No rapid fire !!!

one

Theres nothing at all wrong with one well placed shot
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Ain't that the truth.
I suppose that, if I have any complaint about "rapid fire" practice, it's that virtually all the shooters that I have seen over the years spend little time practicing precision shooting and a whole lot of time pumping rounds downrange.
Rarely do I see a shooter come to the ranges that I frequent (one of which I run) in NY and PA, who spend more than a few rounds - a cylinder or a magazine - trying for precise tight groups. The "precision" shooting that they do - the vast majority - is not good.
Don't misunderstand me, these are general comments about my observations over the years. I haven't seen anyone who has posted shoot and don't mean to imply that everyone who practices RF is a bad shot. I do mean to say that "slow" shooting and lots of it is way undervalued.
I wonder how SD practice would change if it were informed by the thought "I'm only going to get a chance for one good shot." Y'know...in that perfect world scenario, we are going to have time to empty the magazine, we are going to have time to clear a jam, we are going to have time to drop a mag and reload. Maybe not. Maybe all we'll have time for is one shot.
Pete
 
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More than likely because they don't want a bunch of yahoo's in there just blowing thru ammo. Most around here don't care if you do some double taps etc.
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Why would range owners care how much ammo somebody blew through? That's silly. It's because they don't want the target holders and ceilings shot up!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
I suppose that, if I have any complaint about "rapid fire" practice, it's that virtually all the shooters that I have seen over the years spend little time practicing precision shooting and a whole lot of time pumping rounds downrange.
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I practice both. In fact, before I start drilling with double taps and other rapid fire, the first thing I do is take two magazines and practice 1) slow precise two handed grip fire and 2) slow precise one handed grip fire. Obviously you need to constantly practice precision and smooth trigger pull.

When I said that firing one round every 5-10 seconds was a waste of time, what I meant was that if that's all you are permitted to do, it's a waste of time. Slow, precise fire has its place just like firing a series of double or tripple taps, speed drills, drawing from a holster, etc.

I can understand why commercial indoor ranges have such strict rules, but what I don't get is why outdoor private and/or semi-private ranges have any rules against practicing controlled double taps or tripple taps, or even controlled rapid fire at their pistol ranges.

There was one old man shooting at the pistol range at the range I belong to. I asked the guy if he minded if I practiced some double taps and tripple taps on the pistol range - about 10 spaces away from where he was shooting. He said "no, just slow shooting on this range, if you want to practice anythign other than slow shooting, you need to go to the plinking range..." Problem with the plinking range is that there aren't any target stands set up or any distances measured off - so it's not great for pistol practice. That's the kind of crap I can't stand, and thus why I have a bitter attitude toward old codger rule-sticklers who can't stand even controlled rapid fire!
 
I wonder how SD practice would change if it were informed by the thought "I'm only going to get a chance for one good shot." Y'know...in that perfect world scenario, we are going to have time to empty the magazine, we are going to have time to clear a jam, we are going to have time to drop a mag and reload. Maybe not. Maybe all we'll have time for is one shot.
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In combat type shooting, if you have time for one shot, you have time for three. ;)

I practice a lot of things. Some of it may be slower or faster than a lot of people, some things are things many people dont practice at all. Most things though, will not be allowed on most of the ranges I've been to, both public and private. Your skills usually have little to do with the reason why.

One simple drill is to draw from concealment and quickly fire one single shot, DA at 10-15 yards. Its mostly just to work on that DA trigger shot, but it also works on other things too. This is one of the results....

ry%3D400



Some are draw and fire double and triple taps.....

ry%3D480


ry%3D480


Some are for a totally different purpose, and happen at much farther ranges....

ry%3D400


And even then, rapid fire can have its place....

ry%3D400


That last one was shot with an AK at 200 yards using the iron sights and fired from a hasty, drop into cross legged sitting position at a steady cadence.

All the bullseye type practice confirms is, you understand and have a good grasp of the basics. Once you have that down, your basically just performing simple maintenance, and stagnating.

Shooting targets of varying shapes and sizes, with no aiming point, from realistic positions at varying distances, and varying speeds and tempos, be it rifle, pistol, SMG, shotgun, or whatever, shows you understand the basics and can apply them to real world situations, and on demand. The last part is really the most important. Anybody can have a great day now and then, its what you can do, "on demand", that shows you where you are. The key here is to realistic with yourself too.

Shooting static targets on a static, basically 90* range, is also stagnating. If you dont continually keep freshening and keeping your skills up, and as realistically as possible, all your doing is "kata".

If your total skill set is one great shot, what happens when you need two, or three, or as was said, your gun goes down, or runs dry, or you cant get it out at all?

We're only as good as we practice, and even the best practice is often lacking in many respects, but you do what you can do. In the real world, quick good, and often only so so, are usually better than slow great or perfect. I'll still take them if I can get them, but I'll still be very happy with decent too.
 
nice

Nice shooting.

if you have time for one shot, you have time for three.
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Not if the gun jams after shot one. It does happen; you have probably seen it happen.
Pete
 
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While it does happen, its usually not an issue with the guns I have and use, mostly because I wont have one that isnt reliable, and they get shot enough to confirm that they are.

Of course, Murphy is always about, and you do need to be ready for him. Thats why we practice our IA drills and why a BUG is also a good idea. If, for whatever reason, that first shot just happens to turn out to be one of my less than stellar shots, or there are more than just one target, and the gun stops, I'm already onto plan B, as I've already thought it out as best as I can and have worked on putting it into action before hand, so I dont have to wing it, or wing it as little as possible.

Since you seem pretty confidant about that first shot, whats your plan if your gun stops and things happen to not pan out as you thought?
 
What plan?

Since you seem pretty confidant about that first shot, whats your plan if your gun stops and things happen to not pan out as you thought?
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Plan?

Your question is a fair one. I don't have a plan. You are far more involved in and dedicated to effective preparation for "the bad thing" than I am. For my purposes and interests, there are many other points that need attention and those (mostly trying to shoot better scores with pistols and rifles and, with shotguns, hit more birds) come ahead of preparation for something that will most likely never happen (I know, I know....million to one things happen every day.)
I don't carry a back up gun and I don't carry a spare magazine or speedloader. The rationale is that, in a gunfight, I'd never get a chance to use either. I used to carry a single shot .45 Colt derringer. Moving with the times, I upgraded to a Glock 36 - six shots. It has never not worked so I continue on that basis.
When I do practice, it's at 3-5 yards, is point shooting only and is not terribly fast, maybe a shot a second when I'm in a hurry. But it is terribly careful; the shots on a silhouette are all center of the face shots - probably romanticizing there as that would be difficult to do in a SD situation even under the best of circumstances.
Pete
 
A good idea would be to line the ceiling with 1-inch thick iron so that if you accidentally shoot it into the ceiling it comes right back at you. Bet it only takes one time to learn.

Ben
 
I think it helps the facility maintain control.

If everyone's (including the range master's) voice was drowned by gunfire, no one would be able to hear instructions or warnings.

At my local pistol range, I am not even allowed to double tap.

If you have a valid reason for rapid firing, maybe you can ask your range for permission.
 
When would you use this "rapid fire" and waste ammo in a real self-defense situation?

Most likely you won't ... so don't get too bent about this...

You will have the use for double taps etc... so most places that I have been, have that sign but don't get bent about double taps.
 
Many places I've been to, double taps fall under their "2 second" rule, so they too are verboten. Rapid fire at "most" places means dont do anything even remotely realistic, unless your a bullseye shooter, and shooting at that rhythm and in that style.

I'm still not sure how rapid fire equates to wasting ammo too. Is this one of those things where those who think it does, cant shoot fast and keep their hits on target or are there other factors?
 
helps maintain control?

I tend to shoot at public, indoor ranges. There typically is no rangemaster unless somebody is observed through the plexi doing something obviously dumb, or unless somebody complains to management about somebody on line doing something dumb.

However, it does help less skilled shooters maintain control of their trajectories....
 
Steve1911 said:
When would you use this "rapid fire" and waste ammo in a real self-defense situation?
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If you're well trained and proficient, you're not wasting ammunition. You'll be getting good hits.

In real life, it may take more than two hits to stop the threat. Or there may be multiple threats that need to be attended to -- and quickly. It may indeed be necessary to fire multiple shots quickly and have them hit your intended target, and that takes practice.

Current doctrine is to keep firing until the threat stops. In recent classes I've taken, we've been shooting quick strings of 2 to 5 shots.
 
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