Not "should I shoot?" but "could I shoot?" That is the question.

No latin, but as close as I can get to semper fidelis

I have fired weapons in combat situations, am familiar with the emotional response and do not think that it would be any harder to rationalize/justify doing so to protect yourself/loved one/domicile than it is to protect "democracy" in a country that isn't interested in personal freedom. Just my $0.02...
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What you said above about democracy is true but its weekness is also its strength. As stupid as "we the people" can get sometimes at least we can make these mistakes without needing a revolution to fix them.....I hope.

Marines have had to endure and pay for in blood the stupidity of politicians and civilians, foreign and domestic, since they were founded. They suffered it with pride and faith that we would eventually get it right. All I can say to you and your brothers is GOD BLESS THE MARINE CORPS and THANK YOU! Keep the faith. We'll get there.

Where I live there's a meth dealer on every corner and a child molester in every neighborhood, and as has been posted by the OP things are probably going to be getting worse before they get better. For that reason I am armed and ready.
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Well, with you guys coming back theres going to be at least 10 marines for every meth dealer and probably one funeral for every child molester (just kidding but you know what I mean). 10 marines setting the example in every neighborhood is going to go a long way toward setting the neighborhoods and the politics in this country right. Mission isnt over yet I am afraid. Welcome home. We need ya here!
 
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Hey Glaxicus, glad I could make your day! I've spent alot of time thinking these things through, and continue to. I feel that having come from a profoundly anti-violence background, in which being anti-gun was just a fact without question, I've made radical strides, no pun intended. Fear gets on my nerves. Have I been fearful? As a victim of stalking, who has suffered profoundly as a result, yes. And let me tell you, the stalking, no matter how dangerous, was not nearly the problem that the fear it instilled was. Today I went grocery shopping. I grew up in the flatlands of Oakland and spent my college years as a pedestrian in SF. I know how to handle myself in public areas. Now I live in a seemingly safe and benign Idaho town, although there are violent criminal acts reported here occasionally. I should be posting this in the Parking Lot thread, but here I am. Keeping the thread in mind, I observed my surroundings, van parked next to my car, the guy just sitting in his car a few spaces down with the open drivers side door, the two loading groceries across the lane from me, my money on their being adequately armed, and I thought about the single most important safety feature to me in this parking lot, or any other for that matter, and it is unequivocally the absence of fear. I know to never allow myself to feel fear in the presence of Law Enforcement or BG's, just the same as around bees. I might be aware of risk, jeapardy, etc., but I always consciously control myself from feeling and therefore exhibiting any fear. I sincerely think my absence of fear in dangerous situations has saved my piddly little ar*e on many occasions. That said and out of the way, with all I've been through, I've been left with a sense of self righteous indignation. Will that be enough to let me pull a trigger when I need to? I don't know. I hope I don't find out. Unless I have to, in which case I hope to have practiced enough and visualized enough to be comfortable with my conscious gut level reaction to being intruded upon or violated in any way, which is to push back just harder than I got pushed, this is where you end and I begin, and it's a sacred place.
 
Here's more. Are there other correlaries one can draw from to determine one's ability to fire when needed? This makes me consider the different times I've been attacked, and my own different responses. The first time was a gradeschool duel, pre-arranged, with a boy a bit shorter than me, 7th grade. Students and teachers looked on, as we faced each other. He punched me in the eye. I remember thinking as this went down how incredibly stupid it was. I stood there and didn't hit back, end of story, one day missed from school. Then a couple of domestic incidents, each time with someone bigger, stronger, and way more crazed. I didn't fight back, and probably escaped without further injury as a result. Then, a stranger mugging. I was cruising semi-loaded down a street in the south of France with a friend who didn't speak French. An Algerian chick rushed us from behind, grabbing my over the shoulder money belt which was foolishly exposed. This ticked me off. My ensuing stream of expletives being in French, my friend thought the other woman was my friend. But she had my ticket home, my passport, phone numbers, and money. So I chased her down, screaming my head off, and tackled her on a busy roadway, holding her down in oncoing traffic and recovering my stuff. I was highly angered. Since then I've twice been attacked by drugged out wacko females. Each time my reaction was utter calm, and concern for my attacker and what was wrong with them, and I did not engage. They were in each case removed by their respective associates. Is there any way to know from the variables of one's own responses one's ability to appropriately hold or not hold fire?

I would hope to fire when necessary. My fears as I presently contemplate using deadly force are primarily around injuring someone who didn't have ill intent. In a home defense situation I cannot imagine not firing at someone I have determined to be a legitimate intruder. I'm really looking for any information to determine if not firing could present as a real problem, because if it could be I need to address it or having firearms in my home is going to put me and my kids at greater risk.
 
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Make my day

Hey Glaxicus, glad I could make your day!
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Just one minor thing first. Its Gaxicus.

I can really tell by your story that you have turned a corner. You have a lot of inertia pulling you toward the way you were before but you have twice as much will and conviction to counter it.

When the intertia finally starts pulling with you instead of against you its like being reborn isnt it? Good day to be in the parking lot eh?

Take your time with the decision about the gun if you can. Stick with your convictions about your new direction. Right now it is your "single most important safety feature". You should be proud of yourself. Congratulations. Enjoy your victory.

Gax
 
Thank you for the excellent advice, Gaxicus, and my apologies on my error. Got my CWP 11/05/08 and still haven't made a purchase, so you hit that nail on the head, and I am taking time growing in to my newfound enthusiasm. I just wish it was issued 11/04 ;)
 
What you said above about democracy is true but its weekness is also its strength.
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Not to stray from the point, but is this directed at the U.S.? Just curious because the U.S. is NOT a democracy. Again, not to stray, but if people knew what this country was founded upon, then we still wouldn't be saying that.
 
Not to stray from the point, but is this directed at the U.S.? Just curious because the U.S. is NOT a democracy. Again, not to stray, but if people knew what this country was founded upon, then we still wouldn't be saying that.
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It is a Republic based on Constitutional Law! Do I get a twinkie!?

sorry, back on topic.
 
Runs deep

Ginger-
I was highly angered. Is there any way to know from the variables of one's own responses one's ability to appropriately hold or not hold fire?
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Most of the time people do one of two things. What has worked for them in the past (whether it was good or not, sometimes taking a beating is sadly a method some use for peacemaking), or what they have to.

From what I can read you spent a lot of time doing what "worked" for you in the past. In france and in your new life you are doing what you decided you had/have to.

(pours us both a cup of coffee and leans in)

A word of caution. That inertia can run deep. Some women I have known that were atracted to and were attractive to abusive men had a real hard time understanding how the transition to their new life was effecting their love life and sense of femininity.

As you get more miles under your shoes in your new life it can be a catch 22 depending on where you are that day. Sometimes a guy that would normally be buying you a drink wont give you a second look and sometimes you cant keep the guys that have been traditionally "your type" away with a can of bear spray. It can be rough on a persons self esteem and hard to stay the course on your new life.

It takes time for the new you to develop a "type of guy" that is attracted to you and you are attracted to. No guys are better than the wrong guy. It will take time for you to start attracting and be attracted to the right kind of guy. Times they are a changin......go for it.

I have to throw some gun stuff in here to keep it topical so I will just reiterate my advice to take your time getting a gun if you can. This is about you and where you are. Keep it about that. Your new self will be your best protection until you are ready.
 
No slack.

Not to stray from the point, but is this directed at the U.S.?
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The orignial poster put the word democracy in quotes. I responded in with that in mind. Sheesh, like 5000 words today and you guys are bustin my bricks over this?
 
Post #16 bothers me. You shouldn't show someone a gun you can't use. If the other guy had been armed it would have been too bad.

Showing a gun can lead to bad things. I don't think someone should use a gun to win verbal confrontations. The old saying "don't point a gun at something unless you are willing to shoot it" is correct. Do you really want to shoot a guy for being a loud mouth. I would recommend staying in the car with the windows up or getting out and fighting.

If carrying a gun changes your personality leave the gun home.
 
I don't know how to quote here yet, but in response to your post, Gaxicus, there is alot of truth to what you are saying. I went through a phase of only dating LEO's, or affiliates, then a long phase of not dating at all. I'm good with it all. I'm an odd bird, to say the least, so I don't think it is even as simple as all that. I'm older now, and comfortable with myself. I've got a dog I love, and am really good with that. Ultimately, I would never let a man or any other for that matter give me my own sense of safety or take my own sense of safety. And that is the way it should be. I'm self reliant in every aspect of the word, and anyone I'd be attracted to going forward is going to have to be secure in themselves and not looking for a good guy or a bad guy crutch in me. How's that for stretching the thread topic :eek:

What you may touch on though, however inadvertently, is what I would assess to be in some victims - read survivors - a need to be sure they can hold fire, just as much as a need to be sure they can fire.
 
Leave home without it.

If carrying a gun changes your personality leave the gun home.
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Amen to that brother. How do we get the soccer moms to leave their minivans home. They might be the sweetest woman in the world in person but wrap that machine around them and its PAYBACK TIME!

Mostly joking but not quite
 
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Slinky

How's that for stretching the thread topic
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There are so few women here, and even fewer I havent offended, that a little flexibility is in order at least in my opinion. You posted some stuff I think others will/should find interesting that is plenty topical.
 
to clarify

I posted democracy in quotes because the term is unilaterally misused in modern society... there has not been a true democratic state since ancient Greece, and they only had the idea correct, not the execution.

However, I was referring to our republic's fascination with spreading "democracy" at the muzzle of a gun, not the political realities of living in this, the greatest country in the world.

That said, I was drawing a corollary to the instinct/urge to defend oneself being stronger than the compunction to defend an idea or way of life, not trying to start an off-topic political discussion, there are other threads for constitutional banter.
 
The BIG question

I can honestly say this is an open scab.
Several years ago when I was enlisted in the Marines I was faced with this same moral question. Could I shoot all those kids holding those AK-47s?
Some time ago the Albanian government set up a plan (pyramid scam) for the public to invest there life savings into the treasury and in return the government would build the investers new houses. The highest paying job there was $82 a month so this was a great deal to them. The govt. faulted on the plan and the investers were a bit upset. Needless to say police barracks armorys were ransacked and the public fought back. Seeing this the govt. made a public statement saying that it was the US then they turned the gun fire onto the embassy and the compound where the embassy workers lived in 6 digit homes.
The press say that there was no casulties but I beg to differ.
The parents came out at night and then they sent the children out during the day for supplies.
I had to sight in on a couple possible targets during the day.
The only possible positive thing that I have to say about my experience is that I lived another day to have married my beautiful wife and to have a full of life daughter which whom I would do it all over again for now.
The question shoud be do you believe in what you're fighting for.
 
I have a question. I've never had to shoot anything, so I'm wondering about the "freezing" being discussed, and if anyone can make an analogy to something I am experienced with, like driving, perhaps?
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I think freezing on the trigger is somewhat analogous to other high pressure situations, esp. those where your life is at stake. So a person who would freeze on the steering wheel as the car went into a high speed slide, would be likely to freeze on the trigger too. But I suspect individuals will vary - depending on the way the situation/threat impacts that bundle of cross-wired matter between the ears.

IMHO, if a person has a history of freezing in high stress fast moving situations, having a gun for self-defense may not be a good idea.
 
I thought about the single most important safety feature to me in this parking lot, or any other for that matter, and it is unequivocally the absence of fear. I know to never allow myself to feel fear in the presence of Law Enforcement or BG's, just the same as around bees. I might be aware of risk, jeapardy, etc., but I always consciously control myself from feeling and therefore exhibiting any fear. I sincerely think my absence of fear in dangerous situations has saved my piddly little ar*e on many occasions.
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Here is an article on the fear phenomenon: http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20090312/sc_livescience/humansrespondtoscentoffear
 
"Could I really shoot someone if I needed to?"

Anyone who is still struggling with that question and who is carrying a gun at the same time has absolutely NO business carrying a gun in my opinion.

They are a disaster waiting to happen, either to themselves or someone else.

The FIRST thing that anyone who entertains the thought of carrying a gun should do is some serious soul searching to answer that very question.

I did that back in 1986 in the months leading up to my 21st birthday. I concluded that yes, I could, and would, shoot someone who posed a threat to either me or someone I cared about, and I would do so unhesitatingly.


But if you (collective, not necessarily you specifically) are carrying a gun and are still wrestling with that question, I urge you to lock the gun in the safe and go to an alternative means of self defense until you come to a resolution.
 
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