on common politeness

The internet is a lot like those Kung-fu C B raido users. They all got them big talking I'm 6.6 and built like a NFL linemen attitude. Yes'am and yes'sir and thank you are loss on most these days. Common politeness, please.

I do like to buy top brand guns when I can, but I do have a few off brand that run just fine. I know what it's like to want a new S&W revolver that cost $750 or a Ruger that cost $550 or a Rossi that cost $350. Some times it's about the money and not the brand.
 
Okiecruffler: I too didn't know what junk my Tauri were until I read some of these threads. I have learned a lot from these guys constantly bashing Taurus. I traded off my PT92 for something more useless. Big mistake. Now I am trying to find a good 9mm to replace that I can afford and not one of those plastic things. If I wanted a plastic gun I would buy a water pistol. What I have learned is that when people start bashing I should quit listening. My opinions are as good as theirs or better because they are MY opinions. Rant over.
 
Growing up on the farm in the 1950s, neighbor kids would say their Allis Chalmers or their IH's or Minny Molines, Masseys or Case tractors were better than our John Deeres, etc. and back & forth. Same with sports teams, I guess. As for guns, I'm so new to the hobby/sport that I won't pose as an expert except to say I am extremely happy with my Ruger, which I bought very slightly used, and my Taurus, which I bought new. Both fun to play with and good to look at. (Also describes my wife.) But it's also fun to argue and, generally speaking, more money (usually) means better build quality/service. (Just don't tell that to Toyota/Honda/Nissan in the 1970s.)
 
Regardless of how good a said products is, my local gun shop dropped their entire Taurus line due to bad customer service. That has nothing to do with internet bashing or fanboys. They even list it on their website under FAQ's. I never shot a Taurus but I did handle an older Taurus snub and I was very surprised by how good the trigger was on it. Bluing seemed pretty decent too.
 
KMAX, it's not just your opinion, it's your experience with the brand. It took me a few years but I've finally learned to go more with my experience than the opinions of faceless internet posters. Not to say that there aren't a few (very few) internet voices I respect, but still I take my own experiences and the experiences of those I've actually broken bread with, a little more seriously.
 
Interesting,
If all goes well, I plan to take a brand new Taurus 44. Spl, a New to me Ruger Redhawk .44 mag., and a one trip to the range Charter Arms 44 Spl Bulldog out to the range tomorrow (of course it'll be in the afternoon. I'm retired! You poor guys who have to go to work, get yer butts out of bed at 5 a.m. I'll still be dreaming of Sophia Loren.):D
Before anyone says anything, I am taking these tomorrow, the Sigs, S&Ws and Baretta's stay in the safe.
I have not found the best accuracy with the Charter Arms .44. But, I'll work out a load for the little guy, because day-um, I just like the feel of this thing in my hand. The Taurus was an impulse buy. I was curious to see how it compared to the Charter. They are certainly two very different guns. I plan on shooting the same loads from each and allow the target to thell the tale. As for the Redhawk, I had to advise the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and several seismologists before I touch off the rounds I have built up for this beauty...the loads come from that part of the page that notes: Ruger ONLY.
Just a warning, if you feel the earth tremble tomorrow afternoon, about 1:30 EDST, it's just me and my handloads in a Ruger Magnum.
Day-am, I love this country!:D
 
I got a Taurus 94, a lot of people hate them, horror stories going to the factory for (heavy trigger pulls) locking up etc... I never had a problem with mine, I am in fact about to buy ANOTHER Taurus product, maybe a 990.
 
some do not have seem to have caught the whole theme of my post.

if one company say ruger, sw, colt, dan wesson, freedom arms can make a product with a minor flaw such as a slight wiggle during full lockup and people will say "oh it happens, its normal, and its not going to hurt the gun" but when charter or taurus or rossie sell a gun with the same minor issue, its "sign of serious flaw wit gun, product line, company so toss it out"


or better yet, to put the correct spin on it.

any gunsmith will tell you that a revovler with a hammer mounted firing pin can over time have the firing pin break off due to NORMAL wear and tear of using the gun and that you "need to get over it and simply have a few spare firing pins in the gun box".
But when a rossie or taurus or even a charter with a hammer mounted firing pin break off, its "you moron, whyd you buy such an inferior piece of crap like that?"
 
If I wanted a plastic gun I would buy a water pistol. What I have learned is that when people start bashing I should quit listening.
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As the proud owner of a "plastic" pistol this statement hurts my feelings.:p I do think it illustrates beautifully that bashing is in the eye of the beholder.

This is a discussion forum. People give their opinions, most of the time in a civil way. The ones with an ax to grind or who have some other agenda are pretty easy to spot. Take what you can use and leave the rest is my advice, worth exactly what you paid for it...
 
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Don't look at me, I got two Taurus revolvers and I love 'em. One's a 38 Ultralight and the other's a Blued steel 9mm CIA with full moon clips.
 
-common.

-politeness.

You have to look for that now.

But it's out there,in guns as well as on the street.

You just have to let the people with an agenda that tells you right away they have nothing to say-say nothing and go on to people that have something to say.

As far as it hurting the gun makers,I don't think it does.

Because on this forum as well as most other gun forums,when that gun maker steps up and helps the gun owner,it's recognized and appreciated.
 
if one company say ruger, sw, colt, dan wesson, freedom arms can make a product with a minor flaw such as a slight wiggle during full lockup and people will say "oh it happens, its normal, and its not going to hurt the gun" but when charter or taurus or rossie sell a gun with the same minor issue, its "sign of serious flaw wit gun, product line, company so toss it out"
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You are precisely correct that we shouldn't assess the quality of an entire company based on a single incident.

It's also true that if something is a minor issue with one brand it should be similarly evaluated as a minor issue if it happens with another brand assuming that there's not a design difference that would support a different assessment. An example of that would be--a loose ejection rod that can't be tightened on a Taurus or S&W revolver is a serious issue. On a typical Ruger DA revolver that's completely normal behavior.

What we have to be careful about is that when there's a pattern or trend of serious problems or, conversely of generally excellent quality, then it DOES make sense to evaluate particular incidents in light of that pattern or trend rather than pretending that the particular incident in question provides ALL the information that is available on the topic.
...it's not just your opinion, it's your experience with the brand.
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Personal experience is one useful data point, however it's important to understand that personal experience, of necessity involves "eating the rotten egg to find out it's rotten". The point of these forums is to share information. To learn from the experience of OTHERS so that one doesn't have to learn everything by experience.

The actual utility of the process is destroyed if people automatically discount anything that they don't want to hear.

That's not to say we should swallow things whole without even chewing--it takes a balance and it takes being able to carefully evaluate what you read to see if it's reasonably consistent with what you see being said elsewhere.
 
We hurt the gun community as a whole when we bash brands. Why? An example, person comes on a forum and says I have $350.00 to spend max on a brand new gun. What should I get? He will get two recommendations from the group:

1. You should save up more money until you can buy brand X.
2. You should look into buying a used gun.

The problem with answer number 1 is that perhaps that is all the money that the person has available. They cannot save anymore perhaps it was a gift or a one time windfall that they can take advantage of. They need to know what they can get for that ammount that they have quoted, not what they can get for that ammount plus $300.00 more.

The problem with answer number two is while buying a used gun is a great idea it can also be fraught with peril. If your not experienced in buying used guns or knowing what to look for or having access to someone who is then you could indeed wind up with a lemon orchard.
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These are certainly valid points. But I will say a lot of the time those two recommendations are indeed valid.

Oftentimes people only "want" to spend a certain amount. I've done it myself. Buy something on a budget and then later you shoot something higher end and realize it's worth the money and wish you would have saved for the latter. In those cases, you wish you would have listened to recommendation #1.

Same goes with recommendation #2. There is a really good sticky in the revolver forum about how to check out a used revolver. Often buying used to save some money is very good advice. I'm sure I'm regarded as a "brand snob" but I've tried Taurus and Rossi and they've failed me. I would have loved to have gotten the "buy quality used" advice, and I give it often. It's based on experience, nothing else. It isn't always brand bashing, that's all I'm saying.
 
You know I think that TFL should start another General Forum called BASHING.
This is not for people to BASH guns,,, NO.
This is for people to complain about bashing.
I get tired of all the threads that say little other than “I HATE BASHERS”
If your happy with your gun, no matter what the type or manufacture, good for you. But don’t expect everyone to agree with your decision and don’t complain when people give negative comments.
You need to quit calling people names “basher” and get out and do more shooting.
If I was a staff member here at TFL I would outlaw the word “Basher” or “Bashing”
 
Most of the rather expensive guns I've boughten , are the one's that have had problems. The mid or lower range ones all shot perfectly. Pay more for less, I guess.
 
Depends on what the extra money was supposed to buy.

A couple of my more expensive guns have been more finicky, but they are guns that were tuned for competition. They are tightly fitted, and shoot tight, but therefore they don't have the tolerances of a carry gun.

A tuned, tight gun that has also been hand polished to high reliability goes past simply "expensive," and gets into used motorcycle prices.

OTOH, if I pay extra for what should be enhanced reliability, I'd be pretty ticked off at feed and other issues.

When it comes to a carry gun, though, reliability should be criteria 1. Same for an HD gun. For plinking or target shooting, reliability may not be the overriding factor.
 
I am TOTALLY AGAINST brand bashing. I am TOTALLY AGAINST airing dirty laundry regarding a single, non-recurring issue. I am TOTALLY AGAINST having dog piles on top of a complaint.


Toyota lost maybe half a billion dollars over the course of a few years regarding design flaws, and while some of the complaints were valid, and were addressed and fixed, a large number of those complaints were proven by the company to be OUTRIGHT LIES.

Have the many people who filed false reports, such as the guy who ran his prius down the highway at 100 mph been sued for damages? No, they haven't been.

Toyota shareholders took the entire beating because the liars caused further snowballing of legitimate concerns. hundreds of thousands of people lost money because of people who lied to the press, and because the press did what it does best. They grabbed a stick, yanked open the dooor to the outhouse, and stirred the turds until the stink could be smelled from anywhere on the planet.

Design flaws will exist, process flaws will exist, material, manufacturing, and even sales and customer service problems will exist. It is to be expected. When something goes wrong, IMO, it is the duty of any consumer to just go through the normal process of redress, and unless there is a serious, systematic problem, it doesn't need to be flung into the public forum.

I once read a deeply involved and rabidly written letter of complaint about a ruger O/U shotgun; the owner had determined that the thing was regulated badly. The lower barrel shot a few inches to the left. He had sent it back several times, and was furious that it still shot off to the left. he was really tired of having to hold 6-8 inches to the left.

How does one take a stackbarrel shotgun with no sights, fire a round of whatever brand ammo, and determine that the absolute dead center of the two resulting groups are 8 inches apart at bird hunting distances?

You cannot regulate two barrels to hit the same point of impact with any more than a few selected loads. a $100K Heym or H&H will be regulated, and you can't even shoot different loads. Regulation of double rifles is actually considered to be within acceptable limits if you have less than a 6" gap or so at 50-100 yards, I understand.

But, the magazine gave this moron a mouthpiece. the editor of the magazine even dogpiled, lambasting Ruger for selling a defective product and for refusing to make it shoot right for the guy. He should have done the responsible thing, which would have been to tell the guy that he was out of line with his expectations.

We all demand that suppliers of consumer products bend over and kiss our butts, and when it doesn't happen, the gloves come off, and the unhappy consumer comes out swinging and shrieking like a baboon with his testes in a rat trap.
 
I think its just cuz rossi and taurus have had more problems with guns then say ruger and colt although theyve had theirs too..just less...taurus is actually steppin up their game lately with quality weapons.

i always hear sig fans bash glock and vice versa but to me im a fan of firearms in general. get what you want when you want, take it out and shoot a few hundred rounds with it and if it works great keep it! who cares if it has rossi engraved into it. colt fans are just mad that they spent 800$ more for something that shoots the same round.

now im talking straight performance. if you want craftsmanship thats a diff story. go with wilson combat!
 
Newton24b: any gunsmith will tell you that a revovler with a hammer mounted firing pin can over time have the firing pin break off due to NORMAL wear and tear of using the gun and that you "need to get over it and simply have a few spare firing pins in the gun box".
But when a rossie or taurus or even a charter with a hammer mounted firing pin break off, its "you moron, whyd you buy such an inferior piece of crap like that?"
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The very first handgun I bought was a Taurus 851 38 Spl Blue steel, and I never found anything wrong with it. I now own two S&W handguns, one a 38 Spl Airweight and the other a S&W 625-5 long colt 45. But my primary handgun I always prefer is Charter Arms Bulldog 44 Spl. I realize it may not have all the bells and whistles of the S&W but nobody seems to make a 44 Spl Revolver in its size, so I am comfortable carrying it as my primary handgun regardless of others who criticise the CA brand. And I look at it too
that I did not spend a great deal of money if used in S/D, and if it is taken.
I don't buy spare firing pins for it. Do you keep extra firing pins for your guns? Just curious. :D
 
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