No loaded guns allowed?

My gunshop has the sign, but they won't say anything to you if the gun is holstered on your body. carried in a case or otherwise in your hand, where it's intended to be handled while it's there (repairs, to sell, inspect, etc...), and they expect it to be unloaded.

But they don't have a range there, and none here do, so maybe it's different in that case. Can't comment there.

Daryl
 
The reason that most ranges have strict safety rules is that one accident were someone is injured or killed will put them out of business. They will be sued for every thing they have and if insurance pays, they will never be able to afford insurance again. The ranges that I shoot at all require that actions be open and guns unloaded other that on the shooting line.

There are still a few places locally that you can shoot on county land. They are strewed with trash and I will no longer shoot there because of the the chance of being shot.

Any of the matches that I have shot at also have strict rules and a violation will get you sent packing. If you are offended by safety rules and won't shoot where they are enforced, that's to bad don't shoot there. In my experience locally the people that think they are above following rules to use privet property are the same ones that shoot holes in the bench or roof and have accidents.
 
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I have quit going to one gun store for this very reason,the sign in big print says no loaded gun in the store.

When we were down at a range in Tenn they had weird signs up all over the place that said absolutly no rapid fire allowed yet had full auto guns that anyone could rent(it made no sense).

The latest gun show proved to me that at the very least should be a no loaded guns allowed venue.I got really miffed when i was standing in line behing this guy as he told the guy at the check in table that his gun was unloaded,only to find out that it was fully loaded and he and the check in guy were sweeping all of us trying to unload it.

As i approached the table myself i made sure to say something and then i handed him my unloaded gun(my mag was out and the slide was held back).So yea i say let gun shows be a no loaded guns allowed venue,we will all feel safer.
 
Insurance

I live in a subdivision with a home owners association.

We are in the process of switching insurance carriers and it is a negotiating battle with the company over their premiums and their requirments.

They made it a requirment that every home owner put in x-amount of ventalation in their attics, our HOA replied that is not "common" of the town home structures, they reply that ventalation affects the roofing which is a common structure... We eventually win that battle but our premium is raised. The insurance company then puts forth a requirment that every home owner put in x-amount of insulation in their attics, we go through the same battle and this time in the end we are able to hold the line and the company agrees not to increase the premium over this issue.

The insurance company then gives us a requirment that each owner must carry an home owners insurance policy that will cover the deductable of the association policy in case any particular homeowner causes a fire... The battle starts all over again.

We didn't have these particular battles over these particular issues with the last carrier. You really never know what a company is going to come up with in an attempt to limit their exposure to risk and losses.
 
It isn't only insurance, it also has to do with the fact people are dumb, and they seem to be multiplying.:mad:

How many people have you personally observed at a public range that bought a gun the day before and have absolutely no idea what they are doing? I have only been to public ranges a dozen times in my life and I have witnessed quite a few. Like a guy looking down the barrel to see if it was loaded.... :rolleyes: One of the reasons I stay away from them.;)

The groups that I train with and when I shoot it is a hot range. The people that are around follow the 4 rule religiously and I feel perfectly safe there.

Everyone isn't like us. A large percentage of people have no idea how to use a gun at all and sometimes they go to ranges/gun shows and handle guns. You usually can't tell by looking at someone if they know how to use a gun properly and the only way for proprietors of those establishments/event to make sure that the bad few don't do something stupid is to restrict all of us.
 
Everyone isn't like us.
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That's what some folks just don't get. I frequent a local mom-and-pop store that has nothing to do with guns. One day, they had a "no guns allowed on the premises" sign posted. I asked the owner about it, and he informed me that a guy had pulled a gun while talking to someone else and cranked a round off into the floor. He wasn't having that happen again.

That's in a place where people aren't even expected to be handling guns. Now consider a place where they are. I'd challenge folks to find a gun shop or range that hasn't had that happen once, if not several, times. We all pay for the sins of the lowest common denominator.

Now, do "no guns" signs work? Not really. We still hear of negligent discharges at gun shows, and at shops that prohibit carry. Still, having to deal with property damage and possible injury to customers or employees...yeah, I've considered posting before as well.
 
I once had a gun store owner, someone I respected (and still do) as a sensible, friendly, and knowledgeable guy, and someone who carries openly in his shop as do all his employees, freak because I was CCW-ing (legally) in his shop. :confused:
 
In some states a "no guns" sign in a store or other non-governmental establishment is legally meaningless.

Manners would probably require me to follow the wishes of the store owner on my NEXT visit, or stop shopping there. But manners would also probably preclude him from worrying about whats in my pocket (or holster). I guess it depends on how bad I want what they're selling. And whether I expect to go there again.
 
Don't Take it Personally - It's for the Other Guy

The "No loaded Guns" sign is not for you guys who KNOW and FOLLOW the safety rules, but to protect you from the multitude of people, who own and carry loaded firearms, who just don't get it. These people are not only a danger to themselves, but also to others. How many gun owners know anything about gun safety? Probably a minority.
 
Don't Take it Personally - It's for the Other Guy
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I DO take it personally. Most laws are passed to protect people from their own stupidity, and I have spent most of my life as a self-governing person (aside from a few crazy years when I was young, but even then I tried not to include others in my circle of damage).

I resent it when my liberties are limited because someone else can't control themselves.
 
I don't buy that the insurance companies dictate such signage. I have been in business for myself for 30 years and buying commercial insurance for that long, and I have never had an insurance company make any inquiry about firearms on the premises or firearm policies, or any other signage or safety issues besides OSHA compliance. Insurance companies deal with big blocks of customers, and they don't customize the coverage or restrictions on each business individually.

There is a real dichotomy when these complaints come up, in that the same forums that host threads denouncing such restrictions also host threads in which writers say they have witnessed dangerous mishandling of firearms. I don't agree that a well-trained and well-disciplined CCL holder should have to disarm, I am also aware that not everyone who goes to a gun store, range, or gun show is well-trained, well-disciplined, or licensed. Even though I might not agree, I can respect the fact that the proprietors are making a good-conscious effort at keeping themselves and their customers (including me) safe.
 
My range doesn't prohibit loaded guns for CHL holders, nor do they even check my range bag.

Gun shows; different deal---lots more people and guns in one place. Most of them are not CHL holders, and a certain percentage of them can be inattentive (or idiots). I have witnessed one ND at a gun show and hope not to see another.
 
Here ; no gun shops or ranges are posted against CC carry. There approach is simple, as long as it stays in the holster (unless you pull it out to shoot it on the range) , it's not an issue.

As far as loosely carrying a loaded gun in a range bag, you would get jumped on. You don't load until you are at the range and ready to shoot.

I carry .... while I"m shooting other guns I've taken with me to the range.
 
Most of them are not CHL holders
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There seems to be a mistaken perception that having a carry license/permit imparts someone with a clue about safe gun handling. Every harrowing safety violation, negligent discharge, and one memorable near-miss I've dealt with were from CHL holders. At some point in the post-reprimand conversation, they almost all use "I've got a license" as some sort of justification.
 
TailGator said:
I don't buy that the insurance companies dictate such signage.
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I agree about the general idea that an insurance company probably would not require (or even suggest) store policy. But I know that a local gun range owner told the main reason he closed was insurance costs.

What he did not tell me was his insurance company dictated specific safety procedures. But I can imagine they might have suggested guidelines.

Lost Sheep
 
My range has a guy at the front door to put a lock on your gun (Bass Pro Shop). When I get to the turnstile I just say "I have a CCW permit" and they let me through without even looking in my range bag or asking to see my guns.

In other places that have a "no guns" sign, I just ignore it. Concealed is concealed. In Missouri it is not a crime for me to carry in a place that has "no guns" signs. It becomes a crime if I am made and asked to leave and I don't.
 
Every time I've ever discussed this with a shop owner, the issue was that people would pull loaded guns out and start handling them. This is something people don't generally do in public places, even when CCW is allowed.

And most of them have been tolerant if permission was asked. A little "'scuse me while I whip this out" would have prevented it from being an issue.

I've heard the argument that the rule is made for the least common denominator. Unfortunately, society has the same rule for the least common denominator- that's why we find places like NJ or DC with such stringent rules.
 
My range doesn't allow loaded weapons anywhere but on the range, in the lane when you are fireing them. And that's okay with me. I'd much rather have some rules that will promote safety than simply assume that people will be safe on their own. My range is run by ex-LEOs and is used quite a bit by LEO's for practice. It's rare that there is not a LEO there when I am there. As far as I can tell they are abiding by the rules so I don't see why anybody else should complain.

The local Gander Mountain's policy is that you can carry in the store loaded as long as you keep the weapon holstered. So they basically follow the state law.
 
The indoor range/LGS I go to allows CCW holders to CCW, as long as the gun stays in its holster.

The first time I went there the range officer did a quick visual check of my gun cases. Once he saw that 2 of the pistols were carried unloaded, in a locked case, with empty magazines, and that my loaded magazines were in another case, he hasn't bothered me since.
 
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