Not an AR fan

again :confused:

I could have been actually DOA killed on the spot in the Toyota pickup truck as I traveled for multiple hours on a bad spindle at 70 mph; but that's neither here nor there. I lost a ball joint in a muscle car on the highway at speed once too, but the concept is the same- not the fault of muscle cars built in 1970 and it doesn't mean that muscle cars have bad ball joints. It means mine failed. Traced it back to bad heat treat on the castle nut (nut threads were still in the stud threads but the nut was gone- the nut ripped right off), but I digress

I'm not trying to convince you to love ARs. I'm just trying to understand your line of thinking

The same logistical conclusion would have a pistol enthusiast say that 1911 pistols are all garbage because he had one that malfunctioned, and there is a nice parallel between the AR pattern and the 1911 pattern in terms of multiplicity of manufacturers, ability for parts swaps, real chance for home gunsmithy, ability to assemble with out of spec new parts, etc, for both firearms concepts to back up that analogy
 
Hmm there is just as much a market for ARs as AKs, FALs or G3s. I have worked on a portugeuse G3 imported by century (but not made). The trigger pack needed a new hammer, and it was quite simple to install a new hammer, easier than most other systems. There is plenty of milspec and aftermarket parts and the cost to own, say an AR-10 is much more than a PTR-91 or a Saiga, all things considered.
 
Evil Monkey, the beautifully ironic intangible in your post is that in berating someone for not liking an ar-15 you single handedly validated the preceding posts regarding the "fanboy" mentality. Well done!
 
I don't care for them, mainly because I think the .223 is a near-worthless self-defense round. I prefer the .308. I know you can get an AR in .308, but why get a .308 AR when you can get an FAL or M-1A/M-14?
 
ARs run twice as dirty as even a G3, and have more manufacturing problems, plus Aluminum warps easily.
Click to expand...

Really??? Show me where the aluminum receivers in an AR warped in a situation where a G3 or M14 would have not also suffered catastrophic damage.

ARs are dirty guns, yes. I think that, more than anything, the gun dirtying the bolt up encourages maintenance that would prevent a gun from otherwise having a failure due to neglect.

The AR is also a lot easier to manufacture than a G3. G3s are much more complex in that they are roller lock weapons with precise timing and headspace requirements. An AR-15 will function fine with wider tolerances, and most cycling issues can be resolved with the cheap replacement of the buffer with one of a different weight.
 
The cylinder heads on my 462 cubic inch V8 are aluminum. Bolted to them are tubular headers. Those headers turn dull red when the car is at high speed. Heads haven't warped.

My supercharged car has aluminum heads too. No problems

My turbocharged car has an aluminum block. No problems

All three of those cars have aluminum pistons. No warping. The controlled explosions in the combustion chambers haven't damaged them at all

When materials are properly chosen for the application, there's no problem.
 
So will an AK, so why not use one of those? The round from an AK is more effective as well.
Click to expand...

The obvious answer is: why use anything that isn't the superlative. It's the same reason you mentioned above- you don't like the AR even though you can get it in a caliber you like, because you like something else more


There's nothing wrong with any of that
 
Evil Monkey, the beautifully ironic intangible in your post is that in berating someone for not liking an ar-15 you single handedly validated the preceding posts regarding the "fanboy" mentality. Well done!
Click to expand...

history has proven the flatop ar15 is the ultimate intermediate caliber infantry rifle that all others are either inferior to or are based on in the newer designs.

The ar15 is simply incredible and it has only been in the past decade that new designs have finally been made that exceed the ar15 package.

the ar15 was made in the 60's, go figure.

ARs run twice as dirty as even a G3, and have more manufacturing problems, plus Aluminum warps easily.
Click to expand...

what kind of garble is this? None of this is true.

HK roller delayed blowback systems are inherently dirtier than the ar15 direct impingment system. The HK system has no venting system.

AR15's are also easier to manufacture due to the extensive CNC use in the design. Building G3's, which require stamping and welding, is difficult to start up.

ar15 upper and lower receivers warp easily? Now that's a bunch of BS.
 
The obvious answer is: why use anything that isn't the superlative. It's the same reason you mentioned above- you don't like the AR even though you can get it in a caliber you like, because you like something else more


There's nothing wrong with any of that
Click to expand...

Fair enough, I agree. I was just throwing my hat into the ring. I truly don't care what rifle people want to buy :-).
 
Evil monkey, right there in your opening line you illustrated what I was talking about. You like it because its the "ultimate intermediate caliber infantry rifle". Are you infantry? I'm not. Lots of other people aren't either. Since we're not, possibly we can look past the fact that it is the weapon system of choice of our military? I like the ar platform; I love my bolt actions.
You are free & welcome to love the ar platform & own as many as your checkbook will allow. You are free & welcome to eat hot dogs at every meal & live in a rat infested single-wide trailer in a run down part of town so you can reallocate your dollars to buy more ar 15's if you see fit. But don't be surprised when we don't all follow with your lead.
Btw, for someone who claims to be so fully enamored with them, you should at least know when the damn thing was designed. Hint.....it wasn't the 60's.
 
Evil monkey, right there in your opening line you illustrated what I was talking about. You like it because its the "ultimate intermediate caliber infantry rifle". Are you infantry? I'm not. Lots of other people aren't either. Since we're not, possibly we can look past the fact that it is the weapon system of choice of our military? I like the ar platform; I love my bolt actions
Click to expand...

I'm only talking about how the ar15 system is superior to other select fire/semi auto infantry rifles. Bolt actions need not apply.
 
Chris: You compared cylinder heads to an AR? A cylinder head has water running through it to keep it from warping due to heat, and (in your case) 16 bolts in it. Aluminum heads warp all the time (usually due to mechanical issues) and pistons don't warp, they melt.

And if your headers start to turn red at high RPMs you need to richen your mixture a little or get more airflow through your engine bay... Headers shouldn't glow... I've been in Sprint cars and been around limited late models and after a 32 lap feature they don't even glow.

Anyway back to subject>>>>

Evil Monkey: I carried an M16A4 and I would under no circumstances call it 'superior'. It was a good rifle yes, it did what I wanted it too but also things I didn't want it to, which can be said against all weapons.

And how can you say that history has proven the flattop AR15? The The first time the AR platform saw the flattop upper was the M4, which isn't all that old (mid-90's?) to say 'history proven'. A history proven weapon would be something like the M2 'ma deuce'.

If the AR15 was truly the messiah of the rifle world, everyone would use them. It has it's ups and downs just like everything else. There is no such thing as a perfect weapon.
 
If the AR15 was truly the messiah of the rifle world, everyone would use them
Click to expand...

I know many of the worlds special forces use them rather than their native infantry rifle.;)

the ar15 is one of those rifles that makes it difficult to say "no, I can't make it work the way I want to."
 
I am not doubting their versatility by any means. Though I have never understood the LMG AR15 that I've seen some people build. You can buy anything and put anything on them from lasers, vertical grips, asphalt spreaders, snow-cone makers, and cotton candy spinners. I just have my doubts on it being the 'superior infantry rifle'.

And the reason they're popular with the special operations teams (mainly the M4A1) is because of their length and weight. Since the M4 is technically a carbine it would suit the Spec. op. team better than a full length rifle.

Like I stated, I'm not an AR hater. Just not understanding the hype behind them. :D
 
And the reason they're popular with the special operations teams (mainly the M4A1) is because of their length and weight. Since the M4 is technically a carbine it would suit the Spec. op. team better than a full length rifle
Click to expand...

The m4 isn't the only carbine in town.

I think the main reason why special forces love the m16 family is because they were the first rifles that were able to be purchased off the shelf with rails for mission specific customization. This was not possible with other rifles at that time, so the m16 became choice by default, and pretty much remains to this day.
 
I can totally see where that idea comes from and it makes sense but I think they could slap a railed foregrip on anything they want. I mean it's spec ops. they have a blank check to do whatever they deem needed.

Your idea makes a lot of sense but I'm not sure it's the real reason. I'm still going with the weight and length idea. But to each his own.
 
Well I love AR's and have not got a thing against them and have owned one for awhile. I finally found a Mac 90(tack cool stuff on it-no wood) in .223/556 so I would have compatible ammo. Now when I go to the range my AR sits in the safe and hasnt made it to the range in a long time. The Mak loves that steel stuff and .556 nato and at 100yds is just as accurate as my AR with open sites. My AR is not a cheapo either. Now on the eve of a gun show Im seriously thinking about selling it because I dont use it enough and the AK is just more fun to shoot to me and is not high maintenance compared to the AR. I could take that money and get a very nice Noinco 84s which only comes in .556. Ill have a tough decision in the morning!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top