Old can of 2400

I think that's the prudent way of approaching it.

Could you use the powder and PROBABLY not run into any problems?

Probably.

But the best way of doing it would be to get data from the 1950s, an Ideal or Speer manual.
 
I've used both powder & primers from before WW 2.

If it smells like ether, and has a zip code on the address, I'd use it.
 
I agree with Mike, that can is most definitely from the 50s or even older.
I guess some of us are showing our age.
 
I am still finishing off some old powders from the 80's in exterior rusted cans. No problems or detectable ill effects. Had a can of 296 where the lid was almost rusted through but powder inside was fine.

Lots of speculation but I'm just curious if anyone has first hand knowledge of what happens when a powder has degraded from age and environment. My thoughts were worst case scenario is that it performs miserably, but poses no danger unless you are foolish enough to fire a round into a previous squib. Does anybody have actual experience with powder that failed?
 
It's something of a wildcard as to what can happen when a powder begins to degrade.

Some powders may simply lose potency and result in squibs.

Other powders can show serious pressure spikes because their burning rate goes off the charts.
 
Modern single base smokeless powder is made using nitrocellulose (aka guncotton). Double base powders use nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin. Along with a few other chemicals.

Nitric acid is a major component, and when powder degrades it gives off nitric fumes. Any kind of reddish/brown powder (dust), corrosion on the inside of the can, lack of the usual smell, etc. are warning signs.

ANY and ALL chemical compounds that show signs of degradation are suspect, and potentially dangerous! Degradation means they are no longer stable, and not in the condition to do their job as manufactured.

MOST chemical compounds become weaker, and eventually inert as they degrade. BUT, not ALL do. Some become increasingly more hazardous and some can even become explosive, all on their own (see explosive peroxides).

Mike said it pretty well.

Also, just FYI if you come across a bottle, can, etc of any old chemical, be it a household cleaning solution or an industrial chemical, if it is forming crystals around the lid (not old spilled material, but crystalline growth), use extreme caution, as you have a potential bomb. Sometimes these are totally inert. but sometimes, they are hyper shock sensitive. And the ones that are can also spontaneously detonate, just sitting on the shelf, with no outside action as a cause. Degraded chemicals can turn into absolutely anything! Because the vast majority simply get weaker or go fully inert doesn't mean the one you are looking at has, or will.

I spent quite a few years doing chemical management, hazardous material handling, and industrial hygienist type work, including handling special nuclear material, and while I don't have a paper to hang on my wall (or not one that means anything:rolleyes:) I do know what I am talking about in this instance.

Good Luck, be safe!
 
Years back we were hiking in a valley South of here (my step dad, mom and 3 brothers). The 3 of us were ranging ahead, came across a small shed.

I don't remember if the door was open or not locked but we opened it, damn, this think is chuck full of dynamite (says so right on the cartons!)

Upshot one of us yells back we found dynamite and my very calm step dad tells us to stop, careful back away, do not shut the door, walk down the hill. Hmm, rambunctious or not, we knew what that tone meant from my Dad and my step dad was the same. He had work with his father who was a miner and knew all the ins and outs of dynamite. We had seen it used but only as spectators kept at a distance.

He then went up and looked in, backed out and we got the run down on how freezing and thawing works the nitroglycerine out of the core of the stick which is just a holding mechanisms for said nitro. One little thump and 3 kids would have been scatter in pieces all over that hillside (we have all seen those movies!)

Amazing to find it in a common hiking area but there was lots of small miners and one died or went bust.

It got reported to the authorities who went in with a bomb squad from the Military (police in those days did not have that capability) and they blew it up on the spot. No way you can safely handle stuff like that.
 
Mike Irwin in post 27, how can old powder maybe 20-40 years old are whatever have pressure spikes that go through the roof ?
had to laugh when I read that one. hahaha Yea you can hear alot of stuff like that in LGS's that make you laugh. :D
 
Yes Buck, you can hear lots of BS in the gun shop, but once in a while, what sounds like BS is actually true.

When a complex chemical compound becomes unstable, virtually anything can result. 99%+ it follows the common path, but there are rare instances where it does something opposite the usual path.

In the case of a powder getting more powerful as it decays, I'd bet good money against it, in any specific case, but I wouldn't bet a penny that it could never happen.

Consider the unlikely case of a very slow powder deteriorating in such a manner that the retardant chemicals failed to slow the burn rate at all, so that it detonated or acted like a very fast powder when fired. A case full of something that acts like Bullseye, when you don't expect it, would be a very unpleasant surpise indeed.
 
I've got a box of 30-30 ammo from the 60s. I was scared to shoot it thinking I might have a squib now after reading this I'm scared thinking it might blow my barrel off my gun ! :eek:
Hahaha. Ok, like the other stories, I believe ya ;)
 
Seems like if powder was degading, it could change the burn rate to a slower burn and cause a pressure spike. If the burn was inconsistent and caused a slower burn, couldn't the pressure build differently?
 
Seems like, is a very poor way to decide whether a powder is good or not and what may/could happen if used.:p
 
If you had come across a cache of old Hercules 2400 of the size of... say... 30 pounds? Like a load of powder that would make a genuine difference in the economy of your operation, it seems like it would make sense to investigate whether or not the powder will perform as hoped, so that you could make use of the windfall of cheap or free powder.

Here, we're talking about a single one-pound can. At even a horrificly over-priced small town gun store, you're talking about like twenty six bucks worth of powder. A bit more depending on sales tax.

Of course, I buy my powders eight pounds at a time (except for Power Pistol, dangit!) so I'm spending like $16 to $18 a pound on powder.

Given what I spend just on my projectiles...
And without even mentioning the amount of money I have invested in the firearms I use to launch all these handloads...

...it just seems silly to go to -any- great lengths to salvage a relic like the one being discussed in this thread.

I'd display the very cool, old, period can.
 
Old H4895 in carboard

I have some old H4895 that was probably bought 40-50 years ago---who knows. My wife's Grampa was the original owner and he passed away 17 years ago. In searching this forum and the internet there were only a couple of opinions that the powder might be dangerous. Most of the info suggested that if the powder was going bad it would become less potent, meaning it would not produce the original energy. The interior of the metal cap was getting a bit corroded, and the powder is odorless. The color was perfect, and no brown dusting or anything like that.

Long story short, I have an old load data book and that data is the same as current load data for H4895 for 22-250. So I crossed my fingers and loaded some .204 Ruger rounds with beginning charges and went to the range. They worked! Went bang every time. Velocity was a bit slower than anticipated, but it worked. Given the powder shortage over the last 12 months this was a welcome gift from Grampa. I worked up a good load for .204 Ruger and shot quite a bit of that powder.

You could try the same process, and I doubt seriously you will be disappointed. But that is just my OPINION and nothing more. I did wear safety glasses and heavy leather gloves when I shot the first few rounds with that old powder, so it was a bit anxiety provoking. :D
 
Old 2400 Powder

Graphite is used to make powder safe to handle. It keeps friction down as well as static electricity. If the powder still has a good coating of graphite, it is ok to use. It may have lost a little punch but still will work. Powder keeps extremely well for long periods of time, like 50+ years or more, if kept dry and the graphite coating is still good but if the graphite is spotty on the grains or missing all together or there is dust instead of grains, I would do as suggested above and use it as fertilizer. Be safe starting out with low end loads.
 
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