No way the mighty 30-06 can be beat?
- Thread starter Bart B.
- Start date
Pathfinder45
New member
The 30-'06 is loaded to a lower pressure than the 308. With a modern bolt action it is entirely safe to handload ammo to the same pressure in the 30-'06 as would be maximum for a 308 or 270 Winchester. In that situation, the '06 increases it's lead over the 308. Most folks that say the 308 is equal to the 30-'06 don't take that into consideration. I think the two are only equal in the M1 Garand vs the M1A/M14 comparison. For really large and perhaps dangerous game, a 30-'06 could be loaded with 220 grain bullets, which if loaded with a sufficient charge of a slow burning powder to the same maximum pressure as the 308, well, I just don't believe the 308 could keep up at all.
I don't own either one. I'm a 270 guy.
I don't own either one. I'm a 270 guy.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
I only know from reading manufacturers' data, but the .308 is loaded to around 55,000 psi vs. the '06 at around 49,000 psi. That was a long time back, though. As a reloader, I've never paid all that much attention to factory stuff.
My pet '06 has a 26" barrel, so with handloads around 55,000 psi, I've seen physical evidence on steel at 500 yards that "Mine's stronger than yours!"
My pet '06 has a 26" barrel, so with handloads around 55,000 psi, I've seen physical evidence on steel at 500 yards that "Mine's stronger than yours!"
SPEMack618
New member
The big advantage I see to the .30-06 is the ability to load 220 grain projectiles.
That being said, the short action, carbine length .308 rifle has some advantages too, especially in police/military applications.
And besides, as devoted fans of the .30 caliber, regardless of flavor, we need to be more concentrated on keeping the poodle shooters at bay.
That being said, the short action, carbine length .308 rifle has some advantages too, especially in police/military applications.
And besides, as devoted fans of the .30 caliber, regardless of flavor, we need to be more concentrated on keeping the poodle shooters at bay.
As far as hunting rifles go that is.The Verminator
Moderator
I've had handloading 30-06 nuts swear they can get close to 300 magnum performance with hot handloads in bolt actions.
I believed them.....not so much because they were guys who usually told the truth, but because they complained about the recoil that accompanied the performance in such loads.....and preferred lighter loads most of the time.
Anyhow, you can't do that with the .308 as far as I know.
I believed them.....not so much because they were guys who usually told the truth, but because they complained about the recoil that accompanied the performance in such loads.....and preferred lighter loads most of the time.
Anyhow, you can't do that with the .308 as far as I know.
For me I love the 30-06. Its tied up in history, family the sort of thing that makes for family tradition in this case.
That does not mean I think the 308 is a lesser cartridge, 30-06 is where my heart is.
I can fully appreciate someone else having their heart with the 308.
I don't think there is any need to diss either one or if someone prefers one over the other there is something wrong with them.
None of us are a set of precision measurements, we aren't computers, we have our preferences, like and even dislikes.
I think we can all respect the others take on it.
Technically the 308 is superior, but to reach that (or show it) you have to be one heck of a marksman. Most of us never will or can't.
For most of us we would never know one way or the other and it doesn't matter.
its not like the 06 is a poor cartridge in any measure, its a fantastic cartridge that is slightly less capable to some degree than a 308, but we are talking the difference between a 4.0 student vs a 3.999 (my opinion the technical difference might be a shade more.
That does not mean I think the 308 is a lesser cartridge, 30-06 is where my heart is.
I can fully appreciate someone else having their heart with the 308.
I don't think there is any need to diss either one or if someone prefers one over the other there is something wrong with them.
None of us are a set of precision measurements, we aren't computers, we have our preferences, like and even dislikes.
I think we can all respect the others take on it.
Technically the 308 is superior, but to reach that (or show it) you have to be one heck of a marksman. Most of us never will or can't.
For most of us we would never know one way or the other and it doesn't matter.
its not like the 06 is a poor cartridge in any measure, its a fantastic cartridge that is slightly less capable to some degree than a 308, but we are talking the difference between a 4.0 student vs a 3.999 (my opinion the technical difference might be a shade more.
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
Any cartridge can be loaded to a higher pressure than its specs state then equal what a bit larger one of equal caliber to equal its standard muzzle velocity. It was common for military teams to pull the 147-gr bullets from 7.62 M80 ball ammo then replace it with the 172 gr. match bullet. That bullet then left faster in 7.62 Garands and M14 barrels than it did from 30-06 Garands with M72 match ammo. But with about proof load pressures.
Of course a .30-06 can shoot a given bullet out faster than a .308 with equal pressure and barrel length. With several rifles identical in all aspects except for chamber dimensions, the .308 was 30 to 40 percent more accurate. That happened in the late 60's and the 70's.
Any cartridge can be loaded to a higher pressure than its specs state then equal what a bit larger one of equal caliber to equal its standard muzzle velocity. It was common for military teams to pull the 147-gr bullets from 7.62 M80 ball ammo then replace it with the 172 gr. match bullet. That bullet then left faster in 7.62 Garands and M14 barrels than it did from 30-06 Garands with M72 match ammo. But with about proof load pressures.
Of course a .30-06 can shoot a given bullet out faster than a .308 with equal pressure and barrel length. With several rifles identical in all aspects except for chamber dimensions, the .308 was 30 to 40 percent more accurate. That happened in the late 60's and the 70's.
Bart B. First I'd like to acknowledge your expertise in the matter of firearms. I have read a lot of your posts and it's obvious you really do know what you're talking about.
But seriously? Nothing has changed? Even with better machining techniques and everything else? I find that statement...suspect.
Have you actually weighed that boat anchor!!! With barrels of equal length and contour pumps, semi's and lever actions are far heavier than bolt rifles. My heaviest bolt rifle, a 24" barreled 300 WSM weighs exactly the same as my Winchester 94 and is a good pound lighter than a 7600.
A 30-06 was my primary rifle for nearly 40 years. It will always be the standard by which almost every hunting rifle will be judged. I own several that I just have too much history with to even consider selling, but I'd not advise a new hunter to buy one.
Modern 308 loads beat 30-06 loads from the 1960's and older. Those were the loads that 30-06 built it's reputation on and if 308 beats them I can't see 308 giving up anything. While there is more documentation with 30-06 you can certainly load 200-220 gr bullets in 308 at slightly reduced speeds.
Anymore I'd advise 308 for virtually all hunting. If more bullet speed is desired the 30-06 just doesn't offer enough difference to justify the added recoil and heavier, more cumbersome rifles. A 30-06 will give you 2%-3% more speed, but with 20%-25% more recoil.
If we rule out only 4-5 animals on the planet, only 1 in North America, the 308 is more than enough out to around 400 yards. While the 30-06 offers 2-3% more speed with the same bullets, you really need a lot bigger gun than 30-06 if 308 ain't enough.
How is under 7.5 lbs a boat anchor?? (22 inch model is 7.5lbs) Being 6 ft. Weighing 215 lbs i have no issue with that. 
not to mention it looks nice to boot. Not your typical plastic fantastic. And it has much better sights than any marlin or wunchester lever...which basically suck.
not to mention it looks nice to boot. Not your typical plastic fantastic. And it has much better sights than any marlin or wunchester lever...which basically suck.hornady lists the 165gr bullet in .308 at 2600fps and the 165gr bullet in 3006 at 2900fps, that seems like over 10 percent not 2-3 percent. 308 drop at 500yds 66.1" zero 50yds- fps1692-fpe1049. 3006 drop at 500yds 49.5" zero 50yds-fps1926-fpe1359. i am able to get a little over 3000fps with 165gr bullet with rl-22 in a rem 700 with out exreme pressure. let me know when you get a 165gr bullet going at 3000fps out of your .308 eastbank.
About two or three years ago I did a little tyaste test comparing the 180 WW Powerpoint loads in the .308 Win. and 30-06. Guns used were a Winchester M70 push feed with 22" barrel and the 06 with a Remington M700 BDL with 22" barrel. The only difference in the two was the .308 had a 1 in 12" twist barrel and the 30-06 a 1 in 10" twist. Fairly nice day, litle wind and the temp right around 80 degrees.
Five rounds over the chronograph with the .308 ran a bit over 2600 FPS. The 30-06 didn't do any better and within 10 to 20 FPS of the.308.
For spits and grins, I also ran the 30-06 ammo though a custom rifle with a 1 in 12" twist 24" barrel and a Ruger #1 B with26" barrel. The custom did close to 2650 FPS for five rounds and the just a hair over 2700FPS from the 26" barreled Ruger. I'm kind of sorry I didn't have factory loads for both cartridges with the 150 and 165 gr. weights. Might have been quite interesting.
Over on Accurate Reloading in the reloading room there is a thread with pressure tested data for the 30-06 showing very high velocities and of course pressure. One of the powders tested was RE-17. Pressures reported were in the 65KPSI range and some a bit higher. Full details accompany the loads tested.
I firmly believe that the 30-06 is somewhat throttled back due to those low number Springfields. I can only say that data is interesting and I just may investigate it further.
Paul B.
Five rounds over the chronograph with the .308 ran a bit over 2600 FPS. The 30-06 didn't do any better and within 10 to 20 FPS of the.308.
For spits and grins, I also ran the 30-06 ammo though a custom rifle with a 1 in 12" twist 24" barrel and a Ruger #1 B with26" barrel. The custom did close to 2650 FPS for five rounds and the just a hair over 2700FPS from the 26" barreled Ruger. I'm kind of sorry I didn't have factory loads for both cartridges with the 150 and 165 gr. weights. Might have been quite interesting.Over on Accurate Reloading in the reloading room there is a thread with pressure tested data for the 30-06 showing very high velocities and of course pressure. One of the powders tested was RE-17. Pressures reported were in the 65KPSI range and some a bit higher. Full details accompany the loads tested.
I firmly believe that the 30-06 is somewhat throttled back due to those low number Springfields. I can only say that data is interesting and I just may investigate it further.
Paul B.