Open Carry California

Alaska:

That map is a huge exaggeration, and is a gross distortion of reality.

California law only makes it illegal to have a gun within 1,000 ft of a K-12 school. Many of the dots on that map are not such schools. They include things like numerous daycares, beauty salon schools, language schools, trade schools from truck driving to film school, Art schools, Seminaries, even an Islamic Learning Center.

For colleges there is no 1,000 ft rule. You just cannot bring your gun onto the campus of the school.

In any event, the situation is not as bad as that map makes it out to be.
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Dear Oregon,

You are right that SOME of the schools in the other link are not included in the 1000 foot ban, but doing a different google search for only public schools doesn't make it come out much better.

http://maps.google.com/maps?client=...local_group&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CDAQtgMwAA

For myself, it is quite impractical to consider open carry where I am at since I have a school right across the street. Every time you knowingly drive past a school zone with an openly carried handgun, you are committing a felony. Logistically, open carry in CA is prejudicially difficult by plan.
 
I'm glad to see there are some who get my point about the low key aspect as opposed to flaunting the big guns.

It goes further though in terms of trying to prove a point that doesn't have to be proved per se. I was watching an open carry video on youtube where the guys were trolling areas where people were likely to call the police. Police show up and want to see some ID, of course these guys are going to refuse because "they know their rights".

Now take a sensible position, cop asks to see ID what's the problem? Show him your friggin driver's license. He looks at it??? Whatever, he asks to check the gun to make sure it's being carried unloaded, guy lets him, cop says to take it easy and you are on your way.

The cop is only asking to see a driver's license to guage the reaction of an unknown situation, for all he knows he has a lunatic on his way to go postal somewhere. The first responsible and reasonable position to take as someone wanting to exercise his rights to open carry is to do everything possible to make any police officers checking things out feel comfortable with the position. In my opinion many social situations hinge on the necessity of carrying ID. The only way to curb illegal aliens is to be able to ask for ID and if they don't have it deport them. The first step for a cop trying to identify a legally carried gun is to establish that you were able to get one and have it registered to you in the first place.

Being willing to show ID is another situation where you might have a "right" to not show one when asked, but what does it hurt to show it? You aren't protecting anyone or proving anything that needs to be proved to stand on stupid "rights" like that. all you are doing is sensibly defusing a potentially escalating situation.

I just wish all the "patriots" proving stupid points were as strongly willing to fight serious grievances like the patriot act itself. Where were all the patriots when that happened? The ones I knew seemed to feel that if you had nothing to hide it was no big deal if the government tapped your phone calls.
 
Now take a sensible position, cop asks to see ID what's the problem? Show him your friggin driver's license. He looks at it??? Whatever, he asks to check the gun to make sure it's being carried unloaded, guy lets him, cop says to take it easy and you are on your way.
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It is sensible. Now that we've established that this is what police should do, I see a guy holding a 7 year old girls hand over there. Better go make sure he's not a convicted child molester violating a parole by being in contact with children. Also, there is a guy riding a bike. Better stop him because he could be fleeing the scene of a crime! And there is a kid in someone's lawn! We better stop him and ID him to make sure he's not trespassing or causing any trouble. Oh you don't have ID, you MUST be committing a crime, get into the back of the cruiser kid so we can verify your identity.

No crime is being committed. It is no different from anything else. Except that there is an in-bred "THERES A GUN!" reaction that makes it OK to deprive people of rights.

The first responsible and reasonable position to take as someone wanting to exercise his rights to open carry is to do everything possible to make any police officers checking things out feel comfortable with the position. In my opinion many social situations hinge on the necessity of carrying ID. The only way to curb illegal aliens is to be able to ask for ID and if they don't have it deport them. The first step for a cop trying to identify a legally carried gun is to establish that you were able to get one and have it registered to you in the first place.
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I agree that we should make the police jobs easier. This does not involve allowing them to illegal search and seize someone. It's an unlawful search and seizure no matter how you look at it. Just because someone is carrying a gun does not mean, in this case, that they have given up any rights. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of law, and LEOs follow and enforce the law. Also, now this is an illegal immigration issue? I'm not sure how that pertains to firearms. Are you suggesting that we deport anyone who carries a gun without ID?
 
I didn't say anything had to change and I am not advocating making it a law to have to show ID. What I was doing was asking what's wrong with showing your ID of your own free will? Doing something you have no reason not to in no way takes away any rights. It just establishes something right off the bat in a situation that could make a cop nervous, that you are not looking for trouble or to prove anything. It gives you the opportunity to tell the cop what you are doing in friendly and non confrontational terms. I might say, "you know I don't have to show you ID, but sure, there's no harm in it".

Try open carry around Bush, either one, or Clinton and let me know how that works out for ya. Same deal if you try it around Obama. The detail responsible for their safety is going to draw the line there, guaranteed. That's using common sense to understand that it isn't going to go over well.

The open carry is an under the radar thing in California or at least was, which pretty much has to be the most anti gun state in the country. The idea of a few clowns trying to prove this point that you can is waving a red flag in front of a proven majority of anti gunners.

Using my common sense it's pretty easy for me to feel safe going into a Starbuck's for a cup of coffee. Which is by the way one more example of this being a ridiculous thing. I carry a gun in situations where it's more possible or likely I will need it. Sorry but the Starbucks dork patrol isn't making me feel safe and warm and fuzzy. They are simply waving a red flag in areas where it can and will be made illegal to do this.

Mark my words here, communities will take the open carry down city by city and county by county. Rather than putting myself in a situation where I am contributing to the demise of this open carry policy by flaunting bigger guns than makes sense for low key defense carry, I'd rather quietly and in a low key manner continue to do what I have been doing, which is carry when I want.

By the way, equating a specific issue like good form for open carry to other everyday things like being stopped for holding a little girl's hand is silly, nothing good gets done because everything is a slippery slope.
 
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Mark my words here, communities will take the open carry down city by city and county by county. Rather than putting myself in a situation where I am contributing to the demise of this open carry policy by flaunting bigger guns than makes sense for low key defense carry, I'd rather quietly and in a low key manner continue to do what I have been doing, which is carry when I want.
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Well, Arizona just went from open carry to No permit required for conceal carry.
Why, because the citizens of that state are not "afraid" to fight for and exercise their rights.
Yeah, they even carry them "big stupid" Glocks...

Jim
 
Try open carry around Bush, either one, or Clinton and let me know how that works out for ya. Same deal if you try it around Obama. The detail responsible for their safety is going to draw the line there, guaranteed. That's using common sense to understand that it isn't going to go over well.
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Someone did just that. A group of them in fact. And one of them had an AR 15. No one was arrested or harmed. Here is a video of the guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLVkmBTith4

It gives you the opportunity to tell the cop what you are doing in friendly and non confrontational terms. I might say, "you know I don't have to show you ID, but sure, there's no harm in it".
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Here in MI, due to many OCers making it clear that they have no duty to provide ID, many LEOs will open the interaction with "I know you don't have to talk to me or provide ID, I just want to ask some questions." These interactions go much smoother.

By the way, equating a specific issue like good form for open carry to other everyday things like being stopped for holding a little girl's hand is silly, nothing good gets done because everything is a slippery slope.
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No, it's not silly. It's randomly stopping someone to ensure a crime is not being committed when there is no evidence to suggest that one is being committed. If OCing is not reasonable suspicion (and in MI it's not), an OCer cannot be Terry stopped solely because they are OCing.
 
Hook686 said:
For the purposes of Penal Code section 12023 (commission or attempted commission of a felony while armed with a loaded firearm), a firearm is deemed loaded when both the firearm and the unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from the firearm are in the immediate possession of the same person.
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http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/cfl.pdf

Is this provision no longer valid ?
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No, I'd say it's still valid.

Note that it applies when committing, or attempting to commit, a felony. So if you're unloaded open carrying, and doing nothing wrong, you're okay. But if you're unloaded open carrying with a loaded magazine or ammunition on your person, and you commit, or attempt to commit, a felony, you get the "loaded gun" enhancement.
 
woodguru wrote: "Sorry but the Starbucks dork patrol isn't making me feel safe and warm and fuzzy. They are simply waving a red flag in areas where it can and will be made illegal to do this."

The "Starbucks dork patrol" is not out to make you feel warm and fuzzy. I find it amazing/sad that somebody in this forum would characterize the legal exercise of a gun owner's right as "waving a red flag". Can we back off on the name calling?
 
I find it rather dissapointing that some people step on thoes who exersize their 2nd ammendment rights.
If you dont agree with it then your up there with the anti's.Here in california not everyone has the opportunity to obtain a ccw and open carry is their only option.What else should they do when no other option is viable.Atleast their doing it with in the confines of the law

I agree with HoraceHogsnort,the name calling needs to stop.
 
First let me state that I am not encouraging anyone to break the law. Having said that, back when in the olden days, LOL, I lived many years in CA.
I had occasion to work in South Central LA. I carried a Light Weight Commander on my person at all times.
I knew of few of the South Central Officers and a few Sheriff Deputies as well, all of whom knew I carried without a permit to do so. All of the ones that knew thought it was a good idea. At the time I was a branch manager of the biggest S&L in the area and had 35 employees. We were robbed frequently. I never displayed or used the pistol during those times as it was in my desk and no amount of money is worth another persons life. However on a couple of occasions I had the need to let bad guys know that I had it while in the parking lot by lifting my suit coat just enough so they could see it. I had my life threatened many many times, which for the most part I ignored but a few were serious.

Yes, I could have been in big trouble if something would have occured and concealed weapon would have been found. My philosopy was this:
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
 
javabum said:
...If you dont agree with it then your up there with the anti's...
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That's hogwash. We can disagree with a tactic without joining up with the Brady Bunch. There has been considerable criticism of the methods of the California open carry folks by well established defenders to the RKBA.

javabum said:
...Here in california not everyone has the opportunity to obtain a ccw and open carry is their only option.What else should they do when no other option is viable....
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And I certainly don't agree that unloaded open carry is a viable alternative for self defense. Aside from the practical difficulties of keeping 1,000 feet from a school, the time needed to load may put one too far behind the curve in a dynamic self defense situation.

It appears that most folks in California who have been openly carrying unloaded guns do not routinely do so as they go about their normal lives. It is being done for political purposes. And considering some of the public reactions I have seen, and considering how close we came to losing even the right to openly carry unloaded guns, it's sure questionable whether it's done the RKBA in California any good.
 
fiddletown said:
We can disagree with a tactic without joining up with the Brady Bunch.
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I agree. OC versus CC does seem to be a huge thing of contention amongst gun owners, and it makes fight our own. And it's from both sides.

open carry with an unloaded gun is stupid,why bother...
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Some people take what they can get.
 
Boba

You know Boba, that depends on whether you are carrying for the nebulous bad guy incident that's possible or if you have something very real in your life that is more than likely, it is probable. I have had businesses in my home that take in substantial amounts of cash and have had gang type extortionists make attempts to intimidate me into "giving" them money and goods.

I have had the probables happen, leaving the grocery store one day with an unloaded Beretta on my belt I actually had a potentially probable waiting for me at the car thinking I would not be armed. That gun was in my hand and ready to rock and roll way before he could get to me. Job accomplished, empty gun won. After he and his coharts making multiple attempts I simply told the leader that I was through with his lame attempts, the police had been contacted multiple times, it was their advice to me to shoot him, and that the next time I saw him I was going to eliminate him. Apparently he believed me because it's been a year and a half since seeing him. I had him sitting on the pavement with his hands in the air asking me not to shoot, and I told him I was giving him one last chance to disappear. Many will criticize letting him go but I personally have seen the police and legal systems fail to hold the bad guys and you are way way worse off than you ever were before because you have a ****** off guy looking for revenge, not payoffs. I made the choice to actually go so far as to eliminate this guy like the vermin he is if I saw him again. Fortunately it hasn't happened, I've even moved to another home to lower the chances.

In my life I have a serious appreciation for being able to carry that empty gun, besides who says it's empty all the time? It's only empty when exposed to public situations where someone in a store might call the law. I walk out of a store and it's not nearly as empty as it's "supposed" to be.

It's easy enough to load and unload that Beretta 86 with a tip up barrel, it's one of the reasons it's my favorite carry weapon.

I'm far less worried about unknown assailants than I am the known ones, it's a little different being on guard and ready in the potentially exposed times than all the time.

It's really hard to argue this with those who are on point all the time.
 
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Back in the day, in LA, I carried loaded, condtion one. Yep, like I said, I would likely been in big trouble if I was arrested. However, I don't speed, look like a potential criminal or do criminal things so the likelihood of that was minimal. My philosophy was, staying alive is my #1 priority and if arrested after I, used a weapon in self defense, was in trouble, so be it. I least I was alive and would see my family again. The bad guy wouldn't.
Like I said, I would much rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
 
I consider a firearm as a tool. Its no different than a Skilsaw. I sure wouldn't carry my Skilsaw around just because I can or to show people that I have one. I carry it when I need it or expect to need it. To carry it at any other time is senseless.


On another note, Woodguru, you sure get into a lot of situations where you have to point firearms at people. http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=426898
Are you some kind of secret agent? :rolleyes:
 
Maybe a different perspective.

Look at the non-gun owners, the very important, VOTING non-gun owners.


Whether you like it or not, the average VOTING, non-gun owner feels a bit
nervous around an openly armed, non LE person. I have heard many folks say
"NO ONE IS NERVOUS AROUND ME WITH MY OC" ..... I wish I could read minds that well.

The average public person seems more comfortable and happier with
out of sight, out of mind approach.

I see a lot of arguements about OC vs CC, and in my humble opinion, (Just mine) efforts to make OC the rule seem like an uphill battle.

I seems like that you would want to fight for CC rights (WITH a LOADED gun) than fight to continue a OC fight that you will have a tough time getting enough votes to support.

Maybe legislation of CC in the city, OC in the country makes sense.

Just my opinion. I am completely happy to have CC here in the GREAT state of Texas. It works. I STILL get to excersize my rights.
 
The open carry is an under the radar thing in California or at least was, which pretty much has to be the most anti gun state in the country. The idea of a few clowns trying to prove this point that you can is waving a red flag in front of a proven majority of anti gunners.
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Would you feel the same way if it was the 1A that was only allowed covertly?

Would you support newspapers only being allowed to print government approved news and only allowing "1A speech" if buried in the classified section disguised as an ad?


Failure to exercise a right is the path to loosing that right. People that get upset by seeing a citizen armed need to wake up. Gun owners that don't support all aspects of gun ownership need to also take a look at history. Creeping loss of gun rights follows predictable patterns and we ARE on that path and have been for decades. Just recently have we started to slowly backtrack.
 
cougar gt-e said:
Failure to exercise a right is the path to loosing that right....
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I keep seeing that said, but I haven't seen any evidence to support it.

Historically, there seems to be evidence that exercising a right in manner found obnoxious by the body politic is likely to lead to losing that right.

Over the years, in many communities, we have seen many zoning and other laws adopted restricting how you can use your own property. In some places you may not work on your car in your own driveway in view of the public street. In some places you must get design approval of remodeling or landscaping visible to the public. In some communities, you may not park or store large vehicles like boats on trailers or RVs on your property so as to be visible to the public. These sorts of restrictions have in large part been the result of strong enough public sentiment that some things previously lawfully done by private parties on their own land were unseemly or unattractive.

The point is not whether these sorts of restrictions are right. The point is that they do exist. And the fact of their existence illustrates that if enough voters find some form of otherwise lawful conduct in public to be obnoxious, politicians will be only too happy to pass laws against it.

It has happened in California in the case of the law prohibiting open carry of a loaded gun. And it came within one voting of happening to unloaded open carry as well.
 
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