Why is everyone saying that we should leave the situation alone and call the police? What is so wrong with the idea of someone exercising the individual right to defend himself and others granted by the Constitution? While calling the cops is a good idea, they can't help you when this guy does pull out his pistol and starts shooting others. Why is Big Brother the only one who can intervene when someone does not act responsibly with a firearm?
Odd experience at Walmart this evening.
- Thread starter rantingredneck
- Start date
um, yeah, we weren't talking about a guy who was shooting other people. We were talking about a guy who was acting stupid with his gun which he may or may not have had a permit to carry. While there may have been a law broken in the display of the weapon, it wasn't exactly a "threat of imminent death or serious bodily injury" and therefore any forceful actions taken by the original poster would have put him in a legal hotspot.
I don't remember that part of the constitution
.. you might be thinking of common law, which has always given a right to defend yourself and a right to defend others if you reasonably believe they are in a situation in which they would have the right to defend themselves.
I don't remember that part of the constitution
.. you might be thinking of common law, which has always given a right to defend yourself and a right to defend others if you reasonably believe they are in a situation in which they would have the right to defend themselves.Hey, JoshB, Great Responses!
I don't know if you have a carry permit, or if you carry, but I doubt you will be allowed to for much longer if that's how you think you should be acting. It's a carry permit, not a badge. Your reactions to this would have been just as irresponsible as the party in question.
They would have arrested you when they got there, smart move. Actually, based on your posts here, I think you should do this next time.
Because we aren't cops, and he didn't do anything patently illegal anyway. Hard to say he was brandishing if you're the only one that saw it.
Missed that part of the Constitution, could you quote it?
Yeah, but he didn't do that. And unless you are psychic, you don't know he would have. He didn't. Foolish assumption.
Because that's the law and you aren't a cop.
I don't know if you have a carry permit, or if you carry, but I doubt you will be allowed to for much longer if that's how you think you should be acting. It's a carry permit, not a badge. Your reactions to this would have been just as irresponsible as the party in question.
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lanceman193
New member
This seems like a clear case of nunya bidness.It is not your job to save the world,either stay or go.But you did what you should have done.Have no second thoughts.
Not everything needs direct intervention.
I'll just move about three counters away and check out as fast as I can
and leave the place. There's a lot of morons running around, and unless
my life is directly threatened, there is no need for me to interfer.
I might talk with another shopper to call attention to it, if things gets
into brandishing. The idea is to get away as fast as I can. On the way out
call the attention of the WM greeter and ask about security. Let them
handle it.
I'll just move about three counters away and check out as fast as I can
and leave the place. There's a lot of morons running around, and unless
my life is directly threatened, there is no need for me to interfer.
I might talk with another shopper to call attention to it, if things gets
into brandishing. The idea is to get away as fast as I can. On the way out
call the attention of the WM greeter and ask about security. Let them
handle it.
no action was the right action. calling the cops would have been over the line and detaining him at gun point in a crowded store would likely have gone badly. *i* might have shot JoshB instead! 
without a clear bad guy eye witnesses would have been telling all sorts of tales if you draw down on someone.
and making anonymous calls to the cops is gutless. either you're in the right and believe in what you did or you're a busybody. a lot of you seem to have a low threshold for what constitutes calling the cops. if you are not prepared to follow through to and through trial if need be, raise your threshold.
i touch my concealed weapon periodically to make sure all is well. hopping in and out of restaurant booths, cars and activity causes jostling. i couldn't stop someone from over reacting if they caught a glimpse of something but no chance the cops arrest me for someones over reaction. oh and it's happened so save your 2 cents on that.
without a clear bad guy eye witnesses would have been telling all sorts of tales if you draw down on someone.
and making anonymous calls to the cops is gutless. either you're in the right and believe in what you did or you're a busybody. a lot of you seem to have a low threshold for what constitutes calling the cops. if you are not prepared to follow through to and through trial if need be, raise your threshold.
i touch my concealed weapon periodically to make sure all is well. hopping in and out of restaurant booths, cars and activity causes jostling. i couldn't stop someone from over reacting if they caught a glimpse of something but no chance the cops arrest me for someones over reaction. oh and it's happened so save your 2 cents on that.
I would've notified security. Think of it this way, if those guys were thugs and they ended up shooting someone later on you could've prevented it. I agree that a regular citizen shouldn't play cops, but we still need to pitch in to help clean up our streets. It starts with the citizen, you just have to direct the cops to the problem. josh
:barf: :barf:
i would respond the same way I would had you reached back and adjust your
super-tactical-crimson light-adorned pistol which was printing through your 511
vest, and which had the black Motorola GMRS radio/handheld mike protruding
from the chest pocket.....which you use to talk to your buddy at the gun show.
...ie, unless there was reasonable proof that a crime was about to...or being
committed, I would presume nothing. if needed I would assess the realistic
threat and heads-up the security staff.
I think it was irresponsible of the guy, but I agree with john_galt. The guy was just being dumb; it's bad for people who legally carry (if others see this, thinking all gun owners/CCW act this way), but it just doesn't seem justifiable to call the cops. Just my opinion though, and I'm new to CCW. There's not an excuse, but he was with his buddies, regardless of whether he was urban or a good ol' boy. Not an excuse by any means, but it doesn't sound like it was an actual threat.
Then again, I wasn't there. I just don't think the cops should've been notified unless he openly threatened the other guy.
Then again, I wasn't there. I just don't think the cops should've been notified unless he openly threatened the other guy.
oldbillthundercheif
Moderator
I think there are a few cops out there that would disagree with you. Pretty much every city has an anonymous tip line for folks who want to do the right thing, but don't want to jump through all the hoops (and potential future retaliation) involved with an open complaint. The chip trick allows people to do the same thing with a cellphone.
I've never done it, but I think it's a neat option.
Any LEOs feel like weighing in on this?
rantingredneck
New member
Shooting someone (regardless of race) for no good reason can lead to all sorts of bad things happening.
oldbillthundercheif
Moderator
You can say that again. I don't think there are any reasonable folks that would advocate even the drawing of a weapon in this sort of situation.
As I see it the main debate here is whether or not to call the fuzz with an interesting side-debate about methods of doing so.
As I see it the main debate here is whether or not to call the fuzz with an interesting side-debate about methods of doing so.
rantingredneck
New member
Exactly.
Even though in this situation I was armed (and very glad that I was!), drawing my own weapon never crossed my mind. My first instinct was to put distance and barriers between me and them and to observe.
While the behavior I witnessed was very irresponsible, I didn't see anything in it that was blatantly criminal. I appreciate the opinions of those who advocate calling the police and letting them investigate and sort it out. I can certainly appreciate that perspective and in retrospect I probably should have made the call. Live and learn I guess.
I am a bit disturbed at the advice of JoshB, who seems to have a bit of a Rambo complex. Also there is an undertone of race coming out in a post or two. Yes the group were all in urban garb, but I never said they were all African-American. The fellow with the gun was, but two of his buddies were not.
Even though in this situation I was armed (and very glad that I was!), drawing my own weapon never crossed my mind. My first instinct was to put distance and barriers between me and them and to observe.
While the behavior I witnessed was very irresponsible, I didn't see anything in it that was blatantly criminal. I appreciate the opinions of those who advocate calling the police and letting them investigate and sort it out. I can certainly appreciate that perspective and in retrospect I probably should have made the call. Live and learn I guess.
I am a bit disturbed at the advice of JoshB, who seems to have a bit of a Rambo complex. Also there is an undertone of race coming out in a post or two. Yes the group were all in urban garb, but I never said they were all African-American. The fellow with the gun was, but two of his buddies were not.
What?? Are you implying an unjustified shooting would look worse because of race? Wow, that's the kind of subtle bigotry that really sets me off. Black, white, whatever, any action would have been unjustified. Statements like this can lead to "unbelieveable implications". Before you post something like this again, try thinking.
Funny how I had the exact same picture in my head of this guy. Whisky Tango, Roger, Over.
I don't know why the rest of you carry, but I don't just carry for my own personal defence. As a law-abiding armed citizen, I carry for the protection of any other law-abiding American I may come accross.
From what the original poster expressed, I came to the conclusion that the other party was in grave danger of being shot. Mr. Redneck has since explained that he did not feel that was the case. Since he was there & I was not, I'll take him at his word. The only thing I can say is that if I saw someone in an altercation and someone was about to pull out a pistol, I would intervene. Granted, you also have to be able to make the good guy / bad guy determination.
Personnaly, I am not racist. I am a second generation American of Western European & American Indian descent. My brother-in-law also happens to be a black man and my sister had three beautiful children with him. Some of my best friends from college happen to be minorities. I hardly believe that one's character is related to the color of his skin.
From what the original poster expressed, I came to the conclusion that the other party was in grave danger of being shot. Mr. Redneck has since explained that he did not feel that was the case. Since he was there & I was not, I'll take him at his word. The only thing I can say is that if I saw someone in an altercation and someone was about to pull out a pistol, I would intervene. Granted, you also have to be able to make the good guy / bad guy determination.
Personnaly, I am not racist. I am a second generation American of Western European & American Indian descent. My brother-in-law also happens to be a black man and my sister had three beautiful children with him. Some of my best friends from college happen to be minorities. I hardly believe that one's character is related to the color of his skin.
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STS3_SSN705
New member
john_galt said:
I disagree. That logic is the reason why there has been a marked decrease in arrests in Philly following violent crimes. Noone has the stones to make even an anonymous call.