NY Cops

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http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/25/nyc.shooting.ap/index.html

Quote:
NEW YORK (AP) -- "Police fired 50 rounds Saturday at a car of unarmed men leaving a bachelor party at a strip club, killing the groom on his wedding day in a shooting that drew a furious outcry from family members and community leaders..."

Anyone want to try defending these rookies? 50 shots at unarmed men? 21 bullets hit the target out 50! One guy fired 31 times!

How bad does it have to get?
 
I believe the article stated that the five officers involved in the shooting had a combined 49 years of experience. I think the rookie comment doesnt apply here.
 
Sharpton joins protests
old Al Sharpton will straighten out this mess just like he did in the Twanna Brawley case yrs ago.

the cops weren't rookies and 1 canister of tear gas probably would have been a lot quieter. The artical does not say if the cops tried to pull them over,The spray of bullets hit the car 21 times, after the vehicle rammed into an undercover officer and then an unmarked NYPD minivan twice, police said. Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly would not say if the collisions were what prompted police to open fire. they certianly could have probably got the driver on a DWI if they had blocked them in with the other cars.
 
Eghad said:
I believe the article stated that the five officers involved in the shooting had a combined 49 years of experience. I think the rookie comment doesnt apply here.
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From several articles on this incident it seems clear that the five cops overreacted and opened up like the Wild West; I suppose giving 4 out of 5 of these cops the benefit of the doubt with the "rookie" comment... the dude that re-clipped and kept on firing, not so much.
 
NYPD has a sad history of firing to slidelock... Knowing and being related to several NYPD officers I think the issue is training. The department is just too big to give continuous training to. Many of the guys on the force only take out their gun to qualify when needed. Curse me but the addition of point and click Glocks and DAO Sigs, minimal maintainence training, high capacity mags and multiple officers firing at once results in a hail of gunfire with a race to empty. All those shots and nobody able to appraise anything. You cannot tell me the guy who relaoded had a clear idea of what he was shooting at the whole time.

NY State has an AWB still with hi-cap mags a no-no for non-LEOs. Perhaps it shoudl be the other way around.
 
From what I've read this morning, an undercover officer inside the bar radioed out that he'd heard one of the men make a comment about having or getting a gun as they were leaving.

John
 
I'll wait for the investigation to finish before commenting, a bit of advice we should all heed

WildsharptonandnewspapersarehardlygoodsourcesAlaska
 
CNN.com said:
A grand jury was investigating the incident. Kelly said none of the five veteran officers had ever discharged their weapons in the line of duty. He has not been able to interview the officers because the district attorney must first complete an investigation, he said.
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Making up for lost time, I guess.

WildAlaska said:
I'll wait for the investigation to finish before commenting, a bit of advice we should all heed
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Yes, because I'm sure the investigation will be entirely fair and impartial. No, I'll go ahead and comment now...50+ rounds and not a gun in sight? I simply cannot imagine an explanation that I would ever accept, though I'm sure the NYPD will come up with something. They always do. Anything short of sodomizing minorities in the stationhouse bathrooms seems to be a-okay around there.
 
Anything short of sodomizing minorities in the stationhouse bathrooms seems to be a-okay around there.
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Yeah, right...:barf:

OK...since we are painting with a Broad brush, all gun owners are sadistic murdering snipers...like Charles Whitman...

Like that?

WildposthocergopropterhocAlaska
 
Wildalaska said:
I'll wait for the investigation to finish before commenting, a bit of advice we should all heed
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I too will await the Grand Jury investigation but that shouldn't stop us from discussing it should it? I mean... isn't point of "The Firing Line" for discussion of forum firearm topics? Since NYC's finest are involved, and 50 shots were utilized, it seems topical... I do realize that media stories may be biased but such reckless firearm useage by police, in my opinion, may one day jeopardize civilians and their rights to firearm useage...
 
If reports are accurate, the folks involved were not, strictly speaking, "unarmed," they were "armed" with a 2,000 pound motor vehicle.
 
If reports are accurate, the folks involved were not, strictly speaking, "unarmed," they were "armed" with a 2,000 pound motor vehicle.
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I would agree. Unfortunately NYPD policy prohibits shooting in those circumstances, so it sounds like they were in the wrong as far as policy goes.
 
I would agree. Unfortunately NYPD policy prohibits shooting in those circumstances, so it sounds like they were in the wrong as far as policy goes.
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Perhaps this has something to do with the fact that "getting out of the damn way" is probably a better way for the officer to protect themselves than "hail of gunfire."
 
Sounds to me like the officers did a pretty good job of protecting themselves...the other guy is dead; not them. I challenge anybody to produce, in writing, evidence that the NYPD policy precludes an officer from firing on the driver of a vehicle in which the driver is trying to run down the officer.

Oh, and Glocks don't use "clips." :D
 
People are very much more maneuverable than cars are. A DV would have an excuse, but cops need to have a minimum level of fitness and agility. If a car is too close for them to get out of the way, how will shooting the driver stop the car in time?

I can't imagine a rationale for shooting at a vehicle to defend myself, unless there are people in the vehicle shooting at me.

From what I've read this morning, an undercover officer inside the bar radioed out that he'd heard one of the men make a comment about having or getting a gun as they were leaving.
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That's still legal with the proper permission slip even in New York, no?
 
Sounds to me like the officers did a pretty good job of protecting themselves...the other guy is dead; not them. I challenge anybody to produce, in writing, evidence that the NYPD policy precludes an officer from firing on the driver of a vehicle in which the driver is trying to run down the officer.
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No. A "good job" protecting themselves would have been to save their own lives without unnecessarily ending anybody else's. I too would be interested in what the policy states; if these cops were in the right, then the policy should perhaps be reviewed. If these cops weren't following the policy, the lot of them should be fired, or go to prison.

Oh, and the guy who reloaded and emptied a second mag in a one-way gunfight; he should definitely go to prison, regardless of the damn policy.
 
Oh, and the guy who reloaded and emptied a second mag in a one-way gunfight; ...
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091848.jpg


Apt photo, given the bullet hole in an apartment window that I read about in the New York Times.
 
I challenge anybody to produce, in writing, evidence that the NYPD policy precludes an officer from firing on the driver of a vehicle in which the driver is trying to run down the officer.
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I don't have a copy of the NYPD policy, but I'll take the Mayor's word for it:

Bloomberg also said police appeared to have violated the policy stating that officers cannot shoot at a vehicle being used as a weapon if no other deadly force is involved.
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I can see how it COULD have happened.

From the yahoo story.

"Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly has said the groom was involved in an argument outside the club after 4 a.m., and one of his friends made a reference to a gun. An undercover officer walked closely behind Bell and his friends as they headed for their car. As he walked toward the front of the vehicle, they drove forward — striking him and an undercover police vehicle, Kelly said."

So could the under cover officer have walked in front of the parked car and drawn his/her pistol to stop them? If so my first reaction would be to run them over with the only weapon I had, my car.


"The gunfire in the current case stemmed from an undercover operation inside the Kalua Cabaret, where seven officers in plain clothes were investigating alleged prostitution and drug use."

So the shots where ALL fired by under cover officers? I don't know about you but I would be running them over if put in the same place. WHY? Because they look like criminals, if they fit in at all with the 4 AM crowd like "under cover" means.
 
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