Old timer, against carrying one in the chamber...

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Well, dont feel TOO bad. My dad is completely against CCW and thinks that those who do are "looking for trouble"

He keeps a handgun for home defense - loaded mag separate from the gun (condition 4) in the closet, safety on (its a DA/SA and the safety serves as a decocker) and a trigger lock. They have no kids in the house. The gun is a single stack .380 because he doesnt want to kill the person, just make them leave. He keeps it loaded with WWB FMJ ammo and maybe shoots it once a year. He will not keep another loaded mag with the gun (I've bought him 2 extras, various JHPs, and a holster that covers the trigger),has no idea how to clear a malfunction, and refuses to learn.


Needless to say, we have had some arguments.
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Yikes.

I've met a couple of people like this. My advice in these situations is to either make the gun more accessible/useable or ditch the gun and go with a baseball bat or some other blunt object.

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but I load 5besides my smithy .38 is 80 yrs old
You, of course, can do as you please but your eighty year old Smith & Wesson revolver is just as safe loaded with six rounds as it is five. If you're keeping your revolver loaded for self-defense purposes, why would you needlessly give up 20% of its capacity.
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A pre-war long action S&W does not have a positive hammer block system like most post war models do. Though the rebound slide does raise the hammer and firing pin out of the way, a strong enough blow to the hammer can result in an unintended discharge.

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If you want the nothing in the chamber feeling of safety, get revolver and carry 5.
It'll just be a "feeling" of course, because, as has already been pointed out, a modern da revolver or a sa revolver equipped with a transfer safety bar is just as safe loaded with six rounds as it is five.
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This is correct, but for those that still aren't comfortable with a chambered round, even with such safety features in place, are probably best served with a double action revolver because all it takes is a pull of the trigger to rotate a round into place and fire it.
 
Constantine,

Does your father refuse to use seat belts too?

I assume he waits to put a seat belt on until he feels the imminent necessity of impending doom!
 
The AGRA video made me think of the Kahr PM9 /CM9. Kahr recomends that you only chamber a round by locking the slide back and using the slide realease lever.

I guess if the Agra store owner had a Kahr he'd keep the chamber empty and the slide locked back?
 
The irony of that, C0untZer0, is that my particular PM9 does not like to load via the slide release. If I use the slide release, I have to give the base of the magazine a fairly good slap.

Probably something I should get addressed by a smith, but since it works every time I do it, I haven't worried about it.
 
Why carry chamber loaded?

Because the bad guy is not going to stand there and wait while you prepare yourself to fight for your life. That person has every reason in the world not to make it a fair fight- their own survival being number one. Enough said.
 
I'm an old timer, and I prefer to be MORE dangerous in my old age. I'm grumpier, I practice more, I have less to lose, I feel no guilt, and I carry one in the chamber. :D
 
You could start by calling him Dad instead of "my old man"...it's a respect thing...and goes a long way hereabouts...Rod
 
Does your father refuse to use seat belts too?
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Not sure bout his Dad, but I dont strap myself into a car or truck cause someone thinks I need to. Its a I know what to do for myself thing. And no wrecks since I been driving like 1967 or so.

Carry a 1911 cocked and locked safety on. Just bought a new colt new agent, its a shooter.
 
rodfac, "my old man" may be a term of endearment between Constantine and his father.

My sister still calls me "Geekoid," and I still call her "KB," which is short for "Kitty-Bitch." It's a joke going back to the 80's. Badmouth me in front of her, or her in front of me, and watch out...
 
rodfac said:
You could start by calling him Dad instead of "my old man"...it's a respect thing...and goes a long way hereabouts...Rod
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Hey, I'm sure Dr.Phil has a forum here somewhere you can give sappy advice to. I asked about him being convinced to carry one in the pipe not to get in touch with his inner child.

What was YOUR point of commenting really? If I even called him "jerk off" what's it to you? What is it of your business?


I'm in Miami, Latinos here call their parents "viejo y vieja" to US that's respect. "señor y señora" even.


Don't know why your comment got under my skin ever so slightly. Or maybe I just wanted to give a very clear and thorough response with an explanation. Since you went off topic on a lame stab at "ethics" and so called "respect".

Who are you to tell people what to say to their own family? Had that happened in front of then you'd be getting it from all angles.






ANYWAYS...aside from the pointless comment above, my father still want to carry his way. Nothing anyone can do about it apparently. My uncle is the same way and he's ex-military.
 
I find the whole concept of children giving their parents firearms advice to be very humorous. My father did tell me a couple of things about guns. I never told him anything. He showed me that if you pushed the slide back on an automatic, it couldn't be fired, and that if you grabbed a revolver's cylinder so it couldn't turn, it could be fired either. However, he had very powerful hands and I expect he was faster than I was. He also said not to wear gloves too much. They make your hands soft.

Personally, I don't think there is much wrong with carrying an automatic with an empty chamber but I have to qualify that. With some automatics it is easy to chamber a round; a Glock is one of them (possibly the easiest), a Colt Government Model is another. Other automatics it is going on impossible to chamber a round if you're in the least bit of a hurry. I think too many people are just assuming away the safety issue, too. Once you've had an unintentional or accidental firearm discharge, you begin to see things a little differently, same as after you've experienced a car accident. I know guns don't go off by themselves but my cars have been in more accidents than I have. Anyway, if your object in carrying a handgun is to prevent being injured, then obviously safety is your first concern. Having an accident cancels out any reason to have it in the first place, although it isn't necessarily that simple. Apparently some people here live in places where gangs roam the street and there's all those feral cats to deal with.

Much advice, presumably including my own, is contradictory. We are told to carry with a round chambered, and if you're smart, cocked and locked, yet when push comes to shoot, to use both hands because otherwise you can't hit anything. No one mentions what you should do if it happens to be your gun hand that is engaged doing something else when you are called upon to make that .60 second draw but perhaps that's covered elsewhere. I suppose it is possible to get your gun out with your spare hand at times like that but seeing as how I am being converted to a thumb snap-style holster, I'm having some trouble doing that, especially in less than a second and from under concealment, which by the way, I can't even do one handed in the first place.

But maybe you can conceal things better than I can.
 
I think he is a smart old man. Sure modern safties won't allow for an accidental shooting, when they are functioning properly(which is almost always) If I was expecting a fire fight(I would high tail it out of there) and could not run or had to face the situation, then I would 'lock and load', otherwise NO WAY! Modern safties sound great, but I would rather put my faith in physics then mechanics. An empty chamber won't accidently discharge. I use a revolver for sd anyway, It is just a matter of losing the potential of one shot. If 5 ain't enough, then I am way over my head anyway. Just an opinion. If I did use a semi-auto and it wasn't a Walther; I might have to put a little more faith in that saftety:cool:
 
mnero, again, how good are you at locking and loading if you only have one free hand? (You could have been grabbed - although the jujitsu is helpful there, or you could have been ambushed and have one arm already injured.)

Also, have you seen the video that was linked earlier in the thread? That shopkeeper apparently thought he could chamber a round while under attack. Turned out to be fatally incorrect.
 
I suspect that if someone was to grab me to keep me from doing something, chances are it would be the one I want to use the most. However, at this point we digress into the physical aspects of an unpleasant encounter.

Don't get me wrong. I am not advocating against a chamber loaded carry, nor revolvers over automatics. As a matter of fact, I've never had an unintentional or accidental discharge with an automatic--but with a revolver, yes. So much for the inherent safety of a revolver over an automatic and I suspect that a single action is even less safe. What I am saying is that the disadvantages of a chamber empty carry (with my stated qualifications) is exaggerated. In fact, it even has some advantages, or I wouldn't have even mentioned it.
 
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