NRA being investigated

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Banner headlines reporting the NRA is under investigation, while factual, are simply being used as a smear tactic, implying, and counting on the gullibility of people to believe that investigation = guilt.
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A perfect example of just one tactic used relentlessly by our opposition throughout the last year and a half, (arguably decades), designed to divide and defeat us... and used VERY effectively.
Any means available to instill doubt... fear... dissent... and ultimately division amongst ourselves, their enemy.
There is no more sure fire way to insure their victory and our defeat... and they are darn well sharp enough to understand that, even when we are apparently not.

Whether we are hand gun, rifle, or shotgun guys or gals... weekend plinkers, hunters, collectors, or hard core competitors... all that matters is we are all pro-gun and like it or not we are ALL in this fight against the anti-gunners together.
We had better figure out how to be at least as sharp as they are or we will surely lose.
This is not a battle that our nation can afford to lose, even if a good portion of it is just too clueless to realize that.
 
Well, that assumes that the intent is to divide us rather than create the appearance of division. I’m sure gun owners who support gun control exist. They do seem to appear here in numbers all out of proportion to what I encounter in real life.
 
Folks, we are not into ideological purity here and certainly not into having ideological tests for political party membership (which we don't care about). Such has been and will be deleted.

Gun owners are not monolithic on legal principles and gun control is too broad a term to say you are opposed or not opposed to a specific measure.

Turn back to whether the Russians and the NRA are doing whatever or not doing whatever.
 
SonofaScubaDiver said:
The FBI isn't part of the "anti" crowd.
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And yet two different people within the FBI just illegally leaked details of a classified investigation to the press, including a dossier outlining intelligence on what the FBI suspects to be a Russian organized crime figure; but they didn’t provide a single detail about actual money to the NRA except that the Russian is an NRA member and attends its meetings? Apparently they also neglected to mention to the journalist that the FBI had not contacted the NRA about this investigation either.

That’s an odd sort of leak to make, don’t you think?
 
If the NRA did funnel Russian money to any political campaign in our country, I want to know about it. Period.
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I will agree with this sentiment. I don't understand the knee-jerk reaction to any investigation, including the Mueller probe. I am not on the "cheer-leading Mueller" side, but if there is enough to substantiate an investigation into something I would prefer that it happen so long as it does not turn into a witch hunt. If anything, let it happen to clear the name of the person being investigated.

My problem, though, is that some things that well should be investigated are ignored. Peter Strzok and Lisa Page anyone? Let our investigators be bi-partisan in the use of their resources.
 
Keene also helped lead a high-level NRA delegation to Moscow in December 2015 for a week of lavish meals and meetings with Russian business and political leaders. The week’s festivities included a visit to a Russian gun company and a meeting with a senior Kremlin official and wealthy Russians, according to a member of the delegation, Arnold Goldschlager, a California doctor who has been active in NRA programs to raise large donations.
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In a phone interview, Goldschlager described the trip as a “people-to-people mission,” and said he was impressed with Torshin — who, he noted, hosted both a “welcoming” dinner for the NRA contingent and another one.
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I do have to at least question the need for the NRA to do a "people-to-people mission" to Russia. I understand that it is a large enough organization that it may have to do business with foreign entities... but it is an American organization deemed the NATIONAL Rifle Association, not the International Rifle Association. I see no need to send delegations on week long trips to a country that has, traditionally, not been our ally and especially during a time period when we were at serious odds with Russia over Ukraine and Syria. That's... bad optics.

That's my biggest takeaway from the article. I'm not very pleased about this type of "outreach" by the NRA.
 
SonofaScubaDiver said:
Ok. I got approval from admin to post this link. The Russian in the middle of the investigation of the NRA has a history of shady dealings in other countries. It seems to me that one of two things happened---he either played the NRA or they knew what he was up to and accepted money from him anyway. I don't like the NRA, but I really hope it was the former and not the latter.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nati...195231139.html
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If you don't like the NRA, that's a fine link. It's also not a great way to learn about whether any legitimate campaign finance laws have been broken. It takes the reader through the investigation, but at this point that's just what it is.

Let's take it as a given that russians have involved themselves in our electoral process at least from 1932 onward. It hasn't generally been as brazen as it appeared in the co-ordination caught on microphone to tell Vladimir "after my election I will have more flexibility" and getting a "I stand with you" in return. Russians had money in every election in which Gus Hall was on the ballot.

Foreign nationals are not permitted to contribute to candidate campaigns. They are entitled to contribute to issue advocacy.

As the article notes, it is more than the FBI who are interested in investigating this.

Stone and Gordon said:
California Sen. Dianne Feinstein, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, sent letters in November to two senior Trump foreign policy aides, J.D. Gordon and Sam Clovis, seeking copies of any communications they had with or related to Torshin; the NRA; veteran conservative operative Paul Erickson; Maria Butina, a Torshin protege who ran the Russian pro-gun group he helped launch, and others linked to Torshin.
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As Bartholomew Roberts noted, the NRA is aware of its own audit history.

5Whiskey said:
Let our investigators be bi-partisan in the use of their resources.
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Mueller is not permitted to do that. His authorization is quite broad, but doesn't include bi-partisan breadth.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download
 
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My guess is FAKE news . Maybe not the investigation but how it got started . The fake reporting that goes on is staggering . I don't mean just by the media but the pure misinformation purposefully being released in order to get a reaction is mind boggling . Now a days someone can write something that is not true and it be repeated enough that it becomes true enough to start an investigation .

As far as "IF" this is true . The NRA is way to big with way to much money for this to stick . No way the NRA does not have enough money to show what ever money a Russian gave them never went to a politician . It would be like trying to prove planned parenthood uses tax dollars to fund abortions . They both have way to much money other places to pull from and just put the tax dollars/Russian money somewhere else .

Most are only going to read the head line rather then the actual stories . IMHO this is just another part of the ongoing attempt to slander the NRA . This is just to get people talking and lump the NRA into the Russian probe . You then can have guilt by association . You only leak when you have an agenda . Just ask Comey , he made it quite clear why he leaked info to a friend to then leak it to the press .
 
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Googled 'Trump Russia NRA' and got 8 million results. Lots of information there for anybody who wants to look. Names, dates, pictures, facts.
 
Googled 'Trump Russia NRA' and got 8 million results. Lots of information there for anybody who wants to look. Names, dates, pictures, facts.
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The FBI and FEC probably need to know that, could be just the clue to crack this case!
 
Everytown

I figured I'd go to the most Bias source , that way we can have the most extreme view on this and go from there .

https://everytown.org/press/everyto...ther-russian-money-went-to-nra-to-help-trump/

Everytown said:
McClatchy Reports That FBI Is Investigating Whether Russian Banker With Close Ties to Putin and NRA Illegally Funneled Russian Money to NRA During 2016 Election
NEW YORK – Everytown for Gun Safety today launched a new interactive microsite, Everytown.org/NRA-Russia, which details longstanding ties between the NRA, Russia and Trump world, as the FBI reportedly investigates “whether Russian money went to the NRA to help Trump” during the 2016 election.
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So they start out reporting what someone else has said .

Me said:
Now a days someone can write something that is not true and it be repeated enough that it becomes true enough to start an investigation .
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Everytown asks - Questions to ask the NRA

Everytown said:
1. Has the NRA received any money from Russia or Russian-linked individuals?
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First I ask is it illegal to get money from foreign countries or citizens of foreign countries ? If not then there is no need to ask the question .

Everytown said:
2. McClatchy reports that NRA spending during the 2016 election may have exceeded $70 million, but the NRA reported spending only $55 million (still far more than it ever spent on a previous election cycle). Will the NRA definitively say how much it spent during the 2016 election, and reveal if any money came from Russia or other foreign entities?
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Once again reporting on something someone else has said based on a secrete leak . Now the second part is worthy IMO of an answer but the motives of the question at this time are questionable IMO .

Everytown said:
3. Will NRA leadership fully cooperate with any FBI inquiries into its relationship with Alexander Torshin or Russian officials before and during the 2016 election?
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I guess that depends on who's definition of fully cooperate you use ? It seems more and more these days definitions are based on beliefs rather then the actual definition of the words or terms used . I'd like to see them cooperate and that's all I'm willing to ask of the NRA at this time .

Everytown said:
4. Did any NRA officials communicate with Alexander Torshin or any other representatives of the Kremlin about the 2016 election or the NRA’s support for Donald Trump?
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I think context would be important here . If the two sides did talk during 2016 . I can't imagine the election never came up . Very few of us had any lengthy conversations with people during 2016 and the election never came up . So what is the actual question ? If it's about the second part of question number two then it's already been asked so why have they repeated it in the form of a 4th question ?

I'm not saying I can't believe any of this . Just that we've seen how FAKE accusation have already been used in official ways to start investigations , obtain wire taps and spew propaganda ( and I'm not just talking the dossier , James Rossen comes to mind ) . At this point I can't believe any of it even when written in a official reports . The fact I will never see the actual evidence means I'm not sure how my skepticism can be subsided DTS .
 
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Once again - stay on the NRA. General investigations of political chicanery is not relevant to this forum.

Staff debated letting this topic run due the risk of wandering into political party warfare. If we go that way again, I'd regret shutting it down.

We thought discussing the NRA was worthwhile but not the other crap.
 
Here is a link to a story in the WSJ from March 23rd.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-the-nra-and-fake-news-1521761296

I stand by my position and every word I've typed in this thread.
People, we'd better get a clue and stand together united or we will lose more than can be reclaimed when the climate in this country finally swings more favorable.
It will swing more favorable to supporters of our Constitution and cause soon enough, in the mean time let's not screw that golden opportunity up eh?
We'll likely never be given another.
 
Let me clarify that...

WyMark, I do not honestly believe that you are part of the problem.
Though I also do not believe that "McClatchy has historically been pretty solid and accurate in their reporting".
We may differ in opinion, but are both members on the same team as I see it.
 
The issue is not if McClatchy is accurate in there reporting . I'm betting they are 100% accurate in reporting what they were spoon fed . The issue is if it was cohobated . It seems to me reporters use other news reports as there cohobating evidence rather then actual evidence . That's my point when I said something gets repeated so much it some how actually starts being reported as true .

Then you get Everytown and the like asking questions about things that aren't there . They fire up there base who then repeat the narrative as well as the questions . Before you know it there's a full fledged scandal based on nothing .
 
If the NRA has been too cozy with Russians, who probably have
ties to Vlad Putin, so be it.

If the NRA has not been too cozy with Russians, so be it.

Reports (OK discount all of them) that some NRA officials
have been wooed and dined in Russia by Vlad's minions.
And visa versa NRA officials have wooed and dined (OK
discount all of those reports too) Russians close to Vlad
in the U.S.
 
It's my understanding there are some in Russia trying to get an NRA type of group in to Russia against what Putin wants . Maybe Russia is meeting with the NRA to influence how much the NRA DOES NOT help that happen . There is more then one reason people may talk . The sad thing is we can't believe anything Russia says either .

This may just be away to get a secrete look at the NRA's books . It seems that's the new play book . Lie to the court to get warrants then spy all you can .
 
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