No rapid fire !!!
- Thread starter dougbull
- Start date
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
It's not crazy at all, it's geometry. If you have a 3 inch barrel that rises 1 inch then you would expect a 6 inch barrel to rise 2 inches and a 1 1/2 inch barrel to rise a 1/2 inch, all else being equal.
Much like a "click" on a scope is 1/4 inch at 100 yards and 1/2 inch at 200 yards.
To control muzzle climb during a rapid fire session, I have found 2 ways to deal with it. A compensator works fairly well, but what I found to be very effective is to try and get recoil hardened and you will eventually notice the muzzle not climbing as much. I know at the indoor range I go to, they have a G26 to rent and my dad also owns that model handgun and I know for a FACT that I CAN'T rapid fire that at the indoor range even if rapid fire is allowed there. Yet another form of common sense is to KNOW your gun and ammo. Just because you are shooting a 9mm doesn't mean it's going to have the same recoil. Shorter barrels cause more muzzle blast and therefore more muzzle flip. Also lightweight plastic guns will have a much quicker jerk than an all steel handgun such as an M9.
Kreyzhorse, I know EXACTLY what you mean about holes in the ceiling. However, those are mostly caused by rapid fire shooters who are sitting instead of standing. At my indoor range, if you are going to do that, you have to have a 2nd target attached to the bottom 1st target held by the clip and the shooter ONLY shoots at the bottom target. The range owner is really cool about it though. He isn't a jerk about it, he just waits until the shooter is done shooting and tells him the 2 target rule for rapid shooting while sitting.
Kreyzhorse, I know EXACTLY what you mean about holes in the ceiling. However, those are mostly caused by rapid fire shooters who are sitting instead of standing. At my indoor range, if you are going to do that, you have to have a 2nd target attached to the bottom 1st target held by the clip and the shooter ONLY shoots at the bottom target. The range owner is really cool about it though. He isn't a jerk about it, he just waits until the shooter is done shooting and tells him the 2 target rule for rapid shooting while sitting.
Housezealot
New member
now that you put it that way it seems pretty obvious!
I was just thinking about the additional weight, I guess thats a big duh to me
My $0.02.
"No Rapid FIre" is the sign they will point to as they eject someone for behaving like an irresponsible idiot who just sprayed a hail of bullets downrange in an obviously unsafe manner.
The ranges I frequent have ignored this sign when well-timed double-taps and other short bursts hit the target and the shooter's demeanor is otherwise calm, smooth and professional.
"No Rapid FIre" is the sign they will point to as they eject someone for behaving like an irresponsible idiot who just sprayed a hail of bullets downrange in an obviously unsafe manner.
The ranges I frequent have ignored this sign when well-timed double-taps and other short bursts hit the target and the shooter's demeanor is otherwise calm, smooth and professional.
The indoor range I go to allows rapid-fire, but with the caveat that you've got to actually be aiming (and, presumably, be hitting the target). Just saw a guy the other day practicing draw-from-holster double-taps with an instructor, in fact. A couple weeks ago, I saw some guy empty a magazine from a GSG-5 in rapid-fire, no comment from the RSOs, although I suspect .22LR isn't too hard to control.
I can definitely understand the reason for banning it - even at our relatively-sedate range, there's some clear evidence that people were hitting the walls.
I can definitely understand the reason for banning it - even at our relatively-sedate range, there's some clear evidence that people were hitting the walls.
Slow shooting a pistol is a waste of time. Why bother? What's the point of shooting a gun under a very low-stress, slow fire scenario? Find someone with a lot of land in the Country with a berm and practice various shooting drills. You just can't get comfortable with a gun by firing one round no faster than ever 5 seconds at stationary paper targets.
The indoor range I go to doesn't allow it. The range master looks the other way with people that frequent it that can control the guns.
Its the umm novice or umm other person that grabs a gun and pulls the trigger until the gun runs out that doesn't care where the bullets land. They try to control those people.
Its the umm novice or umm other person that grabs a gun and pulls the trigger until the gun runs out that doesn't care where the bullets land. They try to control those people.
oneounceload
Moderator
Waste of time? Are you serious???
Getting familiar with a gun is not done blasting away as fast as you can pull the trigger.........try shooting bullseye competition and how fast they shoot.....really......
Actually, your both right.
If all you practice is bullseye, thats all your going to be good at.
If your looking for something a little more practical and realistic, once you have the basics down, your going to want to speed things up. Just because you shoot fast, doesnt mean you have to be unsafe or inaccurate. Both do require practice to be proficient though.
I don't know many people who've been attacked by bullseys. But, I'll keep in mind that I should shoot really slowly if I'm ever attacked by one.
In all seriousness, I never said "pull the trigger as fast as you can". But practicing double taps, and some rappid fire, along with being able to draw your pistol are good practical exercises. These are things that need to be practiced and most range nazis won't cut you any slack, even if you've demonstrated you are an experienced shooter.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
One of my ranges has a no rapid fire policy. I asked the RO what exactly he meant as I wanted to draw and fire for some CC practice and he told me that was ok, but nothing more than three round burst was allowed.
Technosavant
New member
You're not going to be attacked by a paper target either. The argument "I don't expect to be attacked by a bullseye" doesn't hold water. None of us, barring MILES type military training, is able to practice in a way that properly reflects how the fights may go down.
Yes, rapid fire is useful practice, but their range, their rules. Referring to people who enforce adherence to stated rules as "range nazis" is disrespectful and foolish. There are those who consider adherence to such rules as "no weapon handling during cease fire" or "keep weapons pointed downrange" unnecessary since "I know what I'm doing." Public ranges assume that they will be visited by the most common denominator type of shooter, since that is in fact who often shows up. If you don't like it, as I said, find someplace else to shoot that fits your desires.
Around here, we have department of conservation ranges that are slow fire only. I still find them useful in working on sight alignment and trigger control. If I want to practice controlled pairs, I go to a different range. If I wanted to work on shooting while moving, there's other places yet I can visit. If you can't locate a place like that near you, I suggest talking to local IPSC or other practical shooting competitors and seeing where they practice. They'll know of someplace, I guarantee it.
As a range officer, the range I work at does not allow it due to insurance regulations on the public range. We have to conform to the "2 seconds between shots" rule. We also, by insurance regulation, do not allow shooters on the public range to open carry or draw from a holster. Weapons must be benched.
Now, that does not apply to the Police or training ranges which are separate from the public shooting area.
The 2 second rule applies to both pistol and rifle ranges open to the public.
Now, that does not apply to the Police or training ranges which are separate from the public shooting area.
The 2 second rule applies to both pistol and rifle ranges open to the public.
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I am a range officer at a local indoor range,and often serve as an ad hoc range officer at another outdoor range when I shooting as I am a regular there of many years. Both ranges have the rapid fire rule. Some of the reasons stated already are accurate as to they we have those rules. However, one major reason is the danger of rounds being send high or low and therefore out of the range or into equipment etc. inside the range that is not intended to be impacted by bullets. At our indoor range, you can come in and visually inspect the ceiling, walls, etc and you will see MANY bullet impacts in areas other than the backstop. These impacts are not caused by people carefully aiming shots at targets directly down range in front of the backstop. They are causes by rapid fire, non-aimed fire from people who are not qualified to handle a weapon in that manner. We spend good money every year repairing the roof, the steel baffles on the ceiling, repainting walls, etc.
At the outdoor range, rapid fire enhances the danger of sending rounds high over the berm to parts unknown.
At the outdoor range, rapid fire enhances the danger of sending rounds high over the berm to parts unknown.
I've shot my share of bullseye over the years. Its a very different discipline than active shooting, and other than reinforcing the basics, does nothing for you when it comes to other disiplines. It may only be a paper "person", but it does teach you a bit more than a rather sedate, 6 o'clock hold on a round black target with fixed aiming point, over and over.
Actually, these days, pretty much anyone can practice like this, even right in their own homes, and its cheap too. Its called Airsoft, and in many ways, its more realistic than MILES, as you actually get to use all your own gear, and a gun that realistically mimics your actual carry gun, and you get hit with something to boot when you screw up.
Not always. There are more than a few RO's who fit the "range nazi" thing, and I've run into more of my share of them, and a number of times, I was one of the other RO's on the range while they were there pulling their crap and I was sticking up for the targets of their ire. Just because the person is a range officer, doesnt give them the right to be a jackass, and more often than not, they become more of a problem safety wise, than the people they are harassing.
From what I've seen at many ranges, and understand talking to the owners and operators of them, insurance is the number one issue in most cases. This isnt just a rapid fire isuue either, and often goes as far as tell you what targets you can or cant shoot at, or anything that might be percieved as "bad".
Fear is also a very big issue. Mostly the fear the range will be shut down, and the need for fearful to try to appease those they are afraid of. If they feel your part of this is not conductive to their appeasing, you will become one of the targets of their ire.
Your best bet is to find a place that you can shoot how you want, and just bypass all the naysayers all together. It may take a little work, but you'll be a lot happier.
Then again, I do somewhat miss screwing with the "range nazi's", just to watch those veins in their necks pop out. How can pulling the trigger "once", be rapid fire? And the gun is not broken, it was made to shoot that way. Funny thing is, "they" cant seem to figure out how to work them, or keep the rounds out of the roof when they "try" to shoot them.
Stevie-Ray
New member
Whaddya know, I just found my long lost brother!KD5NRH said:
