No loaded guns allowed?

I beg to differ

briandg said:
ConThere is only ONE place in a shooting range where it is necessary to have a loaded gun. At the station, with the gun pointed at the target. Agreed?
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Not in my opinion.

If I go to the range and am also carrying concealed, I can shoot my other guns while the range is hot. I can even shoot my CC piece while the range is hot. I can reload it and reholster it while the range is hot.

What I cannot do is handle ANY loaded gun while the range is cold or anywhere other than the firing line.

It is tantamount to a concealed, holstered gun being given "non-gun" status.

Lost Sheep
 
I beg to differ with this one, too

wayneinFL said:
There is a measure of hypocrisy in profiting on laws that allow concealed carry in more and more states and in more and more venues, then prohibiting it in your own establishment. If you say people can't be trusted to carry because a loaded gun might come out of its holster and someone get shot- you're subscribing to the same philosophy that the anti-gunners use. All while making money on the fast growing concealed carry market.
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I don't think that's a philosophy("people can't be trusted.."). I think that's an assertion of fact. One that I believe is true. There ARE people who can't be trusted to carry a weapon, to drive a car or to procreate.

How we remove those rights defines what kind of a nation we are. But that's another discussion.

But that assertion (the trust thing) is not pertinent to the other half of that sentence _"a loaded gun might come out of its holster and someone get shot"). They can and do. Recently in Mesa, AZ a gun (Single action revolver) did fall out of its holster and fire.

All while making money on the fast growing concealed carry market.
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Are you suggesting that some people are pushing anti-gun laws in order to make money by selling concealed-carry holsters? It is possible, but seems a bit far-fetched to me.

wayneinFL said:
Loaded guns must be holstered or cased" is enough of a policy to keep things safe. It leaves room for property owners to be respectful of a right to carry, and leaves room for CCWers to respect your rights by keeping it holstered.
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You and I are in total agreement there.

Lost Sheep
 
Are you suggesting that some people are pushing anti-gun laws in order to make money by selling concealed-carry holsters?
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NO. Gun shops owners are pushing CCW laws, making money of sales of lighter, smaller, more concealable guns, money off holsters, money off mandatory training classes. They make money off CCW.

Some of these people are also against concealed carry in their stores. Because of safety concerns. This makes them hypocrites (sp.?) because they don't trust the same people who carry everywhere else. They don't trust the same people they are being paid to arm.

Funny thing is the anti-gunners cite the same "safety concerns". Look at the NIMBY thinking of the gun shop owners. They promote concealed carry on your street, in your neighborhood. They sell people the classes, guns and accessories to do it, but actually allowing them to do it in their business? :eek: Whoa! Hold on there, buddy! That's just crazy!

I understand they think there's a difference. But as long as the gun stays holstered, there's no reason CCW is any more dangerous in Bob's Gun Shop than Wal-mart.
 
Wayne, true....a private business can post "no guns", and according to Florida law, the sign itself "carries no force of law". But, it you are asked to leave for any reason, yes, you must leave.

Since I'm concealed, no anti-gunner knows to "ask me to leave" because of my gun. And, since they don't know to ask me to leave, and licensed carry is legal....I'm not breaking any laws...and am good to go.

The only exception to this practice is the gun-show, where they pay local police to part-time as security, asking about your weapons at the door. I don't make a habit of lying to the police, so I don't go to Florida gun-shows anymore.

Wayne; in addition, your 10:07 post is the gospel....
 
Just remember that when you sweep some one at the range and say "dont worry it isnt loaded."

I reminded that fellow that most shootings happen with an UNloaded gun.
 
I never sweep anyone with a barrel, loaded or unloaded, unless we're about to utilize lawful deadly physical force.
If a business wishes me to not carry inside, and posts a lawful sign, I will abide by that, and not shop there. That's their store and their policy. As for the city park, yes, I do own part of that with my taxes going to support the city/county/state and all it does. Government is NOT a corporation...they would have collapsed years ago if they were!:D
Yes I have the right to carry my sidearm as defined by the US Constitution and my state constitution plus relevant state law. The extent of this right as recognized by law is currently undergoing "discussion" at the District Court level, and will likely go to SCOTUS.
I respect your right as a business owner to control your property. Your control begins and ends at the front door. But, as the owner of a business, within your walls, I will either comply with your wishes or spend my money elsewhere, no ifs ands or buts.
 
This makes them hypocrites because they don't trust the same people who carry everywhere else.
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No, it doesn't. First off, CHL holders are not all that much safer than anyone else when it comes to responsible gun handling. Sorry, but the mere possession of a CHL doesn't mean someone's going to be safe with a gun any more than the possession of a driving license means someone's going to be safe with a car.

Second, the gun shop is a different environment than WalMart, Starbucks, or the local bookstore. People might carry guns in those places, but they're not handling them. That's an important distinction.
 
There is a measure of hypocrisy in profiting on laws that allow concealed carry in more and more states and in more and more venues, then prohibiting it in your own establishment. If you say people can't be trusted to carry because a loaded gun might come out of its holster and someone get shot- you're subscribing to the same philosophy that the anti-gunners use. All while making money on the fast growing concealed carry market
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my sentiments exactly
 
Second, the gun shop is a different environment than WalMart, Starbucks, or the local bookstore. People might carry guns in those places, but they're not handling them. That's an important distinction.
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I agree completely.

Another component that people leave out is the "peer pressure" stress that people sometimes feel in a gun shop.

Alot of people, when they come into a gun store, will feel intimidated/uncool and feel that they have to show that they know what they are doing to show their "knowledge". That can cause them to do something really stupid.

An automatic stress response is diverting blood from the extremeties to the core. This makes it hard to feel trigger fingers on the triggers and it makes it easy to become butter fingered.

Combine this with a loaded guns in the hands of a person with minimal training/gun handling skills who is trying to look like they do know what they are doing and it is an accident waiting to happen.

Unless I am in a "hot range" training environment with professionals or people I know well, I would prefer everyone keeps things unloaded unless it is pointed downrange.
 
No, it doesn't. First off, CHL holders are not all that much safer than anyone else when it comes to responsible gun handling. Sorry, but the mere possession of a CHL doesn't mean someone's going to be safe with a gun any more than the possession of a driving license means someone's going to be safe with a car.
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If it's in the holster, no one is "handling" in a gun shop or behind the line at the range. I've spent plenty of time in gun shops with signs that say loaded guns must be holstered or cased. I don't see people pulling loaded guns on the clerks any more there than I do at shops that ban carry altogether.

Second, the gun shop is a different environment than WalMart, Starbucks, or the local bookstore. People might carry guns in those places, but they're not handling them. That's an important distinction.
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I don't see the difference. You're not supposed to handle loaded guns in gun shops either. There's no more reason to draw a loaded gun in a gun shop than there is to draw it in Wal-mart. You'd likely be arrested in many states for pulling out a gun in Wal-mart to see if it fit in a pants pocket, in a holster, or see what kind of ammo you have in it. In the gun shop, you're doing this in front of someone who is most likely armed, so surprising the guy could have even more severe consequences than an arrest. So why would you do this in a gun shop?
 
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Ok.... several posts , I don't agree with for various reasons... but ....

Man in okla shooting at the range, 2 people approach him from behind and put a couple of bullets in him (one in the head) and steal his guns.

2 men, come into range / gun shop, and rob it of 4 guns. Then come back in 10 min later to rob it again.... they forgot to steal some ammunition. Later both were caught, both were 18 yrs old.

2 men, come up behind a single shooter at a range, and rob him of his guns... and leave.

As to it's "their property" , if they are open to the public... it's open to the public... and since it's legal to carry in a public place, I don't see your issue.

Here, there is a bill in the legislature, that if someone "posts" their business, then they have to have metal detectors, etc. to ensure the safety of anyone who enters, and that no BG's, etc. have guns in their either. In other words, if you take away someone's capability to defend themselves, then you are responsible for their safety while they are there.

At the gun ranges here, you can carry concealed while there, but the gun "remains" in the holster. There have been no issues with it.
 
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There was just recently the story of the knothead who shot a little girl in church while showing someone his carry weapon, churches now have an argument for why CC should be banned from those institutions. So now we got gun shops, gun ranges, private businesses and property who dont support CC, and churches that should be off limits to CC. Any others to add using this logic? Let's see where we "should" carry in the end...
 
Second, the gun shop is a different environment than WalMart, Starbucks, or the local bookstore. People might carry guns in those places, but they're not handling them. That's an important distinction.
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I believe that this is the difference. We may not plan to handle our CCW when we walk into the gun shop but if we have to wait for a lane and we see accessory x while we are waiting we may handle our weapon. Yes, we may unload it when we remove it from the holster to handle it but the act of unloading brings more risk into the picture.

A new gun owner may see his buddy in the gun shop and wants to show him his newest CCW. Unnecessary handling. While waiting for the range, the patron may see an available clerk and remember that he wants something to remove a spot of rust on his CCW and he shows the clerk the rust. Unnecessary handling.

I do believe that the average person "here" is more responsible than the average gun owner and is more aware but the truth is there are way too many people out there who are not as gun savvy as they think they are and they are the ones most likely to have an ND by "safely" handling their gun in a gun shop. I have no problem with a "no loaded gun on the premises" sign because it protects me from careless gun handling as much as the employees.

There is a much greater chance of handling a loaded gun in a gun shop than a Walmart or grocery store for many reasons. More handling = more chance of an ND by someone who is not versed in safe gun handling.
 
My range prohibits carrying loaded guns into the range shop and out to your bench, but nobody ever checks ... as for gun shows, the ones I've been to are jammed to the hilt; loaded guns IMHO are not a great idea in that kind of mob scene. At the shows in Austin, there's an Austin LEO, I assume off-duty and hired for the purpose, who checks guns you're bringing in for sale or trade and zip-ties the trigger and hammer so it can't be fired ...
 
when I go to the range I alternate my carry guns. So I'm always carrying even if I'm at the range, but I won't use whatever gun I'm carrying that day at the range.
 
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