No Time to Rack the Slide

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Some bits and pieces: I've always figured that my thinking should be about what action to take, not how to do it. The "how to" should be reflex. That simplifies the whole deal.

Ronin Colman first exposed me to, "As you train, so will you perform," back in 1980 in a combat pistol course. Watching folks in IPSC competition proved him to be absolutely correct. Whether you call it "muscle memory" or "reflex", it's creating a pattern of behavior via repetition. (Hey, I was able to learn stuff even after over thirty years of messing with the 1911!)

For me, then, carrying cocked and locked removes any thinking about, "I gotta remember to rack the slide!" or, "I'm in trouble; what do I do first?" from the equation. I can stay focussed on the threat and on tactics. Simplifies the equation.

'As you train, so will you perform.": Don't change your pattern. If you normally carry with an empty chamber and change to carrying cocked and locked, your own training may have you draw, rack the slide--and watch a round fall to the ground, distracting you from what you really oughta be watching. And it just cost you 14% of your capability. The opposite scenario can be a real loser. Helluva note to go flatline because you thought it WAS loaded.

For those concerned abut clothing rubbing the safety to the off position, I note that while the extended thumb safety may be Tacticool, the standard old GI safety has far less lug protruding to do that rubbing. FWIW.

Just some notions...

Art
 
In all seriousness...what does that mean? That I should carry chamber empty because it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling? I guess I'm actually looking for a more defineable physical advantage which would be conferred by chamber empty carry.
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It means just that...what is your personal situation? That defines what is better. MLeake points out the number of ADs at the clearing barrel. If you are in a position that require clearing the chamber a lot, then chamber empty might be a better option. Of course the bullet design can also figure into that because of possible bullet setback. The gun you choose might be one with a particularly difficult 1st DA shot, and thus you get a faster, more accurate shot by racking the slide to get the first round out SA. There are all sorts of advantages and disadvantages to each mode depending on each person, their situation , the gun they carry, and so on. The trick is finding which advantages/disadvantages impact you and making a decision based on that.
 
How do you rack a slide one-handed?
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There are a number of alternatives, generally focused around using some part of the slide or sights pushed against something else. Depending on the gun it can be rather quick and easy or darned near impossible.
 
I'm coming late to this party, but I might as well through in my $0.02. I will always carry a 1911 in condition 1 (cocked and locked) for the following reasons:

[1] That's how I've been trained at schools such as Gunsite.

[2] I'm not going to count on have two hands available if I need my gun. I am more confident of my ability to clear my weapon safely than I am confident that I'll have the use of two hands in an emergency. The former is within my control, and the latter is not.

[3] I acknowledge that, statistically, the odds of me actually having to use my gun are minuscule. But based on my training I'm convinced that in the highly unlikely event that I do need to use my gun, the odds of needing to do so quickly are overwhelming. As I see it, the likelihood of needing to use a gun and the likelihood of needing to use it quickly are completely independent variables. The fact that I'm unlikely to need a gun is not, therefore, a good reason to carry a 1911 in other than a state of readiness (i. e., condition 1).

[4] Even though it is possible to rack a slide with only one hand, it is still slower than presenting a pistol carried in condition 1.
 
Irrelevant?

I think it's fair to say that there are MANY of us who are well trained in safe weapons handling, so I don't think it would be at all irrelevant to list statistics for numbers of AD's that happen solely due to weapon malfunctions.

(Note the number of military and LE backgrounds among the posting group)

Assuming we don't put our fingers on triggers prematurely, place weapons in improper containers with things that can switch off safeties and manipulate triggers, etc, how often do quality brand firearms actually AD?

I think that would be an entirely relevant statistic to this debate. My suspicion is that nobody has such stats at hand, and therefore anecdotal evidence is factoring in more heavily than it otherwise might.

With my C3 in a thumbreak holster, cocked and locked, I don't think the odds of an AD are even close to significant.

Having fended off an attack or two, human and canine, I can say that the odds of my having both hands free are entirely dependent on how quickly I note the situation developing. Sad to say, sometimes there are sucker punches (and silent bites) in life.
 
But the reality is that most people won't train it to the point that they are proficient at combatives like an Israeli Commando.
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The reality is that the Israeli doctrine developed specifically because of the large number of folks with very limited training, not becaue of those with particularly high levels of training.
 
I think it's fair to say that there are MANY of us who are well trained in safe weapons handling, so I don't think it would be at all irrelevant to list statistics for numbers of AD's that happen solely due to weapon malfunctions.
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But that directly ignores the fact that the overwhelming number of gun owners have minimal levels of training, much less anything approaching well trained. And of course it restricts the ADs to a very narrow category, those that happen solely as a result of weapon malfunctions. Seems you are already stacking the deck instead of looking at the broad issue.
Note the number of military and LE backgrounds among the posting group
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And we all know how few ADs occur in the military or LE!
Assuming we don't....
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But we do those things, and we do it a lot, so why would we assume otherwise?
My suspicion is that nobody has such stats at hand, and therefore anecdotal evidence is factoring in more heavily than it otherwise might.
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True, such stats are not collected. But I would venture a guess that even in this august company the number of AD/ND incidents far outnumbers the "and then I had to quick-draw my gun with only one hand" incidents. One source might be a look at the older NYPD SOP9 info. For example, in 1991, while there were 94 gunfights, there were 70 ADs. Given the fact that these guys were actively going out hunting fo the BG, I would suggest their gunfight chances would be much higher than non-LE. One might also assume the AD rate would be lower, based on greater training (either assumption is open to challenge, I realize, and is presented for general info discussion purposes only.)
 
David Armstrong worte:
The reality is that the Israeli doctrine developed specifically because of the large number of folks with very limited training, not becaue of those with particularly high levels of training.
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And because they had a variety of handguns, it made a standard drill for all of them impossible.
Empty chamber gun, draw, chamber round, fire, works for pretty much any auto out there.

FerFAL
 
Stacking the deck

David Armstrong wrote: But that directly ignores the fact that the overwhelming number of gun owners have minimal levels of training, much less anything approaching well trained. And of course it restricts the ADs to a very narrow category, those that happen solely as a result of weapon malfunctions. Seems you are already stacking the deck instead of looking at the broad issue.


Given the nature of the discussion, in a Tactics and Training forum, I think it's a fair assumption that the original question was asked with a well-trained operator in mind. Trying to answer that question for the gun owning population as a whole stacks the deck the other way, IMHO.

For a newbie gun owner or a do-the-minimum-to-qualify CCW, I wouldn't recommend a semi-auto in the first place, let alone a cocked and locked 1911. However, for those of us who train actively, and especially for those who train for potential hostile environments, cocked and locked offers distinct potential advantages, because there are times when the weak hand is busy or restrained.

With that in mind, statistics about the risk of carrying in cocked and locked, vs improper manipulation of controls, would be useful to the discussion.
 
Here are some scenarios when you should be locked and cocked:

1. You have been knocked down and are about to be shot

2. You have been knocked down and are about to be beaten with a blunt object

3. You have been stabbed and are down

4. You are at an intersection about to be car-jacked by an armed assailant (sp?)

5. You are at the barber shop and an armed robber points a gun at your barber's head

6. You are approched in the mall parking lot by three assailants

7. You are sitting quietly typing on your computer and the front door flies open

8. There is an intruder in your house, you are in your defensive position, and you do not want to give away your location and the fact that you are armed. All that intruder is going to hear before the blast is the click of the safety.

Cocked and locked is for people who are ready to defend themselves against iminant (sp?) death or serious bodily injury.

Not cocked and locked is for people who think the "Ka-Ching" sound is a good deterence to iminant death or serious bodily injury.
 
Why did we go to cocked and locked! I opine that cocked and locked is inherently dangerous due to significant number of times that folks forget to manipulate the safety. It happens to trained and practiced folks all the time. Watch the 1911 crew at matches with high level shooters. OOPS.

Thus the only gun to carry is the immediately shootable Glock series. :D
 
Glenn E. Meyer

Why not a SIG or CZ-75? From the DA neither one needs to have a safety turned off.

FWIW I have NEVER seen a person shooting competition forget to turn the safety off that was shootin a cocked and locked pistol. I have seen people skin a Beretta 92 and forget to turn the safety off, pulled a couple times turned and swept most of us watching with a hot weapon! He wanted to know why his pistol was broke? The guy never fired from the DA when playing at the range and rules were everyone had to use all safeties on the gun. OOPS.
 
I've seen high level shooters forget the safety and do the Oh, Poopy yelling dance several times.

With a Glock you have the ultimate handgun for simplicity of use and reliability. :D
 
Glenn E. Meyer

I hear ya on the Glock. I have owned a couple in the past and they just didn't do it for me. My buddy has two G19s and to tell you the truth if I liked them I would carry one. It is just an opinion, but I believe the G19 is second only to a full size 1911A1 for best pistol ever designed (23 for the 40 s&w fans).

Right now my two main carry guns are CZs that are either safety off DA or cocked and locked.
 
I've seen high level shooters forget the safety and do the Oh, Poopy yelling dance several times.
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That is why I prefer revolvers and DAO pistols. My Kahr and Sig have the greatest safeties ever made...a long trigger pull. There are no manual safeties to remember or forget. My Sig can be SA but I always carry it de-cocked.
 
I've never seen a 1911 shooter fail to properly disengage the safety either in competition or in training. I also find it passing strange that it seems like the only guys who I've heard claim to have seen such things like Glocks.

You guys use whatever you like. I'll stick with my 1911 in condition 1.
 
I also find it passing strange that it seems like the only guys who I've heard claim to have seen such things like Glocks.
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I have seen people forget to disengage a safety at the range many times...not just with 1911's but with all kinds of guns that have manual safeties and I am not a lover of Glocks.
 
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