NRA is calling ATF to review the bump stock!!

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Ain't gonna happen,my friend.
Again, pick your fights carefully...
...and learn the strategic value of rope a dope.
 
Nancy Pelosi said she hopes the banning of them turns into a "slippery slope".

Thing is, the reason they are legal is because it requires some sort of shooter input for every shot fired, so the firearm doesn't meet the current definition of "machine gun". The spring loaded return of the Akins accelerator and AW-sim were ruled as machineguns because of their spring return, that required no additional shooter input for them to fire one round after another.

Problem with wording a law that could ban a bump fire stock would be that it would be difficult for it to also not include self loading rifles because they can all be bump fired without one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-nUA52BS3c

"Anyone who thinks we're going to wall away from ~60 dead/500 wounded Scot free is delusional."
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We do it every weekend and have for years and years with drunk driving and haven't banned automobiles or alcohol.
 
"Ain't gonna happen,my friend."

That is precisely my point. No one pushes back against tyranny. That is exactly why we are dealing with such horror.

We live with the gangs, the drugs, the violence, the murder and mayhem, the insulting and belittling of women, the devalue of human life, the oppression of so-called elected rulers, indoctrination of children transformed into hate machines, and the general dismantling of American tradition......

It's no wonder people are flipping out and you response to to suggest that it is not going to get fixed. That is what I mean. No hope. No joy. No future.

Why do you suppose the average millennial has become so despondent?

You want to talk about delusion? We are giving up! and for what? NOTHING if not shear laziness!
 
Anyone who thinks we're going to wall away from ~60 dead/500 wounded Scot free is delusional.
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We have to resist the conversations being started by emotions. Vietnam kills many more Americans and we didn't ban war??

That said, the atf should have reviewed bump sticks before. The previous administration failed us here. Bump stocks were made to circumvent NFA. That is ATF jurisdiction.

That said, I truest believe NFA should be repealed.

Also, when do we talk about the criminals? Im sure this wasn't the first thing he did against the law. He didn't wake up and formulate the plan. We have to stop the plan. The plan starts with the ideaology. Where are we on that? This matters....the tool does not.
 
They are going to extract a pound of flesh for this event. Anyone who doesn't believe that is delusional.
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I'd ask if you have the slightest clue about the legislative process or any other thing you've been blathering about but the answer is self-evident. Which Judiciary committee member is going to move a gun control bill to the House or Senate floor against the desires of the NRA? Who, in House leadership, is going to allow it to be scheduled for a floor vote?

These are the things that are necessary for any kind of "pound of flesh" to happen. For any kind of "pound of flesh" scenario to happen, you would basically need those politicians to tell NRA"- We're having the vote and we don't care that you oppose it" or NRA has to agree to it.

Pick your fights? There wasn't going to be any fight. The bill was going to die quietly and unknown in committee JUST LIKE IT DID UNDER OBAMA.

Now there is going to be a fight; because as soon as the NRA gave an inch, they occupied that space and are demanding more. Welcome to politics!
 
C7AR15 said:
I'm sure this agency (CPSC) could be used to remove bump stocks from the store shelves
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Are you serious? CPSC has been legislatively forbidden from regulating firearms and related items since the gun banners tried that approach to get rid of guns back in the 1970s. It is great to see gun owners suggesting the Pete Shields approach though. Warms my heart.
 
Six years on the Hill, three in the Big House.
That enough ?

It was there that I learned that corn futures in Nebraska sometimes trumped desperate ICBM reqm'ts -- for a time.
...and I never forgot the value of that "rope a dope" for a strategic win, or to protect an asset that took priority.

Other than that... not the slightest clue. :cool: :rolleyes: ;)
 
So, lay out any plausible scenario where gun control advances without the agreement of the NRA using all your expertise. Also, you keep using that word. I don't think "rope a dope" means what you think it means.
 
FWIW, Gunbroker has a notice on their site that they are pulling all bump stock offerings and will accept no more.

For all condemning the NRA, I ask, who else is going to effectively fight for the 2nd? Just look at the responses from the antis the last week. One Hollywooder was quoted as wanting the membership executed! Sometimes it's good to be hated. I think I'll send ILA some money!

PS: Sent them $100. You should, too.
 
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Why not the bullets themselves?
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Watching CNN this morning they're saying he tried to buy tracers but the place he was getting ammo at was out of stock.

So they had a short discussion as to what that would have meant.

So you bring up a good point, they could ban tracers.. we don't need them right? why not ban AP ammo? they already do it for handguns but why not extend that to rifles? do we really need it?

Obviously Im playing devils advocate here but I mean can someone show a need for tracers or armor piercing ammo?
Seems like the same category as the bump stock "they're useless / don't need'em"

Bartholomew Roberts said:
Now there is going to be a fight; because as soon as the NRA gave an inch, they occupied that space and are demanding more. Welcome to politics!
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QFT :(
 
Rangerrich99 said:
Just a little thought: I don't care about the bump stock; always thought it was a toy. And before tonight, I would've been just fine if the government decided to ban them.

But earlier tonight I was speaking with a buddy I know that is from Australia. He was giving me the usual what-for about how we need to ban all guns, blah blah blah and so on, when he mentioned that rifle scopes are banned in Australia since the Port Arthur massacre. RIFLESCOPES.

Martin Bryant (I.Q. 66, couldn't read or write) managed to somehow hit two moving targets at over 1300 yards with a scoped rifle, and the Australian government decided the best course of action was to ban riflescopes along with every thing else.

Methinks we want to tread very carefully in the near future, or mass emotional hysteria could create something we're going to sorry for, for a very long time.

Again, it's just a bit of information. This isn't Australia after all.
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I have been trying to find where rifle scopes are banned, or if there is a type that is banned, can someone provide references.

There are many thoughts that come to mind.

United we stand, divided we fall.
If the hunters don't support those that want weapons for militia use then first goes the self-defense type firearms, shortly followed by the hunting firearms.

It is a slippery slope to regulate or legislate the bump fire stock.
While I feel that is true, it is a very focused statement. We are already on that slippery slope, and actually many other slippery slopes. I propose an alternate term is national decline. Those that are agnostic didn't support those that wanted God in schools and the ten commandments at the court house, thus we have more people without the moral influence of Judaeo-Christian values like "Tho shalt not kill", and the other side of that, if you do you will burn in an eternal pit of flame and brimstone. Those that thought prison life was just too hard on these criminals, and that capital punishment is cruel and unusual. Well, many may have disagreed, but not too vigorously because hey they will be locked up for life so who cars. Well now they are not locked up for life, and we have to police the child molesters ourselves because they dump them back into our community and feel it is adequate to post on some web site that they are there and we should check that site and know what is going on, but don't make them feel uncomfortable. What about the slippery slope of the New Deal that has been considered the reason minority blacks left the republican party and joined the democrat party, on in other words, the slippery slope of providing food, services, and a life style for a vote, or maybe better said just plain old buying votes. I could go on and on across many topics that describe the decline of America.

In my opinion, bump fire stocks are done. The NRA has given every legislator a way out of their campaign promises concerning gun control and they will take that free pass. Then everyone feels great and can go on the talk shows and declare to the world they are the party that cares.

Then you look closely at the rifles used, and in one of them is a magazine resembling a SureFire mag. Well, that has to go now too. I mean, he used it just like the bump fire stock.

And what about the ammo? Was it M855? If it was you know the cry that will come about that, "We already tried to do the right thing about LAP rounds and we failed, look what it cost us. It is our moral duty to do the right thing now! For the CHILDREN!"

What about the blame they try to throw on conservatives that we didn't want legislation to keep the mentally ill from firearms. Wasn't it the liberals that said medical records are off limits! Well, if you can't see the medical records, then that implies another approach to declare mental fitness, and then the conservatives are wise enough to see the slippery slope of that. If you are unfit to be responsible with a firearm and not go out and kill people, are you responsible enough to vote? Are you responsible enough to drive a vehicle and not kill people? Down the slope we go.

This nation was designed for a moral liberty loving independent people that is not envious or jealous, that believes it is better to have opportunity than have some lukewarm socialist existence. The right to bear arms is a blessing and a responsibility. It shows that we can hold in our hands an instrument that we could use for evil, but we do not, and it never really crosses our mind. It shows we are humane. So, where do we find ourselves today? We have a bunch bunch of dogs and they are protected by the Constitution. The nation seems to have decided that dogs they are and dogs they will be, so the Constitution has to change to govern dogs instead of humane people. Well, that is one approach, but another would be to change them from dogs back to people. We all can be better, more kind, more patient, and that will make everything better. But, we also have to have the moral conviction that there are some that should be locked up for life, that there are some that need the death penalty, there are some that need to be institutionalized, etc. We have to be able to judge and live with our judgement.

So, even though I hope not, say by to the bump fire stock, and slide down the slope a bit further as militia minded people are not supported by those that just hunt, etc. It seems there is no way to stop the madness of this world.
 
While discussing the Feinstein bill is tangential to discussing the NRA's involvement... let's stick to Discussing the NRA in this thread.

If you must discuss the actual bill(s) before Congress, I suggest you use the other thread: Feinstein's Bumpfire Ban Bill
 
One so-far-unspoken possibility is that the proposal for an ATF regulatory ban was supported by the POTUS behind closed doors, and the NRA leadership agreed to play along so he wouldn't have to call them down in public.

This way both DJT and the NRA get to declare a win, there is no protracted fight with Congress, and rhetorical punches get thrown at HRC and BHO in the process, which makes both the NRA and POTUS happy. :)

IOW the NRA may have been caught between a rock and a hard place: support the ATF ban and upset some of their members, OR decry the ban and get thrown under the bus by the POTUS on Twitter, which would ALSO upset some of their members. They may have calculated that the former outcome was better in the long run.

DISCLAIMER: This is all speculation. I do not have an inside source. :D
 
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A post was deleted because it was off topic to this thread. A response to that now deleted post was also deleted.
 
The NRA...
I read this article from the LA Times and then the comments section.
"The NRA, steadfastly against expanded gun regulation, now is ready to compromise on 'bump stock' devices. What happened?"
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http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-nra-bump-stocks-20171006-story.html

I was pleasantly surprised the comments were so reasonable.

There's only 20 or so comments though so maybe the crazies haven't come out yet. Other publications have comment sections that really vilified the NRA.
 
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So far, it has been pretty predictable. Based on the comments I've read in news stories, people who hated the NRA still hate the NRA and are demanding more capitulation. Meanwhile, about half the people who supported NRA are madder than heck and tearing up membership cards. Same result for politicians who adopt the NRA's playbook on this (Dean Heller's Facebook page was an excellent example).

All of which was eminently forseeable as well. I'm not even sure why NRA felt they needed to comment on this issue. Let the Trump Administration announce it was reviewing the Obama era ATF decision and NRA can then release a statement saying "We'll continue to keep an eye on ATF and wait to see what their findings are." That moves the decision to ATF instead of trying to watch Congress draft a bill that is going to be the camel nose on semi autos. It signals the NRA's base that the NRA is active without hemming NRA in to any oarticular course of action.

If the rumors I've heard that LaPierre and Cox released that statement without running it by the Board first are true, then both of those officers need to be removed from their positions as a statement like "The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations." indicates a vision of the NRA incompatible with mine and I believe, most of its membership.
 
I believe the NRA’s decision did more damage to our movement than losing any legal bump stock challenge. If we would have lost, at least we all would have done so standing shoulder to shoulder, NRA and all. However; their decision appears to have widen the internal gap among us, increased the resistance to the NRA, to the so called pro-2nd congressional members, and thus weakened us. I pray I am wrong.
 
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jrinne0430 said:
Both candidates for VA Governor are in support of the ban. Yes, this includes Ed Gillespie. Once the NRA gave in, so many feel it is safe to do the same. I don't know how the NRA and some of the pro-2nd congressional members thought giving in is somehow wise. More demands and bans to follow.
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Ya know I was worried about the federal level, I know some states will ban them but I wasn't thinking about my own state.. I already contacted my senators (house rep is rabid), But I guess I should be voicing to my State Legislature too.

I was really worried Buckeye Firearms (state org) would fall in behind the NRA since they're really chummy with them.. but I was pleasantly surprised to see they aren't backing down on bumpstocks.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/regulating-or-banning-bump-fire-devices-wont-stop-another-attack

They have a interesting video of Iraq vet and jerry miculek going at it.. IV with a bump stock and it was neck and neck even so.


IF Wayne made the statement on his own and they get rid of him that would go a very long way's with me, I could probably forget the statement ever happen.. although the damage is done I think.
 
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