Obama

I guess complaining about Mexicans and Latinos coming here against the law is racist. Kind of like trying to slow down the spread of crack babies with harsh sentences is racist.

Cool, lets just pick the laws we like and ignore the rest.
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Well no, it's generally the characterizations that come about when making those arguments that can get to be a bit racist. I'm not talking about you in particular, but if you really wanted me to go back and find a few good ones just from this forum I suppose I could when I find the time. The ones that weren't edited or deleted by the mods, at least.

That, and some of the arguments that come about when we talk about increasing legal immigration or guest worker visas as well (thus offering more legal options for entry).

EDIT: Really, though, this is an argument for another thread. I'll let whatever response you have to this stand until somebody cares enough to start it.
 
Well , we have a large population of Mexicans in this community and I have yet to see any particularly racist sentiment toward them. They work hard and stay out of trouble for the most part. With that being said, they need to be legal.
 
I fully understand what Obama was saying to his uber elitist audience (when he did not think he was being recorded). I choose to live in the rural mountains outside Denver because I don't want to live in a leftist authoritarian-controlled urban area. I could just as easily have chosen Denver as a place to live.

I have met many big city elitist type people that think they are superior to others because they know how to play the system in big city politics. When I teach a Basic Mountaineering Course I have to be very careful not to have more than one of these elitist types in the group. It is usually easy to spot these people. They usually just moved to Colorado from NYC, Chicago or LA. They just read a climbing book and now want to take a climbing course. They are like know-it-alls because of the book they read. As an instructor it is almost a full-time job to prevent these people from hurting themselves or others. It is like they never experienced nature and cannot recognize dangerous situations. They don't understand that their wise-guy wheeling and dealing will not work with Mother Nature. Obama exudes this same type of elitism.

The following article pretty much sums up what I have observed:

http://www.theminorityreportblog.com/blog_entry/cni_redrum/2008/04/15/barack_obama_has_a_point_no_kidding
Barack Obama has a point. There are a group of people who are seeing it all slip away. They grab onto what they can hold and use these illusory points of reference as a substitute for genuine power and verifiable free will. They indulge in bong hits of false consciousness to the point where they genuinely believe that reality is the wasteland for individuals not up to the task of handling the narcotic of intellectual self-justification.
Barack missed the metro train when he assigned these characteristics to small towns scattered throughout the American Hinterland of Central and Western Pennsylvania. America’s urban cohabitations are where people in America have lost the ability to direct their own lives. They are seas of anonymity and get as close as any part of America comes to being zones of hard determinism amongst The Land of the Free.

Part of this regimentation serves a valid purpose. By definition and intent, urban centers feature more densely packed populations. Theories of urban development describe how cities served to reduce economic transaction costs and allow greater latitude for professional specialization. Having more people per square mile has its economic advantages.

This mass agglomeration of humanity also offers profound social disadvantages. Large crowds of people require large doses of authoritarian control. This ultimately goes to the heads of those doing all of this controlling. Any modern dictionary definition of authoritarian control would do well to feature a portrait of Michael Bloomberg, Mayor, Dominus et Deus of New York City.

The overpowered authorities aren’t the only aspect of urban environments that saps the power of the individual. The sheer presence and scope of the humanity around you makes you assume the status of a pissmire climbing a tall, vast anthill. Bob Dole once described how seeing the unending Kansas Prairie could put a man’s place in the world in perspective and teach humility.....
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HKuser,

I am addressing two different issues.

I was addressing Wingman's decision not to have basic compassion for illegal aliens. It is possible to feel sorry for them as human beings without advocating "open borders." I'm not talking about folks who commit felonies, I am talking about the average people who came here seeking a better life. Regardless of whether or not you think they should be here, they are not animals and should be afforded some basic human dignity.

As far as your decision not to support Barack Obama. That is your right. I don't think it is possible to attach a qualitative moral value to that unless you said "The only reason I am not supporting him is he is a black man." (I think you'd agree that would be a genuinely racist reason to not support him.) Also, I think it would be racist to support him ONLY beause he is a black man. Other than that, you can choose to not like him for any reason. This is America.

So, HKuser to be clear:

You are free to be anti-illegal immigration. If you think the illegals should be rounded up and shot, you're probably a racist. Wanting our immigration laws enforced as the currently stand may be impractical, but doesn't make you a racist. Ripping families apart with no regard for their feelings makes you a pretty nasty person in my opinion. However, simply wanting to secure our borders and protect our workrs does not make you racist.

You are free to support Obama or not. If you dislike him only because he's black, you're a racist. If someone dislikes you because you are white, they are a racist. The sauce that's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Otherwise Herr Hkuser, the world is your oyster and no one has any right to judge your beliefs.
 
ZeroJunk said:
"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world.

I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it." -- Barack Obama
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I really don't see that his intended change will do anything but try to take stuff away from me and give it to whoever he thinks needs it.
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Actually, Obama never said that. If we're all gonna hate on Barack Obama (it's getting increasingly easier and justifiable, yeah?), let's at least stick to facts.
 
You are free to be anti-illegal immigration. If you think the illegals should be rounded up and shot, you're probably a racist. Wanting our immigration laws enforced as the currently stand may be impractical, but doesn't make you a racist. Ripping families apart with no regard for their feelings makes you a pretty nasty person in my opinion. However, simply wanting to secure our borders and protect our workrs (sic) does not make you racist.
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Actually, I said absolutely nothing about "illegals" (sic). I think encouraging poor people from other countries to come here so they be exploited without regard for the law, and so our lower economic strata can be pushed out of jobs with legally enforced wages and health and safety protections is an abomination.

You are free to support Obama or not. If you dislike him only because he's black, you're a racist. If someone dislikes you because you are white, they are a racist. The sauce that's good for the goose is good for the gander.
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Do I oppose a black man as President? No. Do I oppose this black man as President? Most certainly yes. Do I think he should be supported merely so we can check off a box of tolerance? No.

Otherwise Herr Hkuser, the world is your oyster and no one has any right to judge your beliefs.
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Herr? Where did this come from? I think you're going over the top.
 
HK User lighten up. I was teasing you OK? Just a joke? Herr as in your moniker HK user you like German guns. I was not as if I called you "Mein guter und treuer Partei Kamerad."

Really, draw a breath and relax.

As for immigration that was directed to others.
 
I was addressing Wingman's decision not to have basic compassion for illegal aliens.
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I never stated I did not have basic compassion for "all" people, however like
in all things it is a two way street, do not be so quick to judge people who
have a different view point then yours. Much of the illegal problem is not
race but the large numbers and the failure to assimilate.
 
To Senator Obama's actual comments...

While I think "bitter" is the wrong word, as it implies a whiny, victim metality that has never obtained in any small town I've lived in, the sentiment he's describing is real.

When people have seen their formerly good-paying, middle-class jobs shipped overseas in search of cheaper labor...

When companies bring in illegal workers to do the jobs that can't be sent away, solely because they will work for less money...

When those same people are cultivated every 2, 4 or 6 years by people who claim to represent their interests, only to be thrown overboard as soon as the politicians get the job...

They get pi$$ed. And they should.

The drive for cheap labor at all costs is killing America. "Free trade", really global arbitrage of labor, is killing America. I'm willing to bet that someone who came out in favor of a tariff structure that took into account the labor and regulatory cost differentials, so that goods made overseas would cost the same as goods made in America, by Americans, would get a huge amount of support.

The more money Americans make, the better for America. The more money that stays in America, the better for America. I'm an American, and the well-being of my Country and it's people is all I care about.

--Shannon
 
If we're all gonna hate on Barack Obama (it's getting increasingly easier and justifiable, yeah?), let's at least stick to facts.
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I took it along with all quotes you see in email and L&P with a grain of salt. I would expect anybody capable of posting on this forum to do the same. Since the candidates themselves and their surrogates routinely mis-quote each other and one is going to be president, don't be indignant to see commoners repeat similar in a political forum.
 
"Free trade", really global arbitrage of labor, is killing America.
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Anyone who is against free trade should check their zippers.

I'll bet you $5 that your zipper was not made in America. Let's boycott foreign-made products! You can start by taking off your pants.

And if your zipper was made WITH PRIDE in America, then it was most likely made by a Japanese company (YKK) that outsourced its jobs to Macon, Georgia.

Yeah, that's right - reverse outsourcing!

The same goes for those who own Toyotas - it was manufactured in Georgetown, Kentucky.

"Everyone, back in the pile!"

I thought this thread was about Obama and how he thinks he's better than middle Americans.
 
The more money Americans make, the better for America. The more money that stays in America, the better for America. I'm an American, and the well-being of my Country and it's people is all I care about.
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It is looking more and more like the Europeans are proving that their system of protectionism is, by many indicators, providing the average European worker a better quality of life and standard of living than our system of anything goes (overseas) does for the similar American worker.

The European system is providing higer wages, better health care, much longer vacations, much more time off for things like neonatal care, more job security, and etc.

What do we Americans get from "free trade" other than slightly lower prices at Wal Mart and some seriously over-rated Japanese cars?
 
Was Ferraro right?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080415/ap_on_el_pr/obama_johnson

And this for Hillary.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cq/20080415/pl_cq_politics/politics2704266

Three Pennsylvania polls this week suggest that Hillary Rodham Clinton is rebuilding her edge in Pennsylvania--or at least starting to hold off Barack Obama--while he tries to put the "bitter" remark controversy behind him.
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Obama told the Philadelphia Inquirer in an interview yesterday that he had "mangled" the Pennsylvania remark.
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"Mangled", yeah, he slipped up and said what he really thinks.:mad:
 
protectionism
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Warning: Your guns with foreign-sounding manufacturer names were most likely not made in America. And if they were, then that foreign manufacturer has outsourced its jobs into America.

Boycott foreign-made products! Boycott outsourcing! Unite!

I'll gladly take that Sig or HK off your hands.

On topic: polls show that the "bitter" comment made little impact.
 
Bitter? Me?

Nope. Pissed is 'prolly a better word. BO, it seems to me, anyways seems to be insinuatin' that I, and others that make less money than he does, are hopeless and helpless LOSERS that can't take care of ourselves. We NEED the gubmint's help, he says. All I have to do is agree to give up even MORE of my money (WHAT?!?! 1/3 of my stuff ain't enough for ya, you greedy, Collectivist Bastard?) and MORE of my rights, so he can HELP me. I don't want his helping hand, and if that hand keeps rootin' around for my wallet, he may see an end of it he has never seen before. Yep. PISSED is a much better word for what I feel.
 
It is looking more and more like the Europeans are proving that their system of protectionism is, by many indicators, providing the average European worker a better quality of life and standard of living than our system of anything goes (overseas) does for the similar American worker.

The European system is providing higer wages, better health care, much longer vacations, much more time off for things like neonatal care, more job security, and etc.
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Do you actually have a citation for this intuition?

Hope you enjoy their firearms laws, too, while you're at it.
 
Obama_Hatfield_Clan.jpg
 
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