Old timer, against carrying one in the chamber...

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Tactical Jackalope

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Yes....My old man has a shop in Florida. Very bad neighborhood high crime rate. Works till late. Midnight and such. I've armed him. Traded my Hk USP .40 and bought him a 9mm of his choice for his Browning High-Power that I now have. He didn't like it anymore..he likes 9mm, it's his favorite caliber. He chose a SCCY CPX-1 which he loves...He's shot it enough and loves it. I'd rather he carry the Hk...But you can't always get what you want.

Anyways, he carries at 3:30 IWB...Magtech hollow points. All we can get for it now. Don't know if that thing can handle my 124gr +p golden sabers.

So main point...He does not want to carry one in the pipe. He's experienced some madness but he's set on not leaving one in the pipe. We called SCCY a little while ago to send the kit to eliminate the safety, because the recoil would make it flip up again. It's a common thing with the CPX-1...So the safety is eliminated. But even before that he wouldn't.




How can I teach and tell my old man to keep one chambered at all times? He's rough around the edges and a little stubborn. Plus, I don't think he likes me telling him to carry the Hk instead. When I tell him to chamber..He seems annoyed at me.



Any ideas on how to break it to him somehow?
 
Quick answer, go on YouTube and find a few videos on how fast a gun fight in a store happens, then ask him politely "can you draw and chamber that fast Dad?"

Good luck
and
God Bless he never has to find out.
 
Has he learned a reliable method for chambering a round using only one hand?

If not, remind him that in the event of a confrontation, he may have one arm tied up in fending off an assailant, or he might have an arm injured and out of commission.

If both hands are free, and if he has practiced the technique a fair amount, Israeli carry/draw method isn't hard. It's when one hand is tied up, or if the Israeli draw method isn't trained to become reflexive, that things become problematic with an empty chamber.

There are different methods for chambering one-handed, but none of the ones I know should be practiced with live ammo (rear sights against belt, boot heel, or right angled corner of table or floor etc; or slide clamped between knees) as these all have inherent possibility to let off a round somewhere undesirable. They also take a bit of practice to do well. And, even done properly, they will cost some amount of time.

So, in such a scenario, having one in the chamber is most likely the safer option.
 
egor20, as long as both hands are free, chambering on the draw takes next to no time.

It's when both hands are not free that it really gets to be... fun.
 
First time I've heard of a SCCY CPX-1.

Anyway, the man is going to do what he wants. Tell him what you do and why and then quit messing with him. He will either take your advice or not.

tipoc
 
Do you have any mutual LEO friends or acquaintances ? Hearing it from someone else, with some authority as an expert, might be more acceptable. I'm an 'old man' myself and sometimes old men can be stubborn. Another alternative might be a book by Jeff Cooper or Mas Ayoob on tactics. Good luck and lets hope he never needs it.
 
Ya know, I used to think that way...until someone mentioned that (for models that don't fully load the striker) it's no different than carrying a revolver...So according to SCCY's website...

"• Hammer firing system: double action only, internal hammer with inertial firing pin to prevent accidental discharge if dropped."

I could be wrong but the above is no different than pulling the trigger on a revolver.
 
Condition One. I'm a believer...

One upon a time, I believed the statement "only a madman carries a gun in Condition One." I also figured if it was good enough for Israeli soldiers, it was good enough for me.

After decades of shooting and reading this and other forums, I have
reconsidered all of this.

I think that in a stressful situation, it's all too likely to short stroke the
slide and wind up with a failure to feed. (Game over).

Now, it's always Condition 1.
I pick a holster that protects the trigger.
I keep my finger off of the trigger until ready to fire.
I also have learned that you need to exercise caution when you re-holster the gun.

BTW, what's up with the Magtech hollow points?
The general consensus seems to be only use American made ammo.
 
Aside from what has already been said, you should be able to find a video that explains the 21 foot distance for drawing and firing. That's an eye opener if the person is open minded at all.

Another option might be to run some drills with him so there is just a little stress. That little bit of stress will make you forget all sorts of things. You forget to swipe the safety off, chamber a round or maybe short stroke and cause a jam. General rule as I've always heard is that you should be able to draw and fire 2 accurate shots in under 2 seconds.

Also run some drills for drawing from concealment. If he hasn't done that already, that might convince him that condition 3 can be a major problem. Maybe explain that statistically most attacks come from our flanks and rear, so reaction time is minimal at best. Just throwing out ideas, so I'm sure there are plenty more things you could do to convince him.

My father does the same thing with his 1911 and it drives me nuts. Not only does he carry condition 3, he often carries it in a day planner/holster thing that you have to unzip to get to the gun. No amount of argument has yet to convince him that his carry tactics are rather foolish IMO.
 
Since no law enforcement agency that I am aware of carries with an empty chamber, I'd ask him if he felt safe carrying as the LEO's do. Then I'd go about proving that every law enforcement agency carries with a round chambered.

Either that or buy him a revolver.

Biker
 
A semi-auto with a long pull on the first round will solve the problem. I only carry revolvers, but if I did carry a semi-auto, it would be a walther pk. I too am old and just won't keep a round chambered; maybe that is why I like revolvers and rifles that are lever or bolt action.
 
In addition to all the fine TACTICAL reasons already stated, the simple fact is virtually every modern handgun is every bit as safe with a chambered round as with no round chambered (and a LOT "safer" from the standpoint of defensive protection), due to manual safeties, disconnects, and so forth. Excellent -- but generations aged -- revolvers were able to inadvertently discharge a round if the firearm was dropped directly on the hammer with sufficient force that the firing-pin ignited the primer. HOWEVER, those designs were terminated many years ago.
 
I'm with the DA auto (NOT DAO) guys.

But, he still might not like it. Once a guy knows how to urinate standing up the precise way in which he does it is up to him. To attempt to offer guidance where its not asked for is a presumption. IMHO
 
Maybe you should ask your father to come take a look at the posts here in this thread. He may be convinced by these and others.

He may also wonder why you are taking his personal business global and beat you like some of the dead horses beaten on the various threads here.

He may do both or neither. Anyways, show him this thread and see what he thinks.

tipoc
 
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