Official NRA critic's thread (NO NRA BASHING DANG IT)

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'I put an open invitation to convince me to join the NRA and all I've gotten so far is:
1. "Join or not, I could care less." '

I guess I'll have to spell it out for you. This is not about you. You clearly are not going to join the NRA. You have been presented with facts about the NRA (you even acknowledged that they are facts) and your response was "So what?" I can only speak for myself, but if you think *I* am going to waste my time trying to convince *you* that the NRA is good enough for you to join it, you have a self-image that borders on delusional.

As you can see from the view/post count for this thread, many more people have read the thread than have posted to it. I want only to make sure that these folks get the right idea about the NRA, and don't go off believing some of the nonsense that has been presented here.

Tim
 
"Hunh? Where in there do you get the idea that I said the money would be used for lobbying or donations?"

Where to begin. In one post, quoted below, you mention the AWB, legislation, 2A, 2008 elections, $50 (dues are $35 BTW), and then say "What has the NRA done to justify the money they have now"

It certainly appears to me that you were asking about politics and what the NRA has done with the money from the dues - you even mentioned a number. Again, dues cannot be used for lobbying, etc. It appears to you need more information before you start drawing conclusions.

"A statement of ignorance from someone who wanted to sling an insult."

I'd say I hit the nail on the head. I guess we'll have to just disagree.

John
Member www.vcdl.org
NRA Endowment Member
_________________

"Why did the '94 AWB EXPIRE instead of being defeated by legislation, that resulted in an affirmation of the 2A? Everybody basically just held their breath and kept their fingers in their ears until it sunsetted. We had a Republican congress and president. Why wasn't this pushed?
Why was it that for ten years I had to endure the questions and accusations whenever I took Glock 18 mags for my G17 to the range?
Why did they saw the muzzle device off of my FAL?
Why can't we get good quality surplus barrels for anything from overseas anymore?

Why is it that I look at the upcoming 2008 elections with a cold dreadful certainty that we will look back upon the time between 2004 and 2008 as the "Good Old Days"?

Fifty Bucks is a small price to pay if it gets me something of value.
What has the NRA done to justify the money they have now, let alone what they want, which is 75 million new members?"
 
Let's see:

TimRB: I am now delusionally self absorbed because I want an honest idea of just what MY dues will go to support. "The NRA" of course... but what does that get the average joe like me? When I contribute to charities (and, I know, the NRA is no charity- this is an example) I demand to know what percentage actually goes towards charitable works, and I won't support those organizations that spend for example, 80% of their money on soliciting more donations.

Yes, the NRA site presents a lot of facts about gun ownership and attempts to dispell myths about gun ownership. NOTHING there is some revelation of secret tomes of gun lore available only to NRA disciples. Yes, guns prevent crime. Yes, guns should be handled safely. Yes, you are not more likely to be murdered just by owning a gun. Yep, know all that already. That's like handing someone an encylopedia and saying, this is why you should go to college.

"Many more have viewed than posted & I'm just trying to give them the right idea about the NRA."
Yeah, sure you are. Why don't you give ME the right idea about the NRA because so far you've said and done nothing.


JohnBT: See the above. What am I getting from the NRA if my membership can't be used in any meaningful way to achieve the agendas that *I* feel are important, like removing gun restrictions to a level the Founding Fathers originally intended?


I'll ask again- ANYBODY: What happened to the NRA that it is no longer as politically feared as the AARP? What has the NRA done over the past ten years that is actively constructive to the 2A, in terms of ending gun restrictions and senseless legislation? Anyone from California want to expound on your wealth of gun rights?

I'll even make this a "wager": I'll bet my first membership fee (Fine, it's $35, that's not even a tank of gas in the truck). Convince me and I'll join with no more questions. I'm not a troll. I'm serious.

If you don't want to at least humor me in this and/or change my mind with something worthwhile- then I'm done with this thread.
 
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"I demand to know what percentage actually goes towards charitable works"

Well why don't you call them and ask and stop the foot stomping and whining.

"NOTHING there is some revelation of secret tomes of gun lore available only to NRA disciples."

Huh? Tomes? Disciples? Are you looking to join a secret society?

"Why don't you give ME the right idea about the NRA because so far you've said and done nothing."

We have, repeatedly. You can lead a horse to water, etc.

"What am I getting from the NRA if my membership can't be used in any meaningful way to achieve the agendas that *I* feel are important, like removing gun restrictions to a level the Founding Fathers originally intended?"

Your dues CAN be used for education and training programs that bring gun owners together and assist new gun owners in getting up to speed on self defense, hunting, target shooting, etc.

"*I*"

The NRA is a group effort, it isn't about "*I*" want this and "*I*" want that.

"What happened to the NRA that it is no longer as politically feared as the AARP?"

And who says that is true? You keep throwing that out like it's a fact. I don't think it is. At all. And it hasn't been true.

"If you don't want to at least humor me in this and/or change my mind with something worthwhile- then I'm done with this thread."

You've been humored. Instead of doing your own research you've made repeated demands, many of them quite rudely, and still we humor you and treat you like an adult.

"A statement of ignorance from someone who wanted to sling an insult."

When I start slinging insults you'll know it. All I've done so far is point out discrepancies in your statements and your faulty assumptions.

John
 
"I'll ask again- ANYBODY: What happened to the NRA that it is no longer as politically feared as the AARP?"

Well, here's one big difference between the NRA and AARP: AARP has over 18 million members (from their 2005 annual report) while the NRA has fewer than 5 million. Imagine what we could get done if the NRA grew by a factor of three. Please join the NRA today:

https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

If you're in California (or even if you're not!) please also consider joining the California Rifle and Pistol Association:

http://www.crpa.org/

Tim
 
You know, a lot of folks join AARP for the group insurance rates and such. My parents belonged for years even though they never signed up for any of the benefits and I've seen a lot of their sales pitches - a number that puts the NRA to shame. :)

On the lighter side, have you ever looked at the AARP site? They have some entertaining stuff. Right now they're running a Community Poll:

Which liquid do you consume the most of each day?

Water 10.0%
Coffee 3.6%
Soda 2.5%
Beer 82.2%
Other 1.7%

I'm thinking about joining. ;)

Johnl
 
Here is another link for a group that hates the NRA:

http://www.bradycampaign.org/

I am not posting this as a joke. Read that site, and you'll see how one of the most gun-hating, NRA-hating groups in America, contradicts much of what is said in the NRAwol site.

Tim
 
Watch this and tell me with a straigth face the NRA is not fighting for gun owners.

http://www.givethemback.com/

I have seen the whole video and it is because of the NRA dragging the city of New Orleans kicking and screaming into court that the confiscations stopped.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by playboypenguin
The one thing I do wish the NRA would do is start being a bipartisan organization.

Chris Cox, executive director of NRA's Institute for Legislative Action stated,

"We will endorse regardless of party,"

The above statement is not true. The NRA doesn't support Libertarian candidates. The Libertarian candidate may be the only pro gun candidate in a race and still the NRA will not endorse him or her.
 
Sure, many of those 50+ million are lazy and selfish, but at some point, an intelligent person will start taking a hard look at nra for possible causes.
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Some of us are poor and can't afford to throw money at groups like the NRA. It may be hard for people like you to believe, but some of us have to spend our money on rent and food.
 
The NRA doesn't support Libertarian candidates. The Libertarian candidate may be the only pro gun candidate in a race and still the NRA will not endorse him or her.
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I love the libertarians but frankly I would be pretty angry with the NRA if they WASTED my contribution on the Libertarian candiadte who has ZERO chance of winning. The NRA are realists, the Libertarians are not. I love their idealism but they are incapable of getting anything done because of their purity.
 
Since only a TINY percentage of gun owners are nra members, obviously something is seriously wrong, either with nra or with 50 + million people who are not members (many of whom are PAST members). Logic dictates that something must be wrong with nra as opposed to the problem being with the 50 million. Sure, many of those 50+ million are lazy and selfish, but at some point, an intelligent person will start taking a hard look at nra for possible causes.
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I think you are projecting your enthusiasm for guns onto others. Based on talking to a lot of people who happen to own guns, I suspect a substantial portion of the 50+ million gun owners have little or no interest in gun rights. As examples:
  • The friend who owns his grandfather's Winchester 94 and asked me what ammo the 94 used and how powerful it was;
  • The friend who happily showed me his father's near-mint Remington-Rand 1911, which he has no idea how to shoot and no inclination to do so;
  • The neighbor who pulled a cocked and unlocked Browning 25 out of his pocket to ask me if it was a reasonable home-defense gun;
  • The neighbor who dug a verdigris-covered Combat Commander out of his pickup and asked me to see whether it was accurate;
  • The widow down the street who asked me to see whether her late husband's guns were safe to move to a storage location; and,
  • The five hunters I know in my neighborhood whose only interest is a rifle or shotgun to use during deer or bird seasons.
Other than some of my coworkers and people at the gun shops I frequent and the range I use, NONE of the "average" gun owners I know are passionate about guns. Ask any of those "average" gun owners about banning "assault weapons" to reduce crime and violence and they would probably think it was a good idea. Registration? Licensing? Good ideas. An outright ban on all firearms and door-to-door confiscations would ruffle some feathers, but they don't even notice the creeping incrementalism of anti-gun efforts and wouldn't care if you told them (I have tried).
 
There's a simple reason why I don't support the NRA.

I can abide by an organization which can't always do what I want it to. Such groups obviously have to prioritize and can't do EVERYTHING that their membership might wish.

But I cannot give support to any organization which does things that I don't want them to do. Even worse when they claim to do such things in my name (as a member of said group) As the NRA often supports bills, laws, etc to which I am extremely opposed..I cannot in good conscience support them.

There IS no compromise between freedom and slavery. There is no compromise between rights and privileges.

And my rights are not anyone else's to compromise away.

I'd rather lose my rights through outright theft (impetus for revolution) than have them compromised away a little at a time by a supposed ally.

Those who compromise with the enemy..are the enemy and guilty of treason. It is so in war..and it is so in this case as well.
 
I love absolutists!
Danzig said:
There IS no compromise between freedom and slavery. There is no compromise between rights and privileges.

And my rights are not anyone else's to compromise away.
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So tell me, you have the inalienable right to travel, where and when you want, yes?

“The right to travel is a part of the “liberty” of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment. So much is conceded by the Solicitor General. In Anglo-Saxon law that right was emerging at least as early as the Magna Carta.” Kent v. Dulles, 357 U.S. 116 (1958).

You cannot freely exercise your liberty to travel if the state can license (tax) your person and register (tax and regulate) your means of transportation. So, when was your right to travel converted to a mere privilege? And what are you doing about it?

Betcha we all have drivers licences and our vehicles are registered, yes?
 
I joined the NRA last Friday when I visited the NRA HQ range. I had bought a nice Stainless 10/22 the night before :) I shot my 10/22 again on Sunday in between skeet rounds with family and called in sick today to go the the NRA range with my new toy :D
 
Love me or don't...but count on me to NEVER compromise away your rights.

Those who aren't absolutists are doing exactly that.
 
Every manual on vehicle driving I've ever read clearly states "Driving is not a right, it is a privilege", or something to that affect.

The privilige of driving a vehicle is not comparible to the 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms.

So we might have the right to travel, but driving is not a right.

I don't see where the NRA's done anything to help people in Chicago, or DC.
 
Panthera Tigris said:
So we might have the right to travel, but driving is not a right.
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The corollary to that is: So we might have the right to self-defense, but owning a gun is not a right. [until such a time as the RKBA is actually termed a right by the SCOTUS, the preceeding is true]

There is absolutely no difference between the two statements: Having a right and being denied the tools to use the right effectively is to deny the right.
 
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