OK, what dog breed meets all these criteria for both hunter and pet?

OK, get ready to laugh

Once upon a time, long, long ago, I used to breed, train and hunt standard poodles. I learned of the dog's versality while on station in France. I used them as water dogs, pointers, and hounds. My stud, Cyrano, was 95 lbs of coyote killing hound. He loved to sleep on the floor beside my daughter's play pen, with her pulling on his ears.

I remember being awakened one morning by my host in Verdun, and going into the kitchen to see his standard poodle on guard in the middle of the floor, There was an intruder cowering in the corner, under the watchful eye of the guard dog. We had hunted with that dog the day before.

Although the Poodle has been known throughout Western Europe for at least 400 years, its origin is controversial. Whether it was developed in France, Germany, Denmark, or the ancient Piedmont, is uncertain. Despite the claims of several other countries, France has now been officially recognized as its country of origin, and the breed occupies a special place on the affections of the French. It is certain that the Poodle is descended from a now nearly extinct French water dog, the Barbet and possibly the Hungarian Water Hound. The name "Poodle" probably derives from the German word "Pudel," which means one who plays in water. The Poodle was used as a gun dog. Originally the breed was used in Germany and France as a retriever of waterfowl. Hunters clipped the dog's thick coat to help him swim, leaving hair on the leg joints to protect them from extreme cold and sharp reeds. The French capitalized on the breeds high intelligence, trainability and innate showmanship and made the Poodle into a circus performer. His great popularity in that country led to the breeds common name "French Poodle." In France, however, the Poodle is called the "Caniche," or duck dog
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http://www.vipoodle.org/WPindex.htm
http://www.rescueeverydog.org/poodle_breed.html
http://www.versatiledogs.com/breeds/poodle.html

Pops
 
You know, Ive wanted a catahoula for a while now. I dont currently live where I can have one though, so I think it will just be added to the list.
 
Rich, it breaks my heart to hear that the Aussie breed has been ruined-- it was once one of (if not the) single most useful and intelligent breeds ever, IMHO. Brave, quick, excellent instincts, and wonderfully emotive. For about 9 months I owned an Australian Shepard/doberman mix that was possibly the smartest dog I ever knew, utterly untrained. (His former owner, who had given him to me, came back for him. I couldn't blame him, and let him have it back.)
 
Matt-
I'm certain there are still good working stock Aussies if you head out to cattle country. But, once they became "recognized" as a purebreed and AKC got their hands on 'em, they became an overnight sensation. Now everybody just has to have one.

Puppy Mills: The rate of deafness, blindness and hip dysplasia is just soaring. Catahoula's seem to suffer from the same deficits: there's a Merle gene, which when crossed produces many of these problems.

And, as to all breeds: we no longer "cull" the way we used to. Catahoula breeders in LA were notoriously cold-blooded about this right up until (and in some cases including) today. It's a philosophic argument that I'm glad I don't have to partake....do you kill weak puppies in the interests of preserving the breed?
Rich
 
FF:

Geesh! You sure want a lot for your dime. Dogs are individuals, just like people. So, on an individual basis, many different breeds may potentially have the "perfect dog." If you find one - please let me know. I'd like to be your Hollywood agent.
OK, all kidding aside: If you start trying this or that breed expecting the dog to do this or be that, you are probably going to have a lot of disappointments, as well as a lot of dogs that get taken to the shelter. As a lot of people already know, I'm more of a cat person; but I do have a dog that I am absolutely daffy about. Not because of what he can do, but just because he is who he is. He's a pitbull terrier I rescued from a fighting ring when I was the shelter Vet. I'm not suggesting you get a pitbull (although you could certainly do worse), but I am suggesting that you keep an open mind, and make a few trips to the shelter to look at adult dogs (WYSIWYG).
There's a good chance you'll find a companion there that makes you wonder what you ever did without them.
Good hunting
 
Rich,

Interesting read, thank you. The catahoula sounds like a dog that I would love to have but I don't have the time or the land for him or her to run and play :(.

Pops,

Actually, before people started to "sissyfy" the poodle, it was an extrodinary(sp) hunting dog. Then someone got the bright idea to shave off hair and sissyfy it :barf: . But, all in all a poodle really isn't a bad dog (and I was :mad: when Boortz kept on referring to Kerry as a poodle, the poor dogs don't deserve that type of disrespect! :D (to all the Kerry folks, the :D means I'm joking)).

Wayne
 
Actually, the poodle clip is functional. The big mane on the chest protects from brush, ice and fighting critters. The puffs on the ankles protect where blood runs close to the surface. Smooth on the sides so they don't waterlog so badly on a long day.The puff on the tail is so you can see them point in wheat stubble (they point with tail straight up.) and, the topknot on the head is for the silk bow, so you can convince the SO that the dog is worth the money. :D

Pops
 
My Sister has a giant airdale, 95 t0 105 #. Very protective of the house and yard.
I have seen it on natural point on birds , but it has never had any training.
They were bred as retrievers.
Very friendly to small children.
Need to be clipped about twice a year, no big deal.A little high strung, but with proper training I don't think this would be a problem.
She just uses it a a guard and at this it does an excellent job!
 
Pops:

Actually, the poodle clip is functional. The big mane on the chest protects from brush, ice and fighting critters. The puffs on the ankles protect where blood runs close to the surface. Smooth on the sides so they don't waterlog so badly on a long day.The puff on the tail is so you can see them point in wheat stubble (they point with tail straight up.)
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Wow, you learn something every day :cool: .

Wayne
 
I had forgotten about the standard poodle, the german hunting dog brought by gypies to France because of their trainability/use in shows. They hunt well, one of the smartest dogs, and protect well.
 
Oh yeah, the poodle is very smart and a good hunter, in its original genetic form. It was one of the very FIRST breeds to be popularized and thus ruined (for the most part) by backyard breeders - but it happened a lot longer ago than some other breeds, so not as many recall that poodles ARE workers! (from the right breeding lines).

Yes, I want a lot, but I'm willing to pay a lot of dimes for it. I've had good dogs and so-so dogs, and in truth, my "best" dog right now in terms of personality and predatory instinct is a mutt that I took in off the street (literally). I really despise backyard breeders who breed without regard to health, temperament, and working ability. I think it's ridiculous for breeders to not have OFA certs on hips and eyes in any breed where they're known to be a strong possibility. And I think it's doubly ridiculous to not breed PRINCIPALLY for the working ability for which the breed was originally bred (with the narrow exception of toy dogs, who by definition, have no working ability), and secondly, for health qualities and temperant, and lastly, almost as an afterthought, some semblance to the physical breed standard. And I think it's OUR duty as consumers to hold these breeders to a high standard, and pay a little more - this would weed out most or all of the backyard breeders. If you want something cheap, for a good pet, get a pound dog. If you want a dog that will work, be willing to pay for it, and ostracize breeders who breed solely for confomation qualities. Any breeder can give lip service about how great the health of their dogs are, but if they're not willing to shell out a few buck for the TEST that proves this, and add a small amount to the cost of the dog, then there's a REASON they're not willing to test them - they're probably perpetuating bad genes, for the sake of profit only.
 
First,

That is why I stayed away from any "papered" dogs. Now, I must admit with my post on "Yippy Dogs", the Schipperke has really perked my interest. The lady, in her ad that I found (she's in Oregon) mentioned paying for the test of genetics and such on the parents and I guess will do so on the puppies.

I have looked at some other breeds (the mini dobie was mentioned) and the "curs" seem to be the best ones (that is what a boyhood friend's father said the dog was. It was "cheap" because one of the ears was deformed (me and my friend thought the dog looked cool) and from what I remember, it was the only one that survived from the litter as it grew because all the others had been breed too thin or something and had bad defects (but looked good for show :barf: ).

Oregon is pretty good about shutting down "backyard breeders" and all breeding dogs have to go to the vet to be checked for such defects (genes) and from what I understand, the breeders have to keep a log that must match up to their vets and can only breed so many times and brothers/sisters moms/sons, dads/daughters can't breed.

Good luck in your search.

Wayne
 
I've got a choc lab, 9 years old, 115 Lbs and a great family and hunting dog. As far as home defense goes, he looks very intense and anytime someone new enters out house he will stand rock still until the front door closes. I think he's just waiting to make sure that they can't get away before he licks off 2 layers of skin and makes them pet him. He would probably help you unload the china hutch if you could agree on a daily belly rub. LOL.
All kidding aside, they are great dogs and the transition from the field to the house is transparent.
Mine doesn't know he's a dog and he has absolutely no idea he weighs as much as he does. They just want to make you happy.

My wife has issued the following law in our house.

1. If anything happens to the dog while we are hunting, I can't come home.
 
Thank you Wayne. I'll admit that I do have an interest in one yipper - the Papillon breed has me interested in strictly a small pet dog, for it's personality, ease of care, and interesting looks - can a heterosexual own a toy breed however - is that allowed? :)
 
I have a pure bred ottertail Black Lab I got from a breeder in Iowa, I live in N.H. and when my Grandson asked how she got here, I replyed by Greyhound of course. She is one of the stocky muscular types weighs 100lbs and is pure muscle. This dog is like the energizer rabbit in the field and has been the best of both worlds as far as hunter and pet. Labs can tend to be goofy some times but very loyal, smart and lovable, this dogs nose is like a laser. I never had a lab before and am now will ever have any dog for the field but a lab. I am sure there are other dogs just as good but, but this lab is a real piece of work.
 
Talk about versatile? Here's my "birdog". She tracked it, tree'd it, then retrieved it. That dog was so proud she carried it all the way back to the house to show my wife. That's one happy German Shorthair!
 

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I didn't read all the replies so I don't know if anyone mentioned it yet, but my choice would be and is, Drahthaar.
Great with people, easily trained, hard worker etc etc.

I had 2 until losing one to old age in Jan. Getting another pup this June. She will be ready and hunting at 6 months in Nov. That was the schedule on my last one. Born in May and was pointing and retreiving in Nov.

You'll love them. Check out www.altmoor.com. Scroll down to vom Altmoor Deutsch-Drahthaars in the left hand colum. You'll find history on breed etc.
 
How about a English Springer Spaniel? Not very short-haired, but we keep ours clipped, so its really not a problem. I dont no how easily you can train them to point either, but mine will work pheasants all day long, and retrieve them. Also, theyre great for home protection, but very friendly once they get to know somebody, including children. Just an idea

-Jake
 
I'd say a Boxer is totally out. They will point but they can't get retrieving right. They won't let go and they will crush anything they pick up if you try to take it from them. :(
 
Masshunter....you bring up the point that with breeds like the Springer Spaniel, who, although having longer hair, the hair is THIN enough to clip easily yourself, without a lot of hassle, in sharp contract to breeds with heavy undercoats like my spitz breeds (akita, husky, etc.), who must be bathed & brushed out before a clipper will plow through. Maybe I should widen my choices. Still, less maintenance is better than more maintenance. Man that's one good girl Virgil, bringin ya back a squirrel like that. Good discussion. I know nothing of the Drathaar...will have to investigate them...
 
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