Official NRA critic's thread (NO NRA BASHING DANG IT)

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I'd rather lose my rights through outright theft (impetus for revolution) than have them compromised away a little at a time by a supposed ally.
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Those who compromise with the enemy..are the enemy and guilty of treason. It is so in war..and it is so in this case as well.

At the same time compromise is as American as the COTUS and BOR. Perhaps you noticed the little issue of slavery being ignored at the founding of this nation. THAT was compromise. There was an evil but it had to be accepted in order to have some good, with the hope of fixing it later. If those opposed to slavery at the founding of this nation refused to compromise there would be no United States.

You hate the NRA for being realists and fighting only the battles they know they can win. Yes, they compromised on the Federal AWB. That compromise is exactly the reason that the AWB had a sunset clause.

Yes, they compromised on Brady, and that compromise led to insta check which would eliminate a federal waiting period.

You may not want a group to compromise for you but I equally would not want our only truely nationally effective group to follow your path and loose everything for us. It is easy to look at what has been lost but people seem incapable of seeing what has been gained.
 
I would really like to join the nra. Im very pro 2nd amendment. The problem for me is that if I join im going to be supporting republican politicions and im not ok with thier view points on just about everything else.
 
I would really like to join the nra. Im very pro 2nd amendment. The problem for me is that if I join im going to be supporting republican politicions and im not ok with thier view points on just about everything else.

The 2A is either a critical issue to you or it is not. The NRA supports both Democrats and Republicans who support the 2A. It just happens that more Republicans tend to support it than Democrats. If you want to support the 2A then support the NRA because that is the ONLY way you will be counted when politicians look to voting blocks. They do not care about complacent gun owners.

Personally I would wonder what respect a politician would have for and of the rights in the COTUS or BoR if they fail to acknowledge the 2A... just food for thought.
 
The fact remains that driving a vehicle is not a guaranteed right, it is a privilege. And all the debate in the world will not change that, it is fact.

And, if one wants to get technical, it could be argued by the exact wording of the 2nd Amendment that the right to keep and bear arms could mean swords or axes, not guns.

This debate is never going to be settled. Making statements that aren't true, such as driving being a right, aren't going to add to it one way or the other.
 
The 2A is either a critical issue to you or it is not. The NRA supports both Democrats and Republicans who support the 2A. It just happens that more Republicans tend to support it than Democrats. If you want to support the 2A then support the NRA because that is the ONLY way you will be counted when politicians look to voting blocks. They do not care about complacent gun owners.

I see a problem with your logic.You might be a single issue voter but I am not.I am a fan of all my freedoms not just the rtkaba.
 
I see a problem with your logic.You might be a single issue voter but I am not.I am a fan of all my freedoms not just the rtkaba.

Without the one do you really have any defense for the others? I don't see a problem with my logic because logically the ONE right that was established to protect all the others should be the most important one to defend.
 
Musketeer, there is one fatal flaw in your logic.

Consider what happens if you are not free to talk about this stuff. Not to me, or anyone else.

Without our free speech rights, it would be very easy to take all the other rights away. If we are not allowed to communicate, how do you sound the alarm? And if you do manage to ring the bell, who will hear it?
 
I've read some info since posting (and discussing with Antipas) where several courts have ruled that non-profit driving is indeed a right now, so the jury will disregard my earlier statements.... :D
 
Let's see, because "I" want to know what I am getting for my membership, "I" am being a selfish and self centered child?
Why should "I" (because, no matter what you say, any organization is composed of "I"ndividuals) join an organization that "I" feel does not support the same goals that "I" believe in? Where have "I" made a mistake?

"I" ask again, what does the NRA actually DO with their time & resources besides print letters asking for more money? Why can't we get a case up that solidifies the 2A before the Supremes, because let's face it, we had the best opportunity over the last 4 years? Why is it the best you can tell me of what the NRA has done over the past 20 years is to get an expiration date stuck in the 94 AWB? Because let me tell you, that is not saying a lot. Members of the NRA have provided hundreds of millions of dollars to the NRA, the ILA, and all the other offshoots that are part of the NRA whole and what was received for that largesse besides more and more BATFE Jack Booted Thuggery, more and more restricitons on our hobby, ranges being legislated out of existance, an AWB (but it had an EXPIRATION DATE...!), a POTUS who said he WOULD NOT veto a new AWB, the state of Californiastan banning everything it can, NYC, DC and Chicago still havens of antigun sentiment...

Sure, there area lot of individual states that have gotten CCW but that was more an effort by state-level grass roots organizing than anything the NRA happened to be involved in.

G-D it, will you look at the timeline of the last 50 years and tell me what HAS GOTTEN BETTER for RKBA/2A or the entire gun ownership crowd as a whole?

In terms of the AARP having more political clout than the NRA- when is the last time you saw a viable political candidate mess with Medicare or Prescription Drug plans for seniors, versus doing something anti RKBA? The penalties for stepping on the NRA's "third rail of politics" seems to be a little light nowadays especially vis-a-vis the recent Democratic sweep of the House and Senate.

I guess if you can't be an athlete you should just be an athletic supporter.
 
In terms of the AARP having more political clout than the NRA- when is the last time you saw a viable political candidate mess with Medicare or Prescription Drug plans for seniors, versus doing something anti RKBA?

The difference between the AARP and the NRA is how closely aligned their target groups are.

The AARP can speak authoritatively on some topics (Social Security, Medicare, Prescription Drugs) because the vast majority of senior citizens, whether AARP members or not, are of a like mind on those topics. The 50+ million Social Security recipients are essentially all in favor of getting more money from the government and against getting less money.

The NRA speaks for its members, but there is usually not a similar consensus among other gun owners. The 50+ million gun owners do not necessarily share the views of the relatively small percentage who are NRA members.

Unfortunately, Social Security recipients share a clear common interest ($) and gun owners do not. Anti-gun politicians understand this and chip away at our rights rather than trying anything, such as a total ban on all firearms, that would unite all gun owners behind a common cause.
 
"Why should "I" (because, no matter what you say, any organization is composed of "I"ndividuals) join an organization that "I" feel does not support the same goals that "I" believe in?"

You shouldn't. That was easy. Any more questions? :)


""I" ask again, what does the NRA actually DO with their time & resources besides print letters asking for more money?"

Training, education and such with dues. Political action is handled - it's federal law - through separate donations to the NRA-ILA and NRA-PVF.

Just yesterday I sent them a check to upgrade from Endowment to Patron level. I haven't opened the envelope from the NRA-ILA yet. Maybe tonight.

How many times are you going to ask the same questions and then not read the answers? Just curious.

John
 
Musketeer, there is one fatal flaw in your logic.

Consider what happens if you are not free to talk about this stuff. Not to me, or anyone else.

Without our free speech rights, it would be very easy to take all the other rights away. If we are not allowed to communicate, how do you sound the alarm? And if you do manage to ring the bell, who will hear it?

Sorry but it is the complete opposite.

With actively embraced and used 2A rights the government could never take away free speech rights, or any other right.

Without actively embraced 2A rights the only thing preventing the goverment from taking any rights away it chooses is .... itself. Once the people loose all ability to resist it is over. From that point on all you can count on is the good will of the government itself not to remove your rights.

The 2A is THE linch pin of the entire Constitution. The Founding Fathers could have railed all they wanted agaisnt the crown but if they had no arms to back it up it would have been meaningless. Without the ability to resist the violation of other rights through force of arms then none of the other rights are worth the paper they are written on.
 
There is a common thread that seems to come up here and it is "What does the NRA do with my money?" Perhaps 10 minutes spent at the NRA site might explain that to you. I don't know how many times the separation between dues money and political action money must be explained and that dues cannot be used for political activities. At this point I can only conclude people are either not reading or simply ignoring the truth.

People here seem to have issues with a 2A case not being pushed by the NRA to the Supreme Court. Why ask her about this? Ask the NRA, they will tell you. I spoke first hand with Wayne LaPierre two months ago. The man makes plenty of public appearances and will field any questions you want. I asked him about Morton Grove, IL and pushing a 2A case to the Supreme Court. Morton Grove has been decided in the anti's favor in courts favourable to them. It needs to go higher. THe SCOTUS also is very particular about what they will hear. Just the NRA saying they want a case doesn't matter, the SCOTUS must agree to it. There is also the HUGE GAMBLE in brigning a SCOTUS case for the 2A. You do not want to do that unless you are 100% certain you will win. An anti 2A SCOTUS decision, and with the likes of Kennedy, Ginsburg, and Suiter it is a real possibilit the law will be thrown out and their views made into law, could spell the end for private arms ownership in the USA. We think we have four winners with Thomas, Scalia, Alito and Roberts but there is a difference between CONSERVATIVE and CONSTITUTIONALIST. There are Conservatives who are a little TOO into Federal Power that may think the 2A thing is only good under "governement control." We do not know where all four who we THINK are on our side really sit.

In the mean time the NRA has made strides in State governments across the nation. Stand your ground laws, protection of hunting lands, legal transport laws, Shall Issue CCW in 34(?) states. The wins they have had in the last decade have been far greater than the compromises. Of course if everything that has been accomplished in the past 10 years is not going to convince you perhaps the danger of a Dem House, Senate and in 2 years possibly Executive will.
 
New Member Posting

Greetings! I haven't figured out how to quote previous posts, so please bear with me as I paraphrase.

One thing that the NRA could certainly do is reverse its decision to abandon the Women's Outlook monthly publication. This one act alone is going to be responsible for several woman shooters I know to drop their memberships, and since women shooters are the single largest growth demographic for shooting sports, the NRA is completely ill-advised to not just ignore, but actively devalue their memberships. And by devalue, I mean specifically that there is no companion publication for a woman who's the spouse of significant other of a NRA member. My wife does not hunt, nor does she shoot competitively, and she definitely isn't interested in a second copy of American Rifleman around the house - therefore, she's paying a full membership price and receiving less value for it. And as she joined last Spring, she is effectively being slighted out of part of the value of her membership dues.

And one very easy thing that the NRA could do is stop sending me membership renewal notices for a membership that does not expire until Next July. I started receiving renewal notices within 60 days of joining, and I frankly resent the misuse of my dues for that.

There ARE other gun rights organizations in the country - I'm thinking particularly of the Second Amendment Sisters - and each person that renews his or her membership has the right and obligation to belong to the organization that best meets his or her needs.

The NRA would do well to keep that in mind.

All the best,
Rob
 
"My wife does not hunt, nor does she shoot competitively, and she definitely isn't interested in a second copy of American Rifleman around the house - therefore, she's paying a full membership price and receiving less value for it."

Maybe Associate membership would be a good choice for your wife. No magazine, and it's only 10 dollars per year. As for the renewal notices, all I can say is that you *will* be getting a lot of mailings from the NRA, so you may as well just get used to throwing them away. That's what I do. Others have had good luck requesting to be put on their "no-mail" list. I urge you both to keep your memberships--membership numbers translate directly to lobbying clout.

Tim
 
Tim, you can stop your patronizing BS. You as yet haven't answered anything!

As far as shall-issue CCW in the 34 states that offer it that was done via grass-roots local state organizations and again, the NRA came along for the ride. THey seem to be big on taking credit for anything anyone else does but not great on starting or finishing anything. Oh wait, wouldn't them FINISHING a Supreme case regarding 2A mean they were out of business? I don't see Wayne missing too many meals do you?

Yes, you've said NRA memberships can't be used for lobbying. Read that three times now. Yes ILA contributions are for that. Swell.

The NRA has a little newsletter aimed at EBR types now. That's filling my heart with joy. What has Wayne LaPierre done for us besides that? Do you see regulations, bans, etc going away due to the NRA's efforts? Do you honestly think a new AWB would be defeated by the NRA (Since they did so much for us in 94- wait, they got us an expiration date after ten years, that was mighty slick of them!) or would it sail through the house and senate and be signed by the new POTUS in '08?

WHAT has happened in the past 50 years to push forward the 2A/RKBA cause that makes it worth bothering to support the NRA over the JFPA or other more active organizations?

Why do I even bother talking? Forget it, you guys are too far brainwashed by the NRA to even understand what I'm talking about. Go back to polishing your $16,000 shotguns and ignore this post. YOUR guns are not in danger.
 
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