Open Carry Counter Rally For Gun Rights

Status
Not open for further replies.
FWIW, my opinion derives from forty-seven years of watching (and being involved in) the "gun control wars".

The problem for me is that I'm not young enough to know everything.
 
The game is not the hard core antis. It is the folks in the middle who may be neutral. They can be swayed by inappropriate and aggressive looking folk.

My opinion is based on the research of opinion change and the specifics about gun attitudes.

I see nothing useful in the Deliverance Cosplay we have seen.
 
God these things are stupid... Idk why they keep doing them. Count me out. Waaaaaay out. I hear enough of this nonsense from the tacticool bubbas in the LGS.

Ever hear the saying 'no news is good news' thats pretty much how I view gun rights. Mass media has moved on. No one cares except that antis that always do and they are so easily ignored.

Then these noble "DEFENDERS OF THE 2ND AMENDMENT" do something like this and we look foolish and alienate the people who while don't have and interest of owning and using guns or heck are even scared of them but respect our right to do so.

Those people deserve our respect 100 fold because they've given us as gun owners our freedoms not necessarily thru agreement but understanding.
 
Last edited:
I should mention a well known psychology factor called the Inoculation effect. When you make an ill conceived argument for something, the target develops defensive cognitive attitudes against your position. Later, they will not be convinced by better arguments.

I can make an argument for owning EBRs but if a person has seen the Chipolte Two and thinks they are nuts or dangerous - they might not look favorably towards owning them. Then a good argument will be ignored.

The OC demos that we have seen may be prime examples of this. Probably some criminologist is testing it.
 
"Probably some criminologist is testing it."

Or a shrink is writing a paper for submission to the Journal of Abnormal Psychology.
 
Wow, a lot of replies. Last year we had a debate in that same town, Media, PA. There was open carrying in boro facilities where the event was held. (See http://theinternationallibertarian.blogspot.com/2013/03/democracy-unplugged-gun-control-debate.html) No problem came out of that.

We recently did an open cary brunch there http://theinternationallibertarian.blogspot.com/2014/06/open-carry-brunch.html

In Montgomery county, PA we open carry on a regular basis. We once had a state rep join us http://youtu.be/Kk8Enro_VZs Here's my talk & pics of that rally http://theinternationallibertarian.blogspot.com/2013/02/darren-wolfe-at-montgomery-county-day.html Hell Norristown is safer when we're there.

Lastly, here is a counter rally we did near Trenton, NJ http://theinternationallibertarian.blogspot.com/2013/05/in-gun-grabbers-faces-counter.html The negative press wasn't about the guns but as much as it was a pic of one of our guys that got mad when a gun rights hater coughed spittle on him.

The bottom line is that my experience is telling me something very different than what most of you are saying.
 
darrenlobo said:
Wow, a lot of replies. Last year we had a debate in that same town, Media, PA. There was open carrying in boro facilities where the event was held. (See http://theinternationallibertarian.b...ol-debate.html) No problem came out of that.

We recently did an open cary brunch there http://theinternationallibertarian.b...ry-brunch.html

In Montgomery county, PA we open carry on a regular basis. We once had a state rep join us http://youtu.be/Kk8Enro_VZs Here's my talk & pics of that rally http://theinternationallibertarian.b...ounty-day.html Hell Norristown is safer when we're there.

Lastly, here is a counter rally we did near Trenton, NJ http://theinternationallibertarian.b...s-counter.html The negative press wasn't about the guns but as much as it was a pic of one of our guys that got mad when a gun rights hater coughed spittle on him.

The bottom line is that my experience is telling me something very different than what most of you are saying.

What unmitigated garbage! All this so called "evidence", all this so called "good press" is from your blog. That is absolutely worthless to support your view.

Since you're unable to support your claims by reference to mainstream sources, we can only conclude that mainstream sources contradict your claims.
 
I'm not sure citing blog articles written by yourself is really a fair way to ascertain the larger reception of open carry demonstrations.
 
Venom1956 said:
I'm not sure citing blog articles written by yourself is really a fair way to ascertain the larger reception of open carry demonstrations.
I'm sure that it is not.

I might have come across somewhat harshly. But I'm offended that darrenlobo appears to think that we would accept his blog articles as such.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenlobo
I don't know, White Eagle, it also gets us in the media too. I'm not denying what you say I just think we get the greater benefit.

I respectfully disagree. Vehemently.

Have your counter-protest if you will, but leave the guns at home.


Couldn't agree more with the above quote.
Nothing good can come of people "protesting" while carrying firearms.
Really, really, bad image & it emarasses me that responsible gun owners
would take part in such a stunt.
 
darrenlobo said:
Your notion of "bad press" differs markedly from mine. I discount the blog because those tend to be personal editorials with narrow audiences.

But let's look at the newspaper article:


  • ...Steve Kesselman of Holland raised his voice above the crowd to briefly talk about the loss of his 20-year-old son from a deadly shotgun blast after an argument last year.

    “My son is dead! His mother cannot enjoy him anymore because of gun violence! Universal background checks is all we’re looking for. I have nothing against guns!” Kesselman yelled into the microphone

    “Do you believe in unicorns?!” a pro-gun supporter yelled from the crowd.....

  • ...When Kesselman was done speaking, many erupted in applause and some personally came up to him and his wife, Sheryl, to thank them.

    “I think it’s ridiculous the way they’ve been acting. I’m so numb to the idiots out there,” he said of the gun supporters....

  • ...The event forced the cancellation of several Little League games that had been scheduled for the same time at the park...

  • ...Then about 200 marchers walked across the nearby bridge to Williamson Park shouting “Stop the Violence! Increase the Peace!" as they gathered at the base of the stage.

    Supporters of universal background checks mixed with pro-gun supporters who carried signs that read “Hands Off My Guns,” “Stop Fascism,” and “My Right. My Freedom” with a picture of an assault rifle....

  • ...The rally ended with Rev. Moore telling the crowd that gun safety is not a partisan issue.

    “The vast majority of gun owners are responsible gun owners and I want to thank you right here in public for being responsible,” Moore told the crowd. “The problem is that some gun owners are not responsible. This is about human suffering.”

  • ....Andrew Rumbold, gun advocate, and Maria Baratta, for background checks on gun sales, clash over their positions ...


If you really believe that a somewhat neutral non-gun owner is going to come away from that article feeling good about gun owners and gun ownership, you don't know much about human perception.
 
Last edited:
darrenlobo...

A whole lot of serious,thoughtful,informed folks have taken the time to give you honest feed back.

You do not represent me,either;and I,too believe you are vandalizing the 2nd Ammendment.

I ask that you and your associates take a deep breath and consider a reality check.

Your deck is missing a few cards.

Wisdom is one of them.

Respect,for the concerns of those who are not in your party.

I could go on,but why?

Your responses indicate it is a waste of time.

There are times and places where honest open carry is part of the day's work,and I have no problem with it.

But you folks are working at making other folks uncomfortable.Trolling for trouble.That is rude,and it will hurt the RTKBA.You are being "that guy"
And you will never be able to fix what you break.
 
Sigh, with friends like these... who needs enemies? Am i right? Jesus that picture alone is bad enough without all the quotes fiddle cited.
 
Darrenlobo, I hope you noticed in that last link you posted, none of those people were open carrying.
Please, swallow your pride and realize the actions you are trying to justify will more than likely hurt your/our cause.
No one is recommending that you abandon the rally, just that you reconsider your presentation.
 
Darrenlobo,
I think that your intentions are good, but your marketing plan is off.

Your plan would give visual proof that gun owners are "always" ready to over react, that we are always "on the edge."

Dress like you're going to work rather than hunting.
Plan and practice a short, concise speech for news consumption.
Respect the Anti-2as as fellow citizens with mis-informed views.
Provide (via pamphlet and speech) better information as provided above.

There, your civic duty is done and you sound more like a well-thought teacher than a "world is ending" crazy.
 
Last edited:
One thing those protesters need to focus on is clarity of message. What exactly are your friends protesting? I see a bunch of signs condemning government spending, praising Bradley Manning, and the ever-charming "Socialists go home to Europe." The signal's getting lost in the noise, and whatever 2A message you're hoping to impart is impossible to discern.
 
darrenlobo said:
I don't think my blog articles are a way to gauge people's reactions to our rallies. I meant only to make the point that we open cary around here a lot. Most of the time there is no MSM coverage.
As a frequent contributor on the PAFOA forum myself, I am well aware that many people around PA prefer open carry, and the reaction it draws is very different in some municipalities than it is in others. That said, there is a HUGE difference between one guy shopping for diapers in Wal-Mart with his wife and a small-ish pistol on his belt, compared to a rally with 50 or 100 or 200 people (probably dressed in camouflage) strutting around with AR-15s and AK-47s slug over their shoulders.
 
darrinlobo

I'm going to regroup a bit.I still adamantly believe the demonstrations of opencarry long guns is ill advised

But I support efforts to oppose universal background checks,etc.

FWIW,I live in Colorado.We have been there already.Our Gov Hickenlooper is now backpedalling from his signature on the bills.Elections are coming,and Colorado got rid of two State Senators over this already.

Our Sheriff's united to oppose these laws.They had message.

I suggest you study Colorado and how things went here.

You may come up with some message.

Something to consider,we had a successful recall of a State Senator who supported the Co gun laws,and another resigned to avoid recall.

I believe if the general public of Denver,Boulder,etc had seen a lot of AK47/AR-15's in the Little League Parks and restaurants before the recall elections,enough votes may have swung to cause the recalls to fail.

The laws would have been vindicated,and the momentum would have been in favor of anti-gun laws.

Fortunarely,that did not happen.We won.I think there is a good chance that Bloomberg backed Hickenlooper will be defeated.

Of course,I cannot prove my own speculation,but just a little bad PR ,like the picture in this thread,and we may not have regained the political strength we now have.

Remember,your battle is not for approval from like minded individuals.
The battle is to persuade everyday,non gun people that the Freedom defined by the 2ND Ammendment does not represent a threat to them or their families.

There is enough real data to make a case that concealed carry permit holders make the world a safer place.We have gained great ground there.

I have no problem with modern long guns,AR's,etc.

But you have to realize many folks associate them with events like Sandy Hook.

That was an incredibly horrific event.I raised a daughter .I have grandchildren.I have spent some years working in a school.Many of us have tried to imagine the horrible helplessness of having 6,7,8 year old kids being butchered by a nut with a long gun in the very environment where we work.Brave adults did the only thing they could do...they used their own bodies to stop the bullets they could.
Those images do not just disappear with the next pop star scandal in the news.

If I,a gun guy,see you,out of place,out of context,walking among unarmed people with an AR or an AK,my mind will begin filling in the blanks ,and I will err on the side of vigilance.

When General Public sees you open carry an AK,they think of Sandy Hook,they grab the kids,they look for cover.I'm a gun guy,and I might do those things.

You stress people to the flight or fight zone.

Here,on this forum,gun folks are telling you "Bad Idea!"

By what stretch of imagination can you come up with any shred of positive influence for the RTKBA?Explain to me how a non gun person would be converted to support the 2nd Ammendment by your actions?Can you perhaps see some being turned off?Calling their congressman?

What we need is to act in a way that gains supporters.When you are armed,and having a controversial discussion with someone who is unarmed,fear enters into the equation.And you lost.The moment someone fears you,they do not support you.

The friendly wave is to show the hand is unarmed.

Tell you what,to try to help you understand,nothing wrong with wearing a backpack,right?And it might be perfectly within your rights to take it off,set it down,and rest.No problem.You might even walk over to get a drink before you put it back on,right?

You might draw negative attention to yourself if you did that at the Boston Marathon.

Now,how would it work out to have "Backpack Freedom Day" where you and 28 buddies decided to go to the Boston Marathon open carrying backpacks.

If you really want to do it right,have a pressure cooker in the backpack.Pressure cookers are legal,and you have a right to carry a pressure cooker anywhere you want.Right?

That is what you are doing.

Sometimes,just use your head,please?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top