioned conservatives), just saying it's possible for somebody to be enthusiastic about guns but still wind up posting primarly in L&P.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Don't fool yourself...maybe I was looking at you. You do come across a bit shifty sometimes.
Actually, I am referring to people that have hundreds of posts and not one of them don't have either the words, "Ron Paul", "Pinko", "Liberals", or other condemning statement in them directed at anyone that falls to the left of Rush.
They do not have so much as a "boy that is a nice new purchase you made" or a "my favorite caliber is" or even a "welcome the board newbie" post to be found in their history. They seem to always be in the middle of some right vs. left thread.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
nate45
Okay..okay...I will read it....as soon as I get a chance.
I have been meaning to pick up his book anyway. I always like to buy a pinko book like Al Franken along with another book by someone like Buchanan anyway.
Okay..okay...I will read it....as soon as I get a chance.
I have been meaning to pick up his book anyway. I always like to buy a pinko book like Al Franken along with another book by someone like Buchanan anyway.
Shane Tuttle
Staff
...and I ask again. What good is industrial and agricultural productivity if there isn't a consumer? If you don't have a consumer to buy and use the product, then the industrial and agricultural productivity is useless...
Consumer confidence is another key role in evaluating the economy. That's where the trade deficit and gov'ts budget deficit gets tied, LOOSELY I'd admit, to consumer confidence...
As far as the corporate fat cat CEOs and such statement: The only thing that I can say is that I work for an aviation maintenance facility as a crew chief on anything from single engine pistons to mid size corporate jets. We have some pretty rich people bring their planes through our doors. Recently, (as an example) a NASCAR driver dropped off his plane for a paint job and a heavy inspection. On the maintenance side of his bird, I led up the project. These jets aren't cheap to keep up. Durable goods are used to manufacture and upkeep the aircraft. Parts break down. Properly trained technicians are required to repair it. Reputable companies are necessary to have in place to bring in the business of this magnatude. No offense to mom-and-pop shops, but when have you last seen a $40,000,000 aircraft stuffed in a T-hangar? You won't see it. Why? Because it takes companies with MONEY flowing out the wazoo to be certified to work in these aircraft. They have to dump the money into proper tooling. FAA requirements are that a repair station must have ALL the proper tooling (jacks, borescopes, etc), a covered facility and certified factory trained technicians to perform the work. Companies dump MONEY into our training. My company invests a LOT of money in itself and into ME. Does the owner deserve to make millions? You're damn right he does. He earned it. It's his name on the building, not mine. Capitalism at its finest. I make him money. I give his customers a safe aircraft to fly. I get paid for my skills and qualifications. Owner in turn invests more money into his own company and the cycle keeps going...
If it weren't for our business making money, I wouldn't have recently gotten 401(k) with company match, year end profit sharing, more paid holidays, etc.
So, the long of the short of it is that a "service" economy and "durable goods" economy go hand in hand. So what if CEOs get mucho money. Am I upset that they take the money and run on a regular basis? Yes. Is this my biggest concern? No. The money they make compared to what the overall money the company makes and jobs they provide is small potatoes.
On the flip side, if the economy was actually going to take a major downturn, we usually see it coming. A lot of our customers are smaller businesses and will slow down flight schedules and use their aircraft less. This is a pretty good indicator on how the private sector is doing in the national economy. Right now, we've been very busy overall the past several years right after 9/11. We had some slow times, but none that has worried us. If our owner thought the economy was a major concern, I don't think he would have built a $6,000,000 paint facility in 2003 (yes 1.5 years after 9/11) and spent hundreds of thousands in training and tooling for targeting jets that we didn't have a niche for to begin with.
And, I'm not even going to begin to explain what John Deere has done for our area. They've kept our area together through the tough times since my step-dad worked for them many moons ago....
Looks like Pat Buchanan has some good points. He is an insightful guy. The Social Security, Medicare, et al are just the entitlement politics I was referring to. And we actually have candidates running for office PROMISING more entitlements and RAISING taxes.
I find it strange and rather pretentious that people can't justify their politics past hostility and deflection yet they expect other people that actually own businesses, make payrolls, lead men and lead leaders to take them seriously. Are those that work off what they actually know supposed to pretend that what someone else thinks or feels but doesn't hold up to scrutiny is somehow beyond reproach?
If your assertions can't stand on their merits expect rebuttal. Respond with condescension, sophomoric hostility, or sophistry and expect to be called on it. Politics is a battle of ideas. Bad ideas will get disseminated.
The thing that makes TFL's L&P an excellent place for political discussions is that we aren't brought here by our political perspectives. Our commonality isn't that we are Conservative or liberal, Democrat or Republican, but that we all recognize the 2nd Amendment as an individual right to keep and bear arms. We are all gun owners and hopefully avid shooters. I personally have the attitude that proficiency rather then plurality make me well armed. There are a wide range of interests represented here from gunsmithing to C&C but none of those things makes us more or less credible on L&P. One's assertions and their ability to stand up or not will effect that.
The folks that use adhoms such as 'pinko' and 'neocon' lack such credibility before the body of their text is even taken in. And 'taking liberties with honesty' about someones post history would be flagrant dishonesty bordering slander. Of course that tactic would only be used as a last resort for people that had difficulty with honest debate.
I find it strange and rather pretentious that people can't justify their politics past hostility and deflection yet they expect other people that actually own businesses, make payrolls, lead men and lead leaders to take them seriously. Are those that work off what they actually know supposed to pretend that what someone else thinks or feels but doesn't hold up to scrutiny is somehow beyond reproach?
If your assertions can't stand on their merits expect rebuttal. Respond with condescension, sophomoric hostility, or sophistry and expect to be called on it. Politics is a battle of ideas. Bad ideas will get disseminated.
The thing that makes TFL's L&P an excellent place for political discussions is that we aren't brought here by our political perspectives. Our commonality isn't that we are Conservative or liberal, Democrat or Republican, but that we all recognize the 2nd Amendment as an individual right to keep and bear arms. We are all gun owners and hopefully avid shooters. I personally have the attitude that proficiency rather then plurality make me well armed. There are a wide range of interests represented here from gunsmithing to C&C but none of those things makes us more or less credible on L&P. One's assertions and their ability to stand up or not will effect that.
The folks that use adhoms such as 'pinko' and 'neocon' lack such credibility before the body of their text is even taken in. And 'taking liberties with honesty' about someones post history would be flagrant dishonesty bordering slander. Of course that tactic would only be used as a last resort for people that had difficulty with honest debate.
Less than 10% of the people have more than 90% of the wealth. If you divided it up equally, in 20 or 30 years 10% of the people will have 90% of the money again. And the 90% that don't have it will be looking at everybody but themselves for an explanation.
If you want to increase the wealth of this country simply increase the education, ambition, and determination of the citizens.
If you want to increase the wealth of this country simply increase the education, ambition, and determination of the citizens.
