Odd experience at Walmart this evening.

R

rantingredneck

New member
Tonight was my night to stop and get supper and my wife's night to get the kids. I left work around 5:00 and headed for home. As my usual practice, once I got in my truck I armed myself. The NAA Guardian was in the console but I slipped my P90 in a fobus paddle on my hip and untucked my shirt.

I stopped at the local Walmart to pick up a few staples and to get some food from the deli for supper (didn't feel up to cooking). I was standing in line waiting to be served. There was a woman in her late 30's/early 40's finishing up her order and 5 young guys in line ahead of me. They were dressed in typical urban garb, sagging pants and 4x shirts that hung to their knees. They were bouncing all over the place and two of them were pushing each other in a semi-goodnatured way. I didn't much worry about anything at first but one of the ones doing the pushing reached into his waistband (which was around his thighs) and put his hand on his gun! He didn't pull it, but he exposed it enough that I could tell it was a Keltec P3AT with a pocket clip holding it in place. He was threatening his "friend" with it and saying things like "what you gonna do?" I moved from behind them and put another counter between me and them and kept an eye on them.

Eventually he stopped his antics and it seemed like I was the only one who noticed the gun. Now I don't want to be accused of stereotyping here, but I doubt he actually had a carry permit. I could be wrong and maybe he did, but at a minimum he was being reckless with his weapon. Eventually they moved on and to the checkouts. I didn't mention it to the Walmart employees. I looked around for them in the parking lot when I got outside to see if I could get a license plate # but they were gone.

What would you have done differently here?
 
You don't have a cellphone?

I would have been on the horn to the fuzz as soon as I had backed away enough to feel a little better about my position. You can take the little SIM chip out of your phone (it's easier with some phones than others) if you want your call to be an anonymous tip so you can leave without answering questions all evening. The phone will still call 911.

Flashing your steel (or plastic) in pubic is just not kosher, even if it was done in a joking manner (and it sounds like you were not entirely convinced it was).
 
Basically a good call but I have to agree with oldbill that the cops should have been notified. I he did have a carry permit and by chance they caught up with him, let him explain it. The only other thing is that I would have moved more than one lane away.
 
He wasn't exactly flashing it. He put his hand on it under his shirt. Had it not been for the angle I was standing to him I wouldn't have seen it. I was already watching them because of their behavior or I wouldn't have noticed it then even. It didn't seem to be a situation that necessarily warranted a 911. But then again.........
 
If he exposed the gun enough for you to identify it by make and model, then I would consider that tantamount to brandishing. As far as I know that is a no-no.

I would definitely have made the 911 call...and I would have made a more concerted effort to get a vehicle plate number.

Keep in mind that Wally World has very visible camera surviellance systems inside and out. That particular individual would more than likely have been on camera at the register...and even possibly on camera in the parking lot.
 
I would have made the call, too. Better that that sort get picked up and questioned, than to see their name on the news later as wanted for a gang execution or such.

That is the sort that should NOT have a gun, anyway...makes the rest of us look bad.
 
I would have called the po-po. If you were correct in the identification of the gun and the fact that he was "wrestling" or mock threatening like that, to me, in my humble possible uninformed opinion is brandishment of the weapon.

A person in possession of a handgun stating "What you gonna do" is a verbal threat and using a firearm as intimidation which at least is cause for removal of his permit if he had one and confiscation of the firearm.
 
In my humble opinion it was the extenuating circumstances that would have had me on the phone to the local police. Acting in that manner and making an overt threat (jokingly or not) created what I would have thought to be a dangerous situation.

Any single act and no, I wouldn't have bothered. But put it all together, and yes, I would have made the call.

Thanks!
Greg
 
dunno man! I don't think I would have called the cops. I mean, maybe he did have a permit. I must admit some of my pals dress like slouches and they have permits. Although they don't act up like that, they don't let people see their weapons and they sure don't play grab@ss with their pals and show their weapons off.

So I don't know. I'm all for 'live and let live' and I'd hate for someone to call the cops on me if I had a permit and they happened to see my gun.

I think you did the right thing.
 
There is a certain level of responsibility you accept when you decide to carry a gun. This guy [irregardless of ethnicity] was not acting in a responsible manner. It would be one thing if his shirt accidently came up and exposed his pistol. It is completely another for him to place his hand on it and threaten someone with it.
Personally, I would have pulled out my pistol, "suggest" that he slowly place his on the counter and then call the cops. People like this pose a threat to all of us.
 
That's tough. They were acting irresponsibly, for sure. It very well may have them just 'playing' with each other in a good natured (but irresponsible) manner. Did they leave together? Was the guy exposing the gun -- or was he just trying to hold it in place?

You can't judge whether or not someone has a license to carry based on appearances.

I'm not sure I'd have done anything differently, unless the person who was carrying had actually moved to draw. I certainly would've notified the police at that point.

Based on the facts presented, drawing yourself would've simply created a real incident, and the police would've been taking you to jail at the end of the day for threatening deadly force against two people who hadn't actually done anything. Think about it -- if this guy DID have a carry permit, all he has to say is: "Sure, we were horsing around, and my gun must've flashed, then this idiot freaked out."
 
Guns are not something people should be "horsing around" with. Besides, if they play the tape, they'll see a thug reaching for his gun and you doing the best thing you can - protecting everyone around you from this very irresponsible individual.
 
Josh,

Horsing around while carrying a gun (again, not clear to me whether or not the gun was deliberately being shown or what,) earns you a stern lecture and a warning from a police officer, along with an admonition that you shouldn't carry at ALL until you learn how to do it responsibly.

Drawing on someone who isn't obviously presenting a deadly threat to you earns a prison sentence.
 
Thanks for all the responses to this.

Let me give a bit more info.

I NEVER considered drawing my own weapon here. This situation fell WAY below that threshold. In NC to intervene on someone's behalf using deadly force you better know that the individual you are protecting did nothing to escalate the situation or instigate it. Since you can never really know that if you come into a situation already in progress it's better to call the police and let them sort it out. Had he drawn his weapon I would've retreated further and dialled 911. Had he turned toward me then I would've protected myself. Had he turned toward another of the bystanders then I would've felt justified in protecting them. As far as getting into a situation that developed between him and his friends, I don't know what has been said or done between them up to that point.

These guys did leave together and I never took the situation as an actual "threat" from one to the other, even though rereading my OP what I wrote could be taken that way. They were horsing around and behaving very inappropriately. Maybe I should have called the police, but I'm still not sure. They left the store about 5 minutes ahead of me and I looked around for them in the parking lot thinking I could maybe get a plate number, but I couldn't find them. They may have been on foot, I don't know.

Anyway, thanks guys. Always nice to get a second read on these kinds of situations. Learning experiences and all.
 
You can take the little SIM chip out of your phone (it's easier with some phones than others) if you want your call to be an anonymous tip so you can leave without answering questions all evening. The phone will still call 911.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that tip

When he put his hand on his gun he went to far.
He could have simply put his hand in that general area and the friend would have gotten the idea if he was just joking
 
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+1 for calling the police. If he had a CWP they might just lecture him about "keeping it conceald". If he didn't . . . well I'm a skeptical, old man and I freely admit I negatively pre-judge "urban culture and coture".

I strongly believe that the behavior of ALL CWP'ers (especially when actually packing) should be completely above any reproach. By calling the police you'd either educate an immature CWP holder in how to prperly behave while packing or you'd be taking a thug or potential gang banger off the street . . . win - win situation.
 
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