Open Carry Counter Rally For Gun Rights

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There are the pro gun people, the anti gun people, and a majority of people not in either camp. We need to win over the people who are in neither camp. This is a democracy we live in. Everyone gets a vote. If we want to keep our gun rights we need more people voting with us than against us. Alienating the neutral people will certainly lead to our loss of gun rights. Getting in someone's face or intimadating them is a sure fire way to lose this battle.
 
Alienating the neutral people will certainly lead to our loss of gun rights. Getting in someone's face or intimadating them is a sure fire way to lose this battle....
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And with regard to that, please note the very first sentence in that article darrenlobo linked to in post 31 and I linked to in post 32:
As victims of gun violence spoke about how universal background checks might have saved a loved one’s life, pro-gun supporters jeered and yelled remarks Saturday in Morrisville’s Williamson Park....
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I think anyone who thinks this came out well for Second Amendment advocates is profoundly wrong.

The people in the pro gun rights argument handed massive leverage, specifically free media, to anti-gun rights rally organizers.

That some can't see this in the photos chosen, the captions tweaked and the slant of the copy in the coverage, is about bias in the observer.

The rally and counter rally are not about the law, not about the science or data. They have no affect on those arenas. They are about public perceptions. Public perceptions and opinion, like elections, are fought in the MIDDLE. This is not my theory, it is a basic axiom.

Here is how the meeting went on deciding to hold the anti gun rights rally:

Suzy: "let's hold a rally for victims!"
Jimmy: "Great, I can bake cupcakes!"
Debbie: "I don't think we will get much coverage or effect."
Johnny: "Well, if we goad gun owners to coming with rifles slung, we will hit the media jackpot."
 
TDL, you nailed it.

No one is going to be de-sensitized to the sight of an openly carried firearm, period.

We've already been conditioned by decades of mass media message, video, and entertainment to react to the sight of a rifle in public, and that is not going away.
 
No one is going to be de-sensitized to the sight of an openly carried firearm, period.

We've already been conditioned by decades of mass media message, video, and entertainment to react to the sight of a rifle in public, and that is not going away.
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Except when it works, such as in Virginia. They started with the police and reinforced the idea that Article I, Section 13 is a right. Most Virginia politicians understand they may not violate it, though some continually try anyway. The courts supported open carry. It took a bit of education of the police--and a few lawsuits by "attention seeking open carry idiots"--to get the govenment to stop crossing the line.

I periodically see people open carrying handguns in progressive Northern Virginia and they leave no panic in their wake. I have never seen anyone fleeing, making panicked calls to 911 or similar. People generally know open carry is a right in this state and respond based upon the intentions of the carrier and not the presence of the weapon.
 
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What's the point of it? Are the North Koreans gonna invade (HA!) While your walking your dog or going to Walmart? Are you gonna slug it out with a bunch of criminals with your AR-1500.2 slung over your shoulder? Most likely not.

What right do you have to frighten a young child or an elderly person simply because of your "rallies"? You dont, you have the right to open carry, not to cause public unrest by a bunch of guys standing in McDonald's with your Semiautomatic Assault Rifles.

But hey, that's just my opinion, down here in NC no one (that I've seen) has to open carry to "protect their rights".
 
Except when it works, such as in Virginia.
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The lawsuits ensured that government officials would honor the law as written, but can you prove that the practice of openly carrying desensitized the general public to the practice?
 
tomrkba said:
...I have never seen anyone fleeing, making panicked calls to 911 or similar....
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So what? That doesn't mean that all of them have accepted it and wouldn't be happy to vote for someone who said he would put a stop to it.

tomrkba said:
...People generally know open carry is a right in this state and respond based upon the intentions of the carrier and not the presence of the weapon....
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You actually have no idea what people know or what they think or feel. You're just guessing.
 
There's a HUGE difference between seeing one or two people dressed in "business casual" attire or even jeans and a clean shirt with a handgun in a holster on the belt, as opposed to a horde of yahoos in scruffy camo with scary-looking rifles slung over their shoulders.
 
This is why it won't work:

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Look at the guy, he's in her face !

Note the expression on her face ? A pack of yahoos open carrying long guns is the exact same thing. It is "in your face" and, has the same effect, particularly on those who are "on the fence" To those who are already anti's , it only gives them more fuel for their case in the court of public opinion.
 
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No one is going to be de-sensitized to the sight of an openly carried firearm, period.

We've already been conditioned by decades of mass media message, video, and entertainment to react to the sight of a rifle in public, and that is not going away.

Except when it works, such as in Virginia. They started with the police and reinforced the idea that Article I, Section 13 is a right. Most Virginia politicians understand they may not violate it, though some continually try anyway. The courts supported open carry. It took a bit of education of the police--and a few lawsuits by "attention seeking open carry idiots"--to get the govenment to stop crossing the line.

I periodically see people open carrying handguns in progressive Northern Virginia and they leave no panic in their wake. I have never seen anyone fleeing, making panicked calls to 911 or similar. People generally know open carry is a right in this state and respond based upon the intentions of the carrier and not the presence of the weapon.
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How well did it work in California? You went from OC to being illegal in the space of a year.
 
It's always some sweet old lady or mommy type lady on the control side vs. a big burly guy or a big burly woman on the open carry side. Image is a big thing in any debate or attempt to influence public opinion. The open carry guys, especially here in Texas, need a lesson on marketing and persuasion.

Regardless, with both candidates' support of open carry, it seems we are going to have open carry. The only thing that might stop open carry from becoming a reality in Texas is the efforts of the gun control group Open Carry Texas. They might actually succeed in rallying enough anti open carry votes. That Chipotle demonstration was really effective.
 
You actually have no idea what people know or what they think or feel. You're just guessing.
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No, I am not. I have followed OC groups while carrying concealed. Body language exists--you can look it up yourself if you are not familiar with the concept. I do not see the signs of fear at all. This is desensitivation; it does not mean their vote will change with regard to guns.


How well did it work in California? You went from OC to being illegal in the space of a year.
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We need to go over California law AGAIN? People acquire, use and dispose of guns in California at the whim of the legislature because there is no right to keep and bear arms in the state constitution.
 
Posted by tomrkba: People acquire, use and dispose of guns in California at the whim of the legislature because there is no right to keep and bear arms in the state constitution.
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And the Virginia constitution can be changed at the whim of the legislature plus a simple majority vote of the people. No vetoes.
 
Regardless, with both candidates' support of open carry, it seems we are going to have open carry.
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I hate to burst your bubble, but the folks who are actually working with the legislature disagree.

I do not see the signs of fear at all.
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There are several issues with this argument. The first is that, as a supporter of the 2A, you'll have some unconscious bias. It's unavoidable. The second is that people register fear in different ways. The third is that they may not be feeling abject terror, but they may very well be feeling disgust and distaste. The fourth is that you're limited to a rather small sample size.
 
It will be an empirical question - but I'd bet we don't see OC in TX. Even before the Chipolte idiots, it was doubtful.

The really nasty thing is that the OC debate will probably kill our small chance at campus carry.

When looking at practical effects, that is much more important than some clown posturing for Starbucks customers and soccer moms.
 
tomrkba said:
You actually have no idea what people know or what they think or feel. You're just guessing.
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No, I am not. I have followed OC groups while carrying concealed. Body language exists--you can look it up yourself if you are not familiar with the concept. I do not see the signs of fear at all. This is desensitivation; it does not mean their vote will change with regard to guns.
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Actually, you are just guessing.

  1. While there is such a thing as body language, we have no reason to believe that you are reading it correctly.

  2. While you might not see signs of fear, as Tom Servo points out fear is not the only negative response possible.

  3. Even at that, people learn to hide fear and other feelings in public.

  4. You suffer from, and your perception is distorted by, confirmation bias.
 
OK,now,tomrkba,to illustrate a point:

In the face of opposition,you have thrown up your hands,and said "Ok,I'm wrong...."

Is that sincere,or are you just tired,and telling us what we want to hear?Will you now turn away,and find your open carry demonstration buddies,those who agree with you?Will you then discuss us,and decide what to do next?

Now,think about the soccer mom with her kids at the park or the Chipotle customer who says "OK,I'm wrong,you guys go ahead,I'm leaving"

You might misunderstand me,I have nothing against the presence of guns in public.As a kid,I used to sling my rifle and pedal my bike 4 miles to the range on a public road.If I needed to take my shotgun to the gunsmith downtown,I walked down the street carrying my shotgun,as a junior high kid.
I even was allowed to take my shotgun to Junior High woodshop and refinish the stock.All no problem.It was a different culture then.I miss it.

But the fact is,we live in the world we live in.Can we go back to a more firearm comfortable society?Maybe,even"Yes".But there is a style of doing it that takes some patience and diplomacy...and a whole lot of responsible behavior on the part of gun owners.

I suggest a more visible,public welcome shooting activity,like Cowboy Action Shooting,supporting 4H or other 22 youth marksmanship programs,etc.

Turning folks on to shooting in a responsible way is probably the best way to protect the 2nd Ammendment.

If you have 12,000 rounds of 22 LR stashed,you might donate 2000 to a Junior NRA shooting group like 4H.

That will do more for us than 12 mall ninjas showing up at the all you can eat buffet.
 
I'm afraid that carrying shotguns and rifles into public places will become synonymous with open carry. If antis can present a picture of open carry that involves the imagines I've seen from some of the open carry demonstrations, about 80 percent of the battle is over and won for them. This isn't the way to change perceptions of open carry.
 
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